(04-16-2017 08:46 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 07:28 PM)Jackie Moon Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 06:07 AM)Obiwan Wrote:  Accountability starts with yourself .. making excuses only hides what one can change for themselves . I understand all of your hatred for JJ but this is ridiculous so not only will anyone be satisfied until JJ gets us to the sweet 16 he now is responsible for the behavior off the court as a father figure? Wow- if that is a standard you demand - then perhaps it's a good start as a Father needs to teach the hard lessons at times - Getting your act together is start .

The problem is these "kids" were recruited directly and hand picked by Jones himself. The fans, AD, President, etc. are not the ones bringing the players in. This is his work. If he can't find young men that can keep their nose clean and out of trouble, that is on him. If he can't keep multiple rule breakers (Talley) from continuing to break the rules, that is on him as well. He is the one taking risks by bringing these guys in. He is the one who is the face of the basketball program. He is the one responsible for making sure that his players excel not only on the court but more importantly off the court as well.

Nice post.

You would think from many of the posts on this board that JJ has nothing to to with anything and the basketball program doesn't even need a coach. Everything is the responsibility of the individual, and they are all going to do what they are going to do, on the court or off the court, regardless of who the coach is, or what said coach does. You just set rules and sit back and wait to see if everyone will follow them.

The defenses of every one of JJ's shortcomings by just saying "it isn't his fault" is becoming incredibly tiresome.

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(04-16-2017 08:46 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 07:28 PM)Jackie Moon Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 06:07 AM)Obiwan Wrote:  Accountability starts with yourself .. making excuses only hides what one can change for themselves . I understand all of your hatred for JJ but this is ridiculous so not only will anyone be satisfied until JJ gets us to the sweet 16 he now is responsible for the behavior off the court as a father figure? Wow- if that is a standard you demand - then perhaps it's a good start as a Father needs to teach the hard lessons at times - Getting your act together is start .

The problem is these "kids" were recruited directly and hand picked by Jones himself. The fans, AD, President, etc. are not the ones bringing the players in. This is his work. If he can't find young men that can keep their nose clean and out of trouble, that is on him. If he can't keep multiple rule breakers (Talley) from continuing to break the rules, that is on him as well. He is the one taking risks by bringing these guys in. He is the one who is the face of the basketball program. He is the one responsible for making sure that his players excel not only on the court but more importantly off the court as well.

Nice post.

You would think from many of the posts on this board that JJ has nothing to to with anything and the basketball program doesn't even need a coach. Everything is the responsibility of the individual, and they are all going to do what they are going to do, on the court or off the court, regardless of who the coach is, or what said coach does. You just set rules and sit back and wait to see if everyone will follow them.

The defenses of every one of JJ's shortcomings by just saying "it isn't his fault" is becoming incredibly tiresome.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

(04-16-2017 07:56 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  Unless things have changed since I was recruited (and played D1 ball), head coach doesn't vet the player, assistant coach does. Sure I got letters with the head coaches signatures all the time, but I dealt with one assistant coach at each school who were pursuing me.

Outside of the 5 schools I visited, I didn't meet with any of the head coaches.

(04-16-2017 10:21 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 08:39 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 01:37 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 09:38 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 06:07 AM)Obiwan Wrote:  Accountability starts with yourself .. making excuses only hides what one can change for themselves . I understand all of your hatred for JJ but this is ridiculous so not only will anyone be satisfied until JJ gets us to the sweet 16 he now is responsible for the behavior off the court as a father figure? Wow- if that is a standard you demand - then perhaps it's a good start as a Father needs to teach the hard lessons at times - Getting your act together is start .

Yes. Of course the coach is responsible for not running a program where kids are getting kicked off the team in quantities that are well beyond normal. His teams have had way more disciplinary issues than one would expect. If accountability starts with the individual, why does he escape his share?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Out of curiosity do you own a business? If you do how many strikes would you allow your employees to have?

If you don't own a business, I assume your employer has rules/guidelines that must be enforced. How many chances should you get if you break the rules?

At NO point have I implied that I think that kids are being kicked off the team when they don't deserve to be, I am pretty sure only one person has even beat that drum. In fact, I have said the exact opposite. I am more concerned with the fact that JJ is either recruiting too many idiots, or not doing a good enough job of engaging his team. Make all the excuses for why this isn't on the coaching staff that you want, but you just aren't being realistic. The fact is that healthy college basketball programs don't have this many suspensions and dismissals.

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I had a teammate who had a love for hot boxing... really good player (all conference first team good) and in 4 years never once failed a drug test. Want to know why? He never took one. He never got selected. On a team of 12 dudes that's pretty hard to never get picked. But our 11, 12 man seemed to always get picked........ my point the programs that aren't dismissing people tend to have really lax rules or choose not to uphold the sanctions for certain sports. It's how you wind up with situations like Baylor Football and Kansas Basketball

(04-16-2017 10:23 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 08:46 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 07:28 PM)Jackie Moon Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 06:07 AM)Obiwan Wrote:  Accountability starts with yourself .. making excuses only hides what one can change for themselves . I understand all of your hatred for JJ but this is ridiculous so not only will anyone be satisfied until JJ gets us to the sweet 16 he now is responsible for the behavior off the court as a father figure? Wow- if that is a standard you demand - then perhaps it's a good start as a Father needs to teach the hard lessons at times - Getting your act together is start .

The problem is these "kids" were recruited directly and hand picked by Jones himself. The fans, AD, President, etc. are not the ones bringing the players in. This is his work. If he can't find young men that can keep their nose clean and out of trouble, that is on him. If he can't keep multiple rule breakers (Talley) from continuing to break the rules, that is on him as well. He is the one taking risks by bringing these guys in. He is the one who is the face of the basketball program. He is the one responsible for making sure that his players excel not only on the court but more importantly off the court as well.

Nice post.

You would think from many of the posts on this board that JJ has nothing to to with anything and the basketball program doesn't even need a coach. Everything is the responsibility of the individual, and they are all going to do what they are going to do, on the court or off the court, regardless of who the coach is, or what said coach does. You just set rules and sit back and wait to see if everyone will follow them.

The defenses of every one of JJ's shortcomings by just saying "it isn't his fault" is becoming incredibly tiresome.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I assume you have a kid or two in college or soon to be in college....... who do you plan on blaming when they cheat in a class or get into a fight or get high or get a DUI...

(04-16-2017 10:28 PM)Lion Pride Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 08:46 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 07:28 PM)Jackie Moon Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 06:07 AM)Obiwan Wrote:  Accountability starts with yourself .. making excuses only hides what one can change for themselves . I understand all of your hatred for JJ but this is ridiculous so not only will anyone be satisfied until JJ gets us to the sweet 16 he now is responsible for the behavior off the court as a father figure? Wow- if that is a standard you demand - then perhaps it's a good start as a Father needs to teach the hard lessons at times - Getting your act together is start .

The problem is these "kids" were recruited directly and hand picked by Jones himself. The fans, AD, President, etc. are not the ones bringing the players in. This is his work. If he can't find young men that can keep their nose clean and out of trouble, that is on him. If he can't keep multiple rule breakers (Talley) from continuing to break the rules, that is on him as well. He is the one taking risks by bringing these guys in. He is the one who is the face of the basketball program. He is the one responsible for making sure that his players excel not only on the court but more importantly off the court as well.

Nice post.

You would think from many of the posts on this board that JJ has nothing to to with anything and the basketball program doesn't even need a coach. Everything is the responsibility of the individual, and they are all going to do what they are going to do, on the court or off the court, regardless of who the coach is, or what said coach does. You just set rules and sit back and wait to see if everyone will follow them.

The defenses of every one of JJ's shortcomings by just saying "it isn't his fault" is becoming incredibly tiresome.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

As are all of the comments that JJ needs to go no matter what he does, who transfers, the players that don't meet expectations or not winning the conference. I doubt he will ever satisfy some who voiced there displeasure with his hire from day 1.

(04-16-2017 07:56 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 07:28 PM)Jackie Moon Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 06:07 AM)Obiwan Wrote:  Accountability starts with yourself .. making excuses only hides what one can change for themselves . I understand all of your hatred for JJ but this is ridiculous so not only will anyone be satisfied until JJ gets us to the sweet 16 he now is responsible for the behavior off the court as a father figure? Wow- if that is a standard you demand - then perhaps it's a good start as a Father needs to teach the hard lessons at times - Getting your act together is start .

The problem is these "kids" were recruited directly and hand picked by Jones himself. The fans, AD, President, etc. are not the ones bringing the players in. This is his work. If he can't find young men that can keep their nose clean and out of trouble, that is on him. If he can't keep multiple rule breakers (Talley) from continuing to break the rules, that is on him as well. He is the one taking risks by bringing these guys in. He is the one who is the face of the basketball program. He is the one responsible for making sure that his players excel not only on the court but more importantly off the court as well

Unless things have changed since I was recruited (and played D1 ball), head coach doesn't vet the player, assistant coach does. Sure I got letters with the head coaches signatures all the time, but I dealt with one assistant coach at each school who were pursuing me.

Outside of the 5 schools I visited, I didn't meet with any of the head coaches.

(04-17-2017 05:10 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 07:56 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 07:28 PM)Jackie Moon Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 06:07 AM)Obiwan Wrote:  Accountability starts with yourself .. making excuses only hides what one can change for themselves . I understand all of your hatred for JJ but this is ridiculous so not only will anyone be satisfied until JJ gets us to the sweet 16 he now is responsible for the behavior off the court as a father figure? Wow- if that is a standard you demand - then perhaps it's a good start as a Father needs to teach the hard lessons at times - Getting your act together is start .

The problem is these "kids" were recruited directly and hand picked by Jones himself. The fans, AD, President, etc. are not the ones bringing the players in. This is his work. If he can't find young men that can keep their nose clean and out of trouble, that is on him. If he can't keep multiple rule breakers (Talley) from continuing to break the rules, that is on him as well. He is the one taking risks by bringing these guys in. He is the one who is the face of the basketball program. He is the one responsible for making sure that his players excel not only on the court but more importantly off the court as well

Unless things have changed since I was recruited (and played D1 ball), head coach doesn't vet the player, assistant coach does. Sure I got letters with the head coaches signatures all the time, but I dealt with one assistant coach at each school who were pursuing me.

Outside of the 5 schools I visited, I didn't meet with any of the head coaches.

Dang man, you always have somewhere else to pass the buck don't you? So who do we fire, Stith or Richardson?

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(04-16-2017 10:58 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 10:23 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 08:46 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 07:28 PM)Jackie Moon Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 06:07 AM)Obiwan Wrote:  Accountability starts with yourself .. making excuses only hides what one can change for themselves . I understand all of your hatred for JJ but this is ridiculous so not only will anyone be satisfied until JJ gets us to the sweet 16 he now is responsible for the behavior off the court as a father figure? Wow- if that is a standard you demand - then perhaps it's a good start as a Father needs to teach the hard lessons at times - Getting your act together is start .

The problem is these "kids" were recruited directly and hand picked by Jones himself. The fans, AD, President, etc. are not the ones bringing the players in. This is his work. If he can't find young men that can keep their nose clean and out of trouble, that is on him. If he can't keep multiple rule breakers (Talley) from continuing to break the rules, that is on him as well. He is the one taking risks by bringing these guys in. He is the one who is the face of the basketball program. He is the one responsible for making sure that his players excel not only on the court but more importantly off the court as well.

Nice post.

You would think from many of the posts on this board that JJ has nothing to to with anything and the basketball program doesn't even need a coach. Everything is the responsibility of the individual, and they are all going to do what they are going to do, on the court or off the court, regardless of who the coach is, or what said coach does. You just set rules and sit back and wait to see if everyone will follow them.

The defenses of every one of JJ's shortcomings by just saying "it isn't his fault" is becoming incredibly tiresome.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I assume you have a kid or two in college or soon to be in college....... who do you plan on blaming when they cheat in a class or get into a fight or get high or get a DUI...

If I had a bunch of kids, and several were having those issues, one might be wise to point a finger at me. You keep treating every suspension and dismissal as a one off, but the reality is there is a trend.

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(04-16-2017 10:55 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 10:21 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 08:39 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 01:37 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 09:38 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Yes. Of course the coach is responsible for not running a program where kids are getting kicked off the team in quantities that are well beyond normal. His teams have had way more disciplinary issues than one would expect. If accountability starts with the individual, why does he escape his share?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Out of curiosity do you own a business? If you do how many strikes would you allow your employees to have?

If you don't own a business, I assume your employer has rules/guidelines that must be enforced. How many chances should you get if you break the rules?

At NO point have I implied that I think that kids are being kicked off the team when they don't deserve to be, I am pretty sure only one person has even beat that drum. In fact, I have said the exact opposite. I am more concerned with the fact that JJ is either recruiting too many idiots, or not doing a good enough job of engaging his team. Make all the excuses for why this isn't on the coaching staff that you want, but you just aren't being realistic. The fact is that healthy college basketball programs don't have this many suspensions and dismissals.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I had a teammate who had a love for hot boxing... really good player (all conference first team good) and in 4 years never once failed a drug test. Want to know why? He never took one. He never got selected. On a team of 12 dudes that's pretty hard to never get picked. But our 11, 12 man seemed to always get picked........ my point the programs that aren't dismissing people tend to have really lax rules or choose not to uphold the sanctions for certain sports. It's how you wind up with situations like Baylor Football and Kansas Basketball

You are going to a bit of an extreme with the Baylor/Kansas comparisons. If you belief that our issues with discipline are truly related to a heightened level of accountability in the program, there are still like 300 schools between our level of accountability and that of Kansas/Baylor.

Beyond that, if JJ is a man of such high integrity (I actually believe he is... in a good way), he needs to focus on recruiting players who can live up to his lofty standards in order to avoid the breakdowns that we are seeing... we can be William & Mary, which from our current place would be an improvement.

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(04-16-2017 10:33 PM)Jackie Moon Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 07:56 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  Unless things have changed since I was recruited (and played D1 ball), head coach doesn't vet the player, assistant coach does. Sure I got letters with the head coaches signatures all the time, but I dealt with one assistant coach at each school who were pursuing me.

Outside of the 5 schools I visited, I didn't meet with any of the head coaches.

Come on man really? Are you seriously trying to tell me that Jeff Jones only meets with recruits on their visits and doesn't have significant interaction with those recruits that don't? That is word for word what you just said.

This whole Jeff Jones apology train is comical.

(04-17-2017 06:36 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 10:33 PM)Jackie Moon Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 07:56 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  Unless things have changed since I was recruited (and played D1 ball), head coach doesn't vet the player, assistant coach does. Sure I got letters with the head coaches signatures all the time, but I dealt with one assistant coach at each school who were pursuing me.

Outside of the 5 schools I visited, I didn't meet with any of the head coaches.

Come on man really? Are you seriously trying to tell me that Jeff Jones only meets with recruits on their visits and doesn't have significant interaction with those recruits that don't? That is word for word what you just said.

This whole Jeff Jones apology train is comical.

Actually it's not word for word what I said. I said that outside of the schools I visited I didn't deal with the head coaches. Dude if you think head coaches have the time to vet all the players being recruited you are clueless.

Basically a head coach is like the CEO they leave the vetting to HR (i.e. Assistant coaches).

But maybe my recruiting process was different then yours. What level were you recruited at?

(04-17-2017 08:17 AM)Maryland Monarch Wrote:  Even if what you say about assistants doing the vetting is true.

(04-16-2017 10:55 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 10:21 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 08:39 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 01:37 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 09:38 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  Yes. Of course the coach is responsible for not running a program where kids are getting kicked off the team in quantities that are well beyond normal. His teams have had way more disciplinary issues than one would expect. If accountability starts with the individual, why does he escape his share?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Out of curiosity do you own a business? If you do how many strikes would you allow your employees to have?

If you don't own a business, I assume your employer has rules/guidelines that must be enforced. How many chances should you get if you break the rules?

At NO point have I implied that I think that kids are being kicked off the team when they don't deserve to be, I am pretty sure only one person has even beat that drum. In fact, I have said the exact opposite. I am more concerned with the fact that JJ is either recruiting too many idiots, or not doing a good enough job of engaging his team. Make all the excuses for why this isn't on the coaching staff that you want, but you just aren't being realistic. The fact is that healthy college basketball programs don't have this many suspensions and dismissals.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

I had a teammate who had a love for hot boxing... really good player (all conference first team good) and in 4 years never once failed a drug test. Want to know why? He never took one. He never got selected. On a team of 12 dudes that's pretty hard to never get picked. But our 11, 12 man seemed to always get picked........ my point the programs that aren't dismissing people tend to have really lax rules or choose not to uphold the sanctions for certain sports. It's how you wind up with situations like Baylor Football and Kansas Basketball

You are going to a bit of an extreme with the Baylor/Kansas comparisons. If you belief that our issues with discipline are truly related to a heightened level of accountability in the program, there are still like 300 schools between our level of accountability and that of Kansas/Baylor.

Beyond that, if JJ is a man of such high integrity (I actually believe he is... in a good way), he needs to focus on recruiting players who can live up to his lofty standards in order to avoid the breakdowns that we are seeing... we can be William & Mary, which from our current place would be an improvement.

Sent from my Pixel C using Tapatalk

(04-17-2017 08:22 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 08:17 AM)Maryland Monarch Wrote:  Even if what you say about assistants doing the vetting is true.

It is true. Lamar Barrett was the lead recruiter for Zoran.

(04-16-2017 10:33 PM)Jackie Moon Wrote:  

(04-16-2017 07:56 PM)Justanodufan Wrote:  Unless things have changed since I was recruited (and played D1 ball), head coach doesn't vet the player, assistant coach does. Sure I got letters with the head coaches signatures all the time, but I dealt with one assistant coach at each school who were pursuing me.

Outside of the 5 schools I visited, I didn't meet with any of the head coaches.

Come on man really? Are you seriously trying to tell me that Jeff Jones only meets with recruits on their visits and doesn't have significant interaction with those recruits that don't? That is word for word what you just said.

This whole Jeff Jones apology train is comical.

(04-17-2017 08:32 AM)Maryland Monarch Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 08:22 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(04-17-2017 08:17 AM)Maryland Monarch Wrote:  Even if what you say about assistants doing the vetting is true.

It is true. Lamar Barrett was the lead recruiter for Zoran.

I believe it's true. But then you're missing the 2nd part of my point. Who hired Barrett? Who is ultimately responsible? Jones.