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+----- Thread: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... (/thread-837065.html)
Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - JRsec - 12-12-2017 07:37 PM
https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/12/11/16741832/usc-pac-12-conference-realignment-lol
Maybe it will be the PAC that gets picked apart and maybe Texas and Oklahoma will do some of the poaching. Arizona & Arizona State have already expressed some angst as has U.C.L.A.
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - BadgerMJ - 12-12-2017 08:13 PM
(12-12-2017 07:37 PM)JRsec Wrote: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/12/11/16741832/usc-pac-12-conference-realignment-lol
Maybe it will be the PAC that gets picked apart and maybe Texas and Oklahoma will do some of the poaching. Arizona & Arizona State have already expressed some angst as has U.C.L.A.
The bottom line for college sports (especially football) in today's world is the old saying "money talks, bull-it walks". All things being equal, a blue blood program like SC might place more value on traditional rivalries, but when you're talking about smaller, non elite programs making MILLIONS more, it might be time for programs like SC to look out for #1.
I personally would LOVE to see if a phone call to made to Jim Delany might spur some interest.
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - megadrone - 12-12-2017 08:26 PM
(12-12-2017 07:37 PM)JRsec Wrote: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/12/11/16741832/usc-pac-12-conference-realignment-lol
Maybe it will be the PAC that gets picked apart and maybe Texas and Oklahoma will do some of the poaching. Arizona & Arizona State have already expressed some angst as has U.C.L.A.
Is this just speculation or has USC expressed any interest in leaving?
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - JRsec - 12-12-2017 08:44 PM
(12-12-2017 08:26 PM)megadrone Wrote:(12-12-2017 07:37 PM)JRsec Wrote: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/12/11/16741832/usc-pac-12-conference-realignment-lol
Maybe it will be the PAC that gets picked apart and maybe Texas and Oklahoma will do some of the poaching. Arizona & Arizona State have already expressed some angst as has U.C.L.A.
Is this just speculation or has USC expressed any interest in leaving?
The tweet posted in the article is from someone who is apparently a large backer. It's probably a talking point to try to force change with the PACN. Nothing like a threat to leave to force an issue like deciding to get FOX or ESPN backing for the PACN. Then the PAC might pursue Texa-homa or something similar again. But if not, I don't think the thought is necessarily a hollow threat.
I think it could get really interesting. Consider that if the current FOX / Disney deals go through that ESPN will wind up holding the T3 of the Big 12 and would be in a perfect position to handle the changing of the LHN into a viable Big 12N. That would create an even bigger gap in revenue between the PAC and the Big 12 making movement conceivable. Let's say Arizona and Arizona State were interested as well and U.C.L.A. decided to throw in with U.S.C.. That would put California and Stanford on the clock so to speak. The present PAC has 12 schools. If they dropped to 7 they would have a year to get back up to 8 or lose conference status. Remember their contracts are up in 2024-5 as well.
While not likely, it has, if the Disney/FOX deal goes through, moved into the realm of possibility. Besides when a conference, or one of its schools, doesn't want to accept the responsibility for making a potential threat they usually have one of their boosters do the talking, or a local beat writer. It's an effective way to send a message. So we'll see.
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - XLance - 12-12-2017 09:08 PM
(12-12-2017 07:37 PM)JRsec Wrote: https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2017/12/11/16741832/usc-pac-12-conference-realignment-lol
Maybe it will be the PAC that gets picked apart and maybe Texas and Oklahoma will do some of the poaching. Arizona & Arizona State have already expressed some angst as has U.C.L.A.
Misery loves company....the SEC needs to adopt both the PAC and the Big 12.
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - Stugray2 - 12-12-2017 09:42 PM
The big money at USC is research and the associations with the UC schools and UW. USC is not moving anywhere, as Sports are a pimple compared to that. USC like Stanford has so many big donors the can (and sometimes do) tell Billionaires to take a piss in the ocean.
California the institutional money is so much larger it would blow the minds of Southerners and Midwesterners. These are multi $Billion research machines. The athletic money is peanuts by comparison.
UCLA, Notre Dame, and Stanford are USC's most important football games, their biggest money draws. The Arizona schools are part "meh" USC fans don't like. To be honest they would rather be with Cal, Stanford and Washington than those teams to the East of them. The break away concept moves them farther from that base. Texas and Oklahoma are fine. But schools like Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, and TCU are as bad for fan support in SoCal as Utah, Oregon State, and Washington State. Realistically an Independent route is hopeless, and their late season schedule would look similar to BYU. The Pac-12 wont do them any favors for scheduling, so they will be bringing in UMass, BYU, and New Mexico State to close the season after the Notre Dame game. Playing UCLA in September is not the same (ask BYU about that with Utah).
As for scheduling issues in the league, this is a common theme from Washington, Stanford, USC and others. It is a big topic for Larry Scott to deal with. The Boosters will also have to get their own President to change his attitude on the P12N being primarily for Olympic sports to a model more like the B1G where MBB and FB are featured, and where an equity sale is made to a larger media partner. (Part of the reason they have so far refused to sell is because they want to have women's water polo, and men's tennis on TV before tens if not dozens of enthralled fans in the greater Los Angeles metro). They have much company in that thought.
But I expect, and so do many others out here, the P12 to start addressing scheduling issues (road game followed by a road Friday night game; byes for some schools before big games but not others ... USC benefited in the CCG this year), and to work on the P12N issues to switch emphasis away somewhat from water polo, soccer and golf. So far USC's President is just one of those in favor of the Olympic approach over maximizing dollars.
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - JRsec - 12-12-2017 10:29 PM
(12-12-2017 09:42 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: The big money at USC is research and the associations with the UC schools and UW. USC is not moving anywhere, as Sports are a pimple compared to that. USC like Stanford has so many big donors the can (and sometimes do) tell Billionaires to take a piss in the ocean.
California the institutional money is so much larger it would blow the minds of Southerners and Midwesterners. These are multi $Billion research machines. The athletic money is peanuts by comparison.
UCLA, Notre Dame, and Stanford are USC's most important football games, their biggest money draws. The Arizona schools are part "meh" USC fans don't like. To be honest they would rather be with Cal, Stanford and Washington than those teams to the East of them. The break away concept moves them farther from that base. Texas and Oklahoma are fine. But schools like Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, and TCU are as bad for fan support in SoCal as Utah, Oregon State, and Washington State. Realistically an Independent route is hopeless, and their late season schedule would look similar to BYU. The Pac-12 wont do them any favors for scheduling, so they will be bringing in UMass, BYU, and New Mexico State to close the season after the Notre Dame game. Playing UCLA in September is not the same (ask BYU about that with Utah).
As for scheduling issues in the league, this is a common theme from Washington, Stanford, USC and others. It is a big topic for Larry Scott to deal with. The Boosters will also have to get their own President to change his attitude on the P12N being primarily for Olympic sports to a model more like the B1G where MBB and FB are featured, and where an equity sale is made to a larger media partner. (Part of the reason they have so far refused to sell is because they want to have women's water polo, and men's tennis on TV before tens if not dozens of enthralled fans in the greater Los Angeles metro). They have much company in that thought.
But I expect, and so do many others out here, the P12 to start addressing scheduling issues (road game followed by a road Friday night game; byes for some schools before big games but not others ... USC benefited in the CCG this year), and to work on the P12N issues to switch emphasis away somewhat from water polo, soccer and golf. So far USC's President is just one of those in favor of the Olympic approach over maximizing dollars.
While I don't disagree about the research dollars dwarfing the sports revenue, the two are not in the same sets of revenue. A move of athletic affiliation doesn't alter the research money. The Cali schools and Washington will stick together anyway.
If things worked out ideally we would have something like this:
Big 12 / PAC
California, Oregon, Stanford, Utah, Washington
Arizona, Arizona State, Cal Los Angeles, Colorado, Southern Cal
Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Nebraska
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, Texas Tech, T.C.U.
Big 10 / ACC
Duke, Maryland, North Carolina, Notre Dame, Virginia
Boston College, Penn State, Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse
Indiana, Michigan, Michigan State, Ohio State, Purdue
Iowa, Illinois, Minnesota, Northwestern, Wisconsin
SEC / ACC
Kentucky, N.C. State, Tennessee, Virginia Tech, West Virginia
Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Georgia Tech, South Carolina
Alabama, Clemson, Florida State, Miami, Mississippi State
Arkansas, Louisiana State, Mississippi, Texas A&M, Vanderbilt
Out: Baylor, Louisville, Oregon State, Wake Forest, Washington State
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - bullet - 12-13-2017 09:44 AM
I don't think they would move, but I wouldn't be surprised if its been discussed moving the California 4 to the B1G. Probably the only way it might work would be going to 20 and using pods for football, rotating on a 3 year period (PSU/RU/MD/IU/PU, tOSU/UM/MSU/IL/NW, MN/WI/IA/NU/CU?, USC/UCLA/Stanford/Cal/UW?).
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - Wedge - 12-13-2017 10:55 AM
This is the Airplane Conference idea all over again. In 1959, when that idea was floated, it was at least possible because they didn't have today's rules requiring an FBS conference to sponsor an entire menu of varsity sports. In 1959, they were free to propose a football-only conference. Today, they're limited to all-sports conferences, and no one is going to send their other 20-plus varsity sports teams on regular 2,000 or 3,000 mile trips to play conference games or meets or matches or whatever. And no power-conference school that is extremely successful in "Olympic sports" is going to weaken their non-football sports by putting them into a conference whose members have $20 million budgets for their entire athletic department, and those schools wouldn't want a school with a $100 million athletic budget in their conference anyway.
Maybe someday the rules will change and football-only FBS conferences will be permitted again. That would dramatically change the lineup of conferences for football.
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - BadgerMJ - 12-13-2017 11:57 AM
(12-13-2017 09:44 AM)bullet Wrote: I don't think they would move, but I wouldn't be surprised if its been discussed moving the California 4 to the B1G. Probably the only way it might work would be going to 20 and using pods for football, rotating on a 3 year period (PSU/RU/MD/IU/PU, tOSU/UM/MSU/IL/NW, MN/WI/IA/NU/CU?, USC/UCLA/Stanford/Cal/UW?).
Sign me up for that!
Would love to see the Trojans roll into Madison and vice-versa every few years.
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - Stugray2 - 12-13-2017 01:26 PM
No. I think the things that will happen are
1. P12, B1G will join B12 in pushing for expanded playoff
2. P12 will be under pressure to make schedule more equitable
(e.g., Friday night road games after Saturday night road games saw USC, Stanford, UW all lose, killing P12 playoff)
3. P12 will review it's Olympics first P12N programming -- push coming to focus on FB and MBB like BTN, SECtv
(most Olympic programming registers a "0" market share, making BTN larger share in west coast ... wtf?)
Long term the California schools want expansion to reduce times they travel to four corner schools. P16 goal was to restore Pac-8 in a West division, give Arizona schools a Texas based division. (To be honest USC and UCLA had to bite the bullet on this, but were give permanent games with Cal and Stanford to alleviate this, but it weakened ties to Washington and Oregon).
Even a zipper with two additional schools would help, replacing two four-corner games with two in the Northwest, and it would even the burden with Stanford and Cal. But the TV and scheduling issues have to be fixed first.
Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - 1845 Bear - 12-14-2017 11:00 AM
Expanding the playoff IMO will stabilize the P5 for the most part.
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - Stugray2 - 12-14-2017 07:51 PM
Looks like the P12 is finally getting Chancellor/Presidential level look into
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/12/14/cal-chancellor-carol-christ-expresses-three-sets-of-concerns-about-the-pac-12s-direction-criticizes-the-conference-office-itself/
Cal's chancellor joins Washington State's President in critique of Larry Scott, the P12N, the scheduling issues, and the high HQ costs (higher paid execs than any other conference, much higher rent, very questionable too).
Note, Oregon State and Arizona State Presidents have given Scott a good review, but obviously there is growing opposition to the way he is running things. I think this POV will increasingly bubble up to the Presidents. The water is not boiling hot, but the temperature went up a notch for Mr. Scott.
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - ken d - 12-15-2017 08:58 AM
(12-13-2017 01:26 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: No. I think the things that will happen are
1. P12, B1G will join B12 in pushing for expanded playoff
2. P12 will be under pressure to make schedule more equitable
(e.g., Friday night road games after Saturday night road games saw USC, Stanford, UW all lose, killing P12 playoff)
3. P12 will review it's Olympics first P12N programming -- push coming to focus on FB and MBB like BTN, SECtv
(most Olympic programming registers a "0" market share, making BTN larger share in west coast ... wtf?)
Long term the California schools want expansion to reduce times they travel to four corner schools. P16 goal was to restore Pac-8 in a West division, give Arizona schools a Texas based division. (To be honest USC and UCLA had to bite the bullet on this, but were give permanent games with Cal and Stanford to alleviate this, but it weakened ties to Washington and Oregon).
Even a zipper with two additional schools would help, replacing two four-corner games with two in the Northwest, and it would even the burden with Stanford and Cal. But the TV and scheduling issues have to be fixed first.
I doubt that any of the Four Corner schools want to be in a Texas based division. And if they vote as a bloc on that, there would be no expansion. Travel to the Arizona schools is no worse than travel to the Northwest schools for the California schools. And how much difference is there in flying from LA to Colorado than flying to Seattle? Or worse, to Pullman?
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - Kittonhead - 12-16-2017 12:54 AM
This is pretty interesting with USC.
They could be comfortable in the WCC as the 11th member in that conference playing other private schools.
Growing independent ranks out there today. BYU can be an every year series. Could be a nice relationship. USC brings a draw to LA and BYU gains more national credibility in recruiting.
Could they sign a deal with NBC and be a double header with ND on Saturday's?
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - Wolfman - 12-16-2017 08:59 AM
The P12N is an easy fix. As much as they like Olympic sports on the west coast, there just isn't enough content to fill 6 networks, 24/7/365. That's over 1,000 hours of air time. Plus they have to compete with traditional networks, regional networks, pro sports, etc.. If you are a P12 president and are surprised that nobody is watching Arizona vs Utah volleyball at 3:00 AM, you should resign. The fix is do away with the regional networks. It was an interesting experiment but it failed.
The schedule is a little harder but can be fixed. It's kind of like wac-a-mole. You fix USC's schedule then Cal is out of wack. You fix Cal's schedule.... Still it can be done. I'm wondering if this might be a push to cut back to an 8 game schedule?
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - bullet - 12-16-2017 09:45 AM
(12-16-2017 08:59 AM)Wolfman Wrote: The P12N is an easy fix. As much as they like Olympic sports on the west coast, there just isn't enough content to fill 6 networks, 24/7/365. That's over 1,000 hours of air time. Plus they have to compete with traditional networks, regional networks, pro sports, etc.. If you are a P12 president and are surprised that nobody is watching Arizona vs Utah volleyball at 3:00 AM, you should resign. The fix is do away with the regional networks. It was an interesting experiment but it failed.
The schedule is a little harder but can be fixed. It's kind of like wac-a-mole. You fix USC's schedule then Cal is out of wack. You fix Cal's schedule.... Still it can be done. I'm wondering if this might be a push to cut back to an 8 game schedule?
Or simply reduce the number. 4 three school networks or 3 four school networks. They could double as overflow channels much like the SEC and B1G have overflow channels.
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - DawgNBama - 12-16-2017 10:12 AM
(12-13-2017 01:26 PM)Stugray2 Wrote: No. I think the things that will happen are
1. P12, B1G will join B12 in pushing for expanded playoff
2. P12 will be under pressure to make schedule more equitable
(e.g., Friday night road games after Saturday night road games saw USC, Stanford, UW all lose, killing P12 playoff)
3. P12 will review it's Olympics first P12N programming -- push coming to focus on FB and MBB like BTN, SECtv
(most Olympic programming registers a "0" market share, making BTN larger share in west coast ... wtf?)
Long term the California schools want expansion to reduce times they travel to four corner schools. P16 goal was to restore Pac-8 in a West division, give Arizona schools a Texas based division. (To be honest USC and UCLA had to bite the bullet on this, but were give permanent games with Cal and Stanford to alleviate this, but it weakened ties to Washington and Oregon).
Even a zipper with two additional schools would help, replacing two four-corner games with two in the Northwest, and it would even the burden with Stanford and Cal. But the TV and scheduling issues have to be fixed first.
Kind of a interesting development on this: the state of California has talked about putting in a bullet train(high speed) from San Francisco to Los Angeles. Expand the tracks north to Portland and south to San Diego & Phoenix, and travel time could also be reduced.
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - Kittonhead - 12-16-2017 12:18 PM
How many schools could pull off major independence?
USC-Large LA market and ND type history.
FSU-They have the appeal for it and geographic isolation.
Texas-Already has its own TV network.
OU-Big enough national brand.
Clemson is an average SEC school stuck in the ACC. They aren't a real national brand.
Crazy idea but could Texas/OU go indy and work out a deal with the AAC for basketball? They would be playing Houston, SMU, Tulsa, Wichita, Memphis in AAC hoops.
The options for FSU olympic sports seem more limited by comparison. CUSA might take them in for name value.
RE: Is All Well in PAC Land? Just How Disgruntled Are the Trojans? Stay Tuned...... - Kittonhead - 12-16-2017 12:26 PM
USC independence trigger.
USC (Indy, WCC)
PAC (Texas Tech)
Texas (Indy, AAC)
OU (Indy, AAC)
B12 (Colorado St)
MWC (UTEP)
CUSA (NMSU)
If Texas and Oklahoma were to leave the B12 for Indy/AAC would universities like Houston and SMU stay loyal to the AAC?