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Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - broncojohnny - 09-12-2017 07:10 PM
He could have had Wassink in every game we played last year for valuable experience.. We all know what he did.. I also don't buy the Flacko argument...The kids a runner.. Good option candidate...
I'll griot my teeth watching Wassink turn into a quality QB.....Growing pains are a *****...
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - Hoekjeness - 09-12-2017 07:17 PM
Wow.
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - Nacho - 09-12-2017 07:18 PM
Okay, I blame Fleck! Now what?
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - Hiller4Hyz09 - 09-12-2017 08:16 PM
alright chipdip, enough with the multi-ID's
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - toddjnsn - 09-12-2017 08:51 PM
Quote:He could have had Wassink in every game we played last year for valuable experience.. We all know what he did.. I also don't buy the Flacko argument...The kids a runner.. Good option candidate...
One of the issues about WMU last year was that for many of them, we weren't pounding away super-early with a Massive lead where we'd have plenty of time for backup QBs. Sure, we could have capped a couple last drives off with some, which we should have, but it wouldn't have done much.
Fleck had Flacco over Wassink -- so it would have been Flacco as "the" guy in there. Basically, Flacco would have gotten about the same amount of time his 1st season, last season. But Lester would have made him go anyway.
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - Chipdip2 - 09-12-2017 10:03 PM
(09-12-2017 08:16 PM)Hiller4Hyz09 Wrote: alright chipdip, enough with the multi-ID's
Yep. ya got me. Cause we all know, I'm the only guy who thinks Peej sucked at recruiting and developing QBs.
Call me Johnny from now on
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - wmubroncopilot - 09-12-2017 10:10 PM
Of course if there are holes on the roster the previous staff bears some responsibility.
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - Hoekjeness - 09-13-2017 07:00 AM
Blame them on 13-0, MACC, Cotton Bowl, Corey Davis, Darius Phillips, developing Zach Terrell, etc. but oh yeah it's all their fault they left us gaping holes on the roster. Man that sure sucks.
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - bronconick - 09-13-2017 09:20 AM
(09-12-2017 08:51 PM)toddjnsn Wrote:Quote:He could have had Wassink in every game we played last year for valuable experience.. We all know what he did.. I also don't buy the Flacko argument...The kids a runner.. Good option candidate...
One of the issues about WMU last year was that for many of them, we weren't pounding away super-early with a Massive lead where we'd have plenty of time for backup QBs. Sure, we could have capped a couple last drives off with some, which we should have, but it wouldn't have done much.
NC Central, Central, Akron, Ball State, Buffalo were ~40 point wins. Any coach planning for the future has their backup run the offense in blowouts when you have a 5th year senior QB.
Flacco had one (1) pass attempt in 2016.
I wonder what Fleck's plan was if Claeys didn't get involved in the player revolt before the bowl game. He got the last open job.
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - uclabruin - 09-13-2017 11:52 AM
(09-12-2017 07:10 PM)broncojohnny Wrote: He could have had Wassink in every game we played last year for valuable experience.. We all know what he did.. I also don't buy the Flacko argument...The kids a runner.. Good option candidate...
I'll griot my teeth watching Wassink turn into a quality QB.....Growing pains are a *****...
Long term, the Lester hire looks like the Nebraska coach hire. Good guy, solid person, stands for the right things, but my perception is that if we remain in the upper tier of the MAC as a contender, the administration will be happy with that. Don't mean to sound defeatist, but can't see a MAC team reaching the 2016 level year after year. Good news is with the publicity, new scoreboards, etc...it should be easy to recruit with the best in the MAC but probably not on par with Big 10 schools overall.
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - texasbronco1 - 09-13-2017 12:06 PM
Quote:Growing pains are a *****...
Wait.......what......you can't say ***** on this board? I was going to start a discussion about my friends female dog, but I guess I won't now. The ************ that run this board need to lighten the **** up..
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - brovol - 09-13-2017 12:20 PM
Playing subs is always a controversial thing, be that who to play, how soon do you get them in, and even how much it actually helps the players. If the question is whether our QB situation would be better today had Fleck gotten the backup QB in the games more often last year, the answer is a definitive no. The backup was clearly Flacco, and presumably he would have been the QB getting the mop-up time. I am fine with getting backup players in games, but you better have the game well in hand, because we all have seen games that were "over", and the team that had the game "won" ends up losing, with the coach looking like an idiot. Further, last season we were fighting for a high ranking, as it meant a LOT, and the clear reality is that if a MAC team doesnt win by a crap-ton it will be dismissed. I do not disparage our coaching staff for keeping that factor in mind, nor do I hold it against them for "playing for today" instead of next year.
Wassink had a bad game against MSU, and that had nothing to do Fleck not getting the backup in last year. It likely has more to do with the coaching he has had the past eight months, and those who prepared him for Saturdays game, and during training camp after selecting him as the starter over several other presumably quality QB's on the roster. Lester needs to own this too, and I'm sure he will. Wassink was a highly coveted QB out of HS, and was universally considered a blue chip recruit when Fleck got him. Nobody here or anywhere else suggested otherwise, and the kid had the benefit of practicing with one of the best QB's in school history (Terrell), and is now coached by perhaps the all time best WMU QB. He needs to be better, and I assume he will be, but his problems thus far are absolutely not because of Fleck.
I get the bitterness with Fleck, because I have it myself, but lets not get too many hundreds of thousand miles away from reality here. Fleck took us from an average MAC program coming off a dismal year, with very little excitement in the program, and took us to the frigging Cotton Bowl, in the middle of the national top 25, with better facilities, and tremendous enthusiasm; and he did it even after many of the "experts" on this forum laughed at his methods and ridiculed him, predicting that we would never win with him. Those same people want to trash him now, and that is fine if you are trashing him for the trashy stuff, but otherwise the guy did more than what we paid him to do, and the last several years were irreplaceable for this suffering Bronco.
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - Chipdip2 - 09-13-2017 01:07 PM
Brov, do you really think Peej and Chirroci were great QB coaches, and Lester isn't matching up in that regard?
Chosen over "several other quality quarterbacks on the roster."
Pray tell. Who were those other quality QBs???
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - 65Bronco - 09-13-2017 01:20 PM
(09-13-2017 12:20 PM)brovol Wrote: Playing subs is always a controversial thing, be that who to play, how soon do you get them in, and even how much it actually helps the players. If the question is whether our QB situation would be better today had Fleck gotten the backup QB in the games more often last year, the answer is a definitive no. The backup was clearly Flacco, and presumably he would have been the QB getting the mop-up time. I am fine with getting backup players in games, but you better have the game well in hand, because we all have seen games that were "over", and the team that had the game "won" ends up losing, with the coach looking like an idiot. Further, last season we were fighting for a high ranking, as it meant a LOT, and the clear reality is that if a MAC team doesnt win by a crap-ton it will be dismissed. I do not disparage our coaching staff for keeping that factor in mind, nor do I hold it against them for "playing for today" instead of next year.100% right. Last year was a dream season that we have never experienced before and possibly never will again. Fleck was a master at recruiting and got lucky with Northwestern and Illinois as our Big Ten opponents. Do you really think we would have been 13-0 with USC and Michigan State as our two big opponents?
Wassink had a bad game against MSU, and that had nothing to do Fleck not getting the backup in last year. It likely has more to do with the coaching he has had the past eight months, and those who prepared him for Saturdays game, and during training camp after selecting him as the starter over several other presumably quality QB's on the roster. Lester needs to own this too, and I'm sure he will. Wassink was a highly coveted QB out of HS, and was universally considered a blue chip recruit when Fleck got him. Nobody here or anywhere else suggested otherwise, and the kid had the benefit of practicing with one of the best QB's in school history (Terrell), and is now coached by perhaps the all time best WMU QB. He needs to be better, and I assume he will be, but his problems thus far are absolutely not because of Fleck.
I get the bitterness with Fleck, because I have it myself, but lets not get too many hundreds of thousand miles away from reality here. Fleck took us from an average MAC program coming off a dismal year, with very little excitement in the program, and took us to the frigging Cotton Bowl, in the middle of the national top 25, with better facilities, and tremendous enthusiasm; and he did it even after many of the "experts" on this forum laughed at his methods and ridiculed him, predicting that we would never win with him. Those same people want to trash him now, and that is fine if you are trashing him for the trashy stuff, but otherwise the guy did more than what we paid him to do, and the last several years were irreplaceable for this suffering Bronco.
We are back in the MAC now. We are not bad, we are not horrible like we were for a few years. We have a quality man as our head coach and while he may not live up to the same type of recruiting that we had in the past 4 years, I believe that he will be successful. He is a very honest, refreshing individual who seems to be coaching for the love of it, not necessarily to get to the "next level".
Rather than look at the past (and last year was WONDERFUL), let's look forward to now and the future where we hope we can be a force in the MAC rather than a low level team like WMU was for quite a few years.
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - AFLAGWA - 09-13-2017 01:40 PM
(09-13-2017 01:20 PM)65Bronco Wrote: Do you really think we would have been 13-0 with USC and Michigan State as our two big opponents?
Last years Broncos v this years Trojans and Spartans? I give us a punchers chance if not better. Last years Broncos v last years week 1 Trojans and week 2 Spartans...I think we do.
I know...just hypothetical either way, but...
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - Chipdip2 - 09-13-2017 01:53 PM
Totally disagree.
You don't develop a QB by holding him out. There were ample opportunities to get him snaps last year. He didn't, and the proof of his motive is that he played Flacco more the previous year than he did last year. Did Flacco get worse, or was Peej more interested in running up scores to complete his 4 year plan to get out of Dodge?
Fleck was never lookiing to the future of WMU, he was always looking to the future of PJ the film flam man.
Lester has no choice but to give Wassink a simple playbook, and make sure he doesn't destroy his confidence in 2 games. Of course the Flecktards think he should be throwing over the middle to that crowd of amazing receivers the Fleckster brought in.........so amazing that the backups are all true freshmen.
Name one WR the master recruiter brought in after Davis?
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - broncofan1 - 09-13-2017 01:55 PM
Up until the Minnesota job surprisingly opened up very late, Fleck and co. had every intention of being here this year. It's not like he emptied the tank.
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - brovol - 09-13-2017 02:03 PM
(09-13-2017 01:07 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: Brov, do you really think Peej and Chirroci were great QB coaches, and Lester isn't matching up in that regard?
Chosen over "several other quality quarterbacks on the roster."
Pray tell. Who were those other quality QBs???
I am not qualified to assess how good Fleck or Chirroci were at developing QB's, other than the QB we had for the last several years seemed to be pretty much in command of the offense, confident, accurate, and successful, despite not having a "strong arm" according to most of those who assess these things.
I have only two games to assess how Lester has "matched up" in terms of preparing Wassink. I thought Wassink looked composed and capable running the offense against USC, even if he occasionally looked bad throwing the ball, and had a lot of balls knocked down by offensive linemen. He looked flat out terrible against MSU. as I said before, I think our play calling put him in bad situations, because we forced the run on early downs too much, leaving Wassink in obvious passing situations, and he had too much pressure for a young QB. But, that game was a poor reflection on Lester & Co's preparation of Wassink. Its still early, and the scheduling of the first two games could not have been worse in m y assessment. But Wassink looked unprepared.
As for your second question, all of the other QB's on our roster, including those recruited last year by Lester, have been touted as being pretty talented. I believe you posted good things on at least a couple of them, no?
Fleck is not the reason we are 0-2. I'm not suggesting we would be anything other than 0-2 if fleck was our coach, but it certainly isn't his fault.
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - brovol - 09-13-2017 02:11 PM
(09-13-2017 01:53 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: Totally disagree.
You don't develop a QB by holding him out. There were ample opportunities to get him snaps last year. He didn't, and the proof of his motive is that he played Flacco more the previous year than he did last year. Did Flacco get worse, or was Peej more interested in running up scores to complete his 4 year plan to get out of Dodge?
Fleck was never lookiing to the future of WMU, he was always looking to the future of PJ the film flam man.
Lester has no choice but to give Wassink a simple playbook, and make sure he doesn't destroy his confidence in 2 games. Of course the Flecktards think he should be throwing over the middle to that crowd of amazing receivers the Fleckster brought in.........so amazing that the backups are all true freshmen.
Name one WR the master recruiter brought in after Davis?
I do not disagree with you on that (highlighted) point.
As for your other points, our other receivers last season were pretty good. Thompson was a transfer from Northwood, and was a very solid receiver. Henry was very good too.
Lester has been working with Wassink for many months. It isnt like he joined the team two weeks ago and doesnt know the playbook.
RE: Blame Fleck for part of this less than stellar start - Chipdip2 - 09-13-2017 02:18 PM
Well your honor, there are 2 true freshmen QBs, and I don't care what their credentials are do you really want to roll them out vs SC?
Beyond that the master recruiter left us two walk-ons.
He did a horrible job at recruiting QBs and WRs.