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[Serious] - So what do we do? - Kruciff - 10-04-2017 09:12 AM
Something needs to be done so that we stop having "The worst mass shooting in modern history" every year. "Thoughts and Prayers" aren't covering it any more.
I think the solution boils down to one of three options:
-Expand gun control (in what way remains to be seen)
-Expand medical coverage to provide for mental health issues (as well as raise awareness to lessen the stigma surrounding mental health)
-Expand TSA like security to all public events (concerts, hotels, sports games, conventions, amusement / theme parks)
I want to reinforce the [Serious] tag here folks. Let's make this a good one - LS!
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - Redwingtom - 10-04-2017 09:14 AM
The only viable solution is to outlaw all guns.
No, I'm not advocating for that. However, as long as guns are legal in the hands of every day Americans, you will never stop these things. And even without guns, they'd just find another way to murder.
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - gdunn - 10-04-2017 09:16 AM
(10-04-2017 09:12 AM)Kruciff Wrote: Something needs to be done so that we stop having "The worst mass shooting in modern history" every year. "Thoughts and Prayers" aren't covering it any more.
I think the solution boils down to one of three options:
-Expand gun control (in what way remains to be seen)
-Expand medical coverage to provide for mental health issues (as well as raise awareness to lessen the stigma surrounding mental health)
-Expand TSA like security to all public events (concerts, hotels, sports games, conventions, amusement / theme parks)
The last one wouldn't had prevented this.
Mental health... For this incident, has anyone came forth and stated he was mentally unstable?
Gun control.. I'm a gun owner, Hunter, etc., the only thing I question when it comes to firearms is why does anyone need an AR or AK. I've shot an AR but that was it. Don't feel the need to own one. Not my thing. I think for gun control we need to look at modifications we can legally make to guns and start there. Maybe start with the bump stock. Honestly I didn't know such a thing existed until a day or so ago.
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - 200yrs2late - 10-04-2017 09:25 AM
(10-04-2017 09:12 AM)Kruciff Wrote: Something needs to be done so that we stop having "The worst mass shooting in modern history" every year. "Thoughts and Prayers" aren't covering it any more.
I think the solution boils down to one of three options:
-Expand gun control (in what way remains to be seen)
-Expand medical coverage to provide for mental health issues (as well as raise awareness to lessen the stigma surrounding mental health)
-Expand TSA like security to all public events (concerts, hotels, sports games, conventions, amusement / theme parks)
Expanding medical coverage for mental health issues has merit. I don't know the means, but perhaps a diagnosis would automatically kick someone to a "high-risk" type pool so that the burden of cost isn't dropped on everyone's shoulders.
I'm all for better security at event, but I'm not willing to giving up a reasonable right to privacy or submitting to full body searches before entering the next ECU football game. I would think better training and more availability of snipers and spotters at outdoor events would be a decent start.
Security has gotten lazy at ECU football games. In three games this year I've yet to have been subject to more scrutiny than being eyeballed up and down. I've worn jeans, shorts, long sleeves, boots, flip flops, pretty much a full gamut of clothing options. They want ladies purses, but nothing so far this year would have prevented me from being very well armed in the stands.
ECU's Halloween party downtown has had spotter and snipers on rooftops for as long as I can remember going back 20 years now. Some years it seems like there are more than others, but I'd say on average they have had 3-4 snipers and another half dozen spotters on the rooftops covering a couple block area. I think it would have been beneficial had there been snipers at the concert above or behind the stage. It's possible they could have stopped the event very early, or at least provided the shooters location faster.
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - Kruciff - 10-04-2017 09:31 AM
(10-04-2017 09:25 AM)200yrs2late Wrote:(10-04-2017 09:12 AM)Kruciff Wrote: Something needs to be done so that we stop having "The worst mass shooting in modern history" every year. "Thoughts and Prayers" aren't covering it any more.
I think the solution boils down to one of three options:
-Expand gun control (in what way remains to be seen)
-Expand medical coverage to provide for mental health issues (as well as raise awareness to lessen the stigma surrounding mental health)
-Expand TSA like security to all public events (concerts, hotels, sports games, conventions, amusement / theme parks)
Expanding medical coverage for mental health issues has merit. I don't know the means, but perhaps a diagnosis would automatically kick someone to a "high-risk" type pool so that the burden of cost isn't dropped on everyone's shoulders.
Are Americans willing to do what is necessary to do that? The current administration keeps trying to push a bill to strip medical coverage, accessibility, and affordability.
As to increased security: I really hope the American people look at the TSA and the security details that exist today (and the abandonment of privacy and ease that comes with it) to find a better solution.
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - geosnooker2000 - 10-04-2017 09:32 AM
(10-04-2017 09:16 AM)gdunn Wrote: Gun control.. I'm a gun owner, Hunter, etc., the only thing I question when it comes to firearms is why does anyone need an AR or AK. I've shot an AR but that was it. Don't feel the need to own one. Not my thing. I think for gun control we need to look at modifications we can legally make to guns and start there. Maybe start with the bump stock. Honestly I didn't know such a thing existed until a day or so ago.
In keeping with the "serious" request of this thread, Please re-read the 2nd Amendment. Really read it. They were not talking about hunting. And to be honest, If I were a dictator (foreign or domestic), I would not be afraid of taking over a populace full of bolt-action rifles.
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - Kruciff - 10-04-2017 09:36 AM
(10-04-2017 09:32 AM)geosnooker2000 Wrote:(10-04-2017 09:16 AM)gdunn Wrote: Gun control.. I'm a gun owner, Hunter, etc., the only thing I question when it comes to firearms is why does anyone need an AR or AK. I've shot an AR but that was it. Don't feel the need to own one. Not my thing. I think for gun control we need to look at modifications we can legally make to guns and start there. Maybe start with the bump stock. Honestly I didn't know such a thing existed until a day or so ago.
In keeping with the "serious" request of this thread, Please re-read the 2nd Amendment. Really read it. They were not talking about hunting. And to be honest, If I were a dictator (foreign or domestic), I would not be afraid of taking over a populace full of bolt-action rifles.
I'd like a serious response to this question, because I've yet to really get one:
What difference does a bolt action semi-automatic rifle have over an AR or AK compared to an M1A1 tank, F22, drones, Tomahawk missiles, and cyber warfare?
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - SuperFlyBCat - 10-04-2017 09:36 AM
(10-04-2017 09:12 AM)Kruciff Wrote: Something needs to be done so that we stop having "The worst mass shooting in modern history" every year. "Thoughts and Prayers" aren't covering it any more.
I think the solution boils down to one of three options:
-Expand gun control (in what way remains to be seen)
-Expand medical coverage to provide for mental health issues (as well as raise awareness to lessen the stigma surrounding mental health)
-Expand TSA like security to all public events (concerts, hotels, sports games, conventions, amusement / theme parks)
I want to reinforce the [Serious] tag here folks. Let's make this a good one - LS!
Not much of anything to do really. More people are killed with knives and hammers than ARs. Vast majority of gun deaths are via hand guns, and most of those are suicides. FBI interviewed the Orlando shooter....3 times? San Bernadino, neighbors were suspicious but said nothing because they did not want to be thought of as racist or anti Muslim.
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - EverRespect - 10-04-2017 09:37 AM
(10-04-2017 09:16 AM)gdunn Wrote:(10-04-2017 09:12 AM)Kruciff Wrote: Something needs to be done so that we stop having "The worst mass shooting in modern history" every year. "Thoughts and Prayers" aren't covering it any more.
I think the solution boils down to one of three options:
-Expand gun control (in what way remains to be seen)
-Expand medical coverage to provide for mental health issues (as well as raise awareness to lessen the stigma surrounding mental health)
-Expand TSA like security to all public events (concerts, hotels, sports games, conventions, amusement / theme parks)
The last one wouldn't had prevented this.
Mental health... For this incident, has anyone came forth and stated he was mentally unstable?
Gun control.. I'm a gun owner, Hunter, etc., the only thing I question when it comes to firearms is why does anyone need an AR or AK. I've shot an AR but that was it. Don't feel the need to own one. Not my thing. I think for gun control we need to look at modifications we can legally make to guns and start there. Maybe start with the bump stock. Honestly I didn't know such a thing existed until a day or so ago.
Mental health - who is going to "seek help" if the result is you get constitutional rights taken away, or could get them taken away on a subjective opinion? Even if someone did come forward, I pose this scenario for argument: a guy goes through a divorce and custody trial and in the trial, the wife makes the claim that the husband is crazy, backed up by the assertion that he punched a hole in the wall during an argument... or that he is an alcoholic based on the assertion he got drunk at a party. Maybe her shrink agrees. Does he lose his rights?
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - Kruciff - 10-04-2017 09:40 AM
(10-04-2017 09:36 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:(10-04-2017 09:12 AM)Kruciff Wrote: Something needs to be done so that we stop having "The worst mass shooting in modern history" every year. "Thoughts and Prayers" aren't covering it any more.
I think the solution boils down to one of three options:
-Expand gun control (in what way remains to be seen)
-Expand medical coverage to provide for mental health issues (as well as raise awareness to lessen the stigma surrounding mental health)
-Expand TSA like security to all public events (concerts, hotels, sports games, conventions, amusement / theme parks)
I want to reinforce the [Serious] tag here folks. Let's make this a good one - LS!
Not much of anything to do really. More people are killed with knives and hammers than ARs. Vast majority of gun deaths are via hand guns, and most of those are suicides. FBI interviewed the Orlando shooter....3 times? San Bernadino, neighbors were suspicious but said nothing because they did not want to be thought of as racist or anti Muslim.
So your response to this is to do nothing? Even though gun deaths and mass shooting in this country, per capita, are greater than any other developed country in the world, and have increased every year since the 90's?
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - WKUYG - 10-04-2017 09:41 AM
You do know that other than banning all guns 50 years ago would have had any shot at stopping this shooting? Most likely even a ban on guns wouldn't have. Bad people find ways to get what they want. If you have the money and want...
you can get it from somewhere
Doing a strip search at all event would not have stopped this
I believe we have enough government in our life to give them even more power...like patting us down, searching our bags as we enter a hotel. But even then..the person just moves to a parking garage
Some things are just not preventable before they happen and a knee jerk reaction to give government more control over us will not change that. I am not a gun owner but giving government that right to ban is the first step in them controlling the other parts of our life
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - Kruciff - 10-04-2017 09:43 AM
(10-04-2017 09:37 AM)EverRespect Wrote:(10-04-2017 09:16 AM)gdunn Wrote:(10-04-2017 09:12 AM)Kruciff Wrote: Something needs to be done so that we stop having "The worst mass shooting in modern history" every year. "Thoughts and Prayers" aren't covering it any more.
I think the solution boils down to one of three options:
-Expand gun control (in what way remains to be seen)
-Expand medical coverage to provide for mental health issues (as well as raise awareness to lessen the stigma surrounding mental health)
-Expand TSA like security to all public events (concerts, hotels, sports games, conventions, amusement / theme parks)
The last one wouldn't had prevented this.
Mental health... For this incident, has anyone came forth and stated he was mentally unstable?
Gun control.. I'm a gun owner, Hunter, etc., the only thing I question when it comes to firearms is why does anyone need an AR or AK. I've shot an AR but that was it. Don't feel the need to own one. Not my thing. I think for gun control we need to look at modifications we can legally make to guns and start there. Maybe start with the bump stock. Honestly I didn't know such a thing existed until a day or so ago.
Mental health - who is going to "seek help" if the result is you get constitutional rights taken away, or could get them taken away on a subjective opinion? Even if someone did come forward, I pose this scenario for argument: a guy goes through a divorce and custody trial and in the trial, the wife makes the claim that the husband is crazy, backed up by the assertion that he punched a hole in the wall during an argument... or that he is an alcoholic based on the assertion he got drunk at a party. Maybe her shrink agrees. Does he lose his rights?
If the courts, judged by a jury of his peers, deems it so then yes. Likely, he will not lose his rights permanently, but could be fit, psychologically, at a later date.
This example raises up another argument about the rights of men vs. women in the court, which I personally think egregiously favors women, but that's another argument.
What if, in your example, the court is right? That he's mentally unstable and is at a risk to do harm? Would you want to put a gun in this person's hands? The same could be said if it was a woman instead of a man and I'd maintain the same answer. The last thing you should want in a messy divorce from either side is to give people the power of life and death in a state of high passion.
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - Hood-rich - 10-04-2017 09:45 AM
Gun control - Maybe? I really question the need for a bump stock. I'm not sure why anybody would need to have this unless you plan on mowing down a lot of people. Still seems like if somebody decides that they want to kill a lot of people then there are LOTS of ways to go about it that don't involve any kind of gun.
Mental Health - By all reports I've read, this guy showed zero signs of mental instability. So I'm not sure how expanding healthcare coverage to mental health helps in this case. FWIW, a lot of policies cover this anyway.
Increased Security - Could be the most effective but are we willing as a society to deal with this? The first thing I thought about when I heard he was in a hotel was... "How the hell did he get all of that up there?" Just the other day my cousin had walk all the way back to her car because she didn't have a clear purse. It will become a major pain in the a$$ that increases costs and keep more people away from large gatherings.
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - Kruciff - 10-04-2017 09:46 AM
(10-04-2017 09:41 AM)WKUYG Wrote: Some things are just not preventable before they happen and a knee jerk reaction to give government more control over us will not change that
They are preventable in every other developed nation in the world, except the most powerful nation in the world? I don't believe that argument.
Following this argument, though, you can apply this logic to every law the government passes.
Outlaw abortions? Women will find ways to abort fetuses anyway so why pass laws governing it?
Outlaw drugs? People will find a way to get the drugs they want anyway so why criminalize it?
Outlaw immigrants? They're going to find a way to get across that border anyway so why outlaw it?
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - bullet - 10-04-2017 09:46 AM
Security at these events is already pretty tight. Note that the shooter was NOT at the event.
If we outlaw guns, only the criminals will have guns. And those that don't will find other ways to kill. Certainly we need to look at things like bump stocks. Maybe look at liability laws for the next inventor who skirts the laws with something like bump stocks. We do need to look at our registration and purchase laws that are already on the books and see if we can implement them better or improve them.
Mental health is the key issue. Coverage is not the problem. Its identifying and dealing with the people who have problems. Its not easy to figure out how to do this. But its obvious we are doing poorly in dealing with these people and it seems like our society is creating too many of these people (although it would be good to have hard data on that).
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - bullet - 10-04-2017 09:48 AM
(10-04-2017 09:46 AM)Kruciff Wrote:(10-04-2017 09:41 AM)WKUYG Wrote: Some things are just not preventable before they happen and a knee jerk reaction to give government more control over us will not change that
They are preventable in every other developed nation in the world, except the most powerful nation in the world? I don't believe that argument.
Following this argument, though, you can apply this logic to every law the government passes.
Outlaw abortions? Women will find ways to abort fetuses anyway so why pass laws governing it?
Outlaw drugs? People will find a way to get the drugs they want anyway so why criminalize it?
Outlaw immigrants? They're going to find a way to get across that border anyway so why outlaw it?
ISIS is running rampant in Europe. It is not here. Those gun laws aren't helping them. We are doing better at controlling the killers (note: the guns are not the "killers").
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - Kruciff - 10-04-2017 09:48 AM
I just want to say while this thread stays on topic, I appreciate the people who have responded so far, and maintaining respect.
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - ARandomHerdFan - 10-04-2017 09:49 AM
I have never been to a Vegas casino, so I have no idea what kind of security procedures are in place.
That being said, I am curious about the changes that will be made in the wake of this tragedy.
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - Tom in Lazybrook - 10-04-2017 09:50 AM
There are things that can be done
1) Registration of all firearms with severe penalties for non-registration. Make all gun owners go to the authorities, take a firearm fingerprint, and register all authorized users for that firearm
2) An end to the no questions asked gun sales
3) Limits on modifications
4) Taxes on ammo
5) Strict liability for gun owners with real penalties. If a kid gets your gun and uses it to kill another person, then the owner of the gun should be held criminally liable and actually go to jail
6) Allow people to ban guns on their own property, including in cars in their parking lot
7) Ban the insane from having guns
8) Serious requirements for taking guns across jurisdictional lines
9) Make gun sale licenses contingent upon the history of criminal use of firearms.
10) Bans on special benefits for gun owners (such as use of CCL's as voting ID's)
RE: [Serious] - So what do we do? - SuperFlyBCat - 10-04-2017 09:52 AM
(10-04-2017 09:40 AM)Kruciff Wrote:(10-04-2017 09:36 AM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:(10-04-2017 09:12 AM)Kruciff Wrote: Something needs to be done so that we stop having "The worst mass shooting in modern history" every year. "Thoughts and Prayers" aren't covering it any more.
I think the solution boils down to one of three options:
-Expand gun control (in what way remains to be seen)
-Expand medical coverage to provide for mental health issues (as well as raise awareness to lessen the stigma surrounding mental health)
-Expand TSA like security to all public events (concerts, hotels, sports games, conventions, amusement / theme parks)
I want to reinforce the [Serious] tag here folks. Let's make this a good one - LS!
Not much of anything to do really. More people are killed with knives and hammers than ARs. Vast majority of gun deaths are via hand guns, and most of those are suicides. FBI interviewed the Orlando shooter....3 times? San Bernadino, neighbors were suspicious but said nothing because they did not want to be thought of as racist or anti Muslim.
So your response to this is to do nothing? Even though gun deaths and mass shooting in this country, per capita, are greater than any other developed country in the world, and have increased every year since the 90's?
Vast majority of mass shootings are via handguns. Per FBI definition.
If you want to compare the big scary stuff with ARs and full autos in Europe,
There were 55% more casualties per capita from mass public shootings in EU than US from 2009-15
https://crimeresearch.org/2015/06/comparing-death-rates-from-mass-public-shootings-in-the-us-and-europe/
The death rate via gun has dropped by 50% in the USA since 1994.