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+---- Thread: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie (/thread-810602.html)
Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - Machiavelli - 02-27-2017 06:44 PM
http://www.greatlakesnow.org/2017/02/great-lakes-scientist-says-if-we-lose-the-epa-we-lose-lake-erie/
In my lifetime I have seen this Lake recover but the last 5 years it's taken a significant hit. The farm bill in 08 was the leading cause. Spreadsheet farmers doing all they can to up yield. You can see the Maumee River on that map. The state of Indiana was invited to a phosphorous conference just to talk about best practices. They declined. This is why we need the EPA.
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - hoopfan - 02-27-2017 06:46 PM
again...dem's don't solve problems, they use them.
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - UofMstateU - 02-27-2017 06:50 PM
(02-27-2017 06:44 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: http://www.greatlakesnow.org/2017/02/great-lakes-scientist-says-if-we-lose-the-epa-we-lose-lake-erie/
In my lifetime I have seen this Lake recover but the last 5 years it's taken a significant hit. The farm bill in 08 was the leading cause. Spreadsheet farmers doing all they can to up yield. You can see the Maumee River on that map. The state of Indiana was invited to a phosphorous conference just to talk about best practices. They declined. This is why we need the EPA.
Yea, we need the EPA alright. Their recent track record with water speaks volumes.
![[Image: river.jpg]](http://cbsnews1.cbsistatic.com/hub/i/r/2015/08/10/5fe0e74f-1b39-4c4d-ad65-75683be36f4e/resize/620x/900571fd6ad7439620cfa05e5f22e450/river.jpg)
![[Image: EPA_administrator_resigns_amid_Flint_wat...40_480.jpg]](http://media2.wxyz.com/photo/2016/01/21/16x9/EPA_administrator_resigns_amid_Flint_wat_0_30354825_ver1.0_640_480.jpg)
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - rath v2.0 - 02-27-2017 07:12 PM
How does Mach sleep at night when everything is awful, urgent and a second hand tick away from going over the ledge for good?
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - Machiavelli - 02-27-2017 07:13 PM
Yes we do need an EPA. The answer is not getting rid of regulations. You think more phosphorous is the answer? These farmers will just obey out of their good hearts? Get real
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - rath v2.0 - 02-27-2017 07:14 PM
There's always an angle, isn't there?
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - JMUDunk - 02-27-2017 07:18 PM
What does Indiana have to do with algae blooms in Lake Erie?
And what makes you think by centralizing all these bureaucrats and their billion dollar budgets in Washington will automatically do a better job than returning that money to the States and letting those that live there take care of their own back yards? The DeeCee scientists can just move to Ohio, Pa, or Michigan and do their work right there on site.
I'd think that'd be a far more effective and efficient way to do things anyway.
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - Machiavelli - 02-27-2017 07:41 PM
What does Indiana have to do with algae blooms in Lake Erie? Excellent question Paduan and that EGGCACTLY THE REASON WE NEED AN EPA.
Couple of points.
"I think it's going to take 20 years or more and it's going to take more regulation. I have not seen the commitment from agriculture that I think is necessary."
Researchers say that curbing phosphorus-rich agricultural fertilizer runoff - perhaps through federally-imposed limits - is key to halting these toxic blooms, since it comprises more than half the algae-feeding nutrients that flow into the lake. Voluntary measures have thus far failed to curtail that runoff, even as agricultural groups resist calls for tighter regulation of farming.
Imagine that. These farmers won't voluntarily take a pay cut? Who would have thunk it?
With about 70 percent of the land along Lake Erie's western basin, much of it farmland, Ohio contributes most of the phosphorus that reaches the basin. But Michigan, with 18 percent of the watershed's land, and Indiana, with 12 percent, are contributors as well. Overall, an average of about 10,000 tons of phosphorus reaches the lake each year, more in years of heavy rain.
http://www.mlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2015/08/algae_bloom_the_sequel_spells.html
But in Trump's America we think no regulations are GREAT!!!
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - Machiavelli - 02-27-2017 07:47 PM
Indiana won't even go to the meetings to help out. You think they are going to do something without the EPA! You guys act like spoiled 5th graders. Cheering actually cheering cutting the EPA. Thank god the majority of Americans still want clean water. I gaurantee you people will be PISSED when they hear you are cutiing the EPA. They didn't vote for that and people will turn out in waves in 18. You thought 10 was a bloodbath. Just wait.
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - Hood-rich - 02-27-2017 07:58 PM
Did y'all know that there is an EPA workers union?
lmao... kill it.
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RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - Machiavelli - 02-27-2017 08:00 PM
This is where you guys lose me. How frisked up in the mind do you have to be to not want clean air and water?
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - Kaplony - 02-27-2017 08:02 PM
Perhaps instead of going after poor farmers for collecting rainwater in stock ponds the past eight years the EPA should have been dealing with this.
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - BobcatEngineer - 02-27-2017 08:04 PM
You know, if the Cuyahoga River would have never caught on fire in the 50's and 60's, we would have never gotten Great Lakes Brewing Co.'s Burning River Pale Ale...
And that pale ale is FIREEEEEE!
I'm for more environmental catastrophes as long as it results in more delicious beer.
Down with the EPA.
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - Machiavelli - 02-27-2017 08:06 PM
Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana are under Republican leadership. Republican state EPA's. Nuff said. This problem will only get incrementally worse under regulation cutting Trump and I'll make damn sure to remind everybody of that fact in 18.
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - Kaplony - 02-27-2017 08:10 PM
(02-27-2017 08:06 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana are under Republican leadership. Republican state EPA's. Nuff said. This problem will only get incrementally worse under regulation cutting Trump and I'll make damn sure to remind everybody of that fact in 18.
The states can't supersede the Feds on environmental matters so nice try.
If this is so important why wasn't it dealt with by the EPA when it was in bed with radical environmental groups?
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - JMUDunk - 02-27-2017 08:17 PM
(02-27-2017 07:41 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: What does Indiana have to do with algae blooms in Lake Erie? Excellent question Paduan and that EGGCACTLY THE REASON WE NEED AN EPA.
Couple of points.
"I think it's going to take 20 years or more and it's going to take more regulation. I have not seen the commitment from agriculture that I think is necessary."
Researchers say that curbing phosphorus-rich agricultural fertilizer runoff - perhaps through federally-imposed limits - is key to halting these toxic blooms, since it comprises more than half the algae-feeding nutrients that flow into the lake. Voluntary measures have thus far failed to curtail that runoff, even as agricultural groups resist calls for tighter regulation of farming.
Imagine that. These farmers won't voluntarily take a pay cut? Who would have thunk it?
With about 70 percent of the land along Lake Erie's western basin, much of it farmland, Ohio contributes most of the phosphorus that reaches the basin. But Michigan, with 18 percent of the watershed's land, and Indiana, with 12 percent, are contributors as well. Overall, an average of about 10,000 tons of phosphorus reaches the lake each year, more in years of heavy rain.
http://www.mlive.com/environment/index.ssf/2015/08/algae_bloom_the_sequel_spells.html
But in Trump's America we think no regulations are GREAT!!!
Uhhhh, but Indiana isn't in the Erie Watershed far as I can tell.
We have had much the same issues here with regard to the Chesapeake Bay going back probably 45 years by now before anyone really got off their asses and started to address the non-point pollution, storm runoff from farm waste. excessive fertilizers, city waste going directly into tributaries etc.
It didn't take the freaking EPA (though, yes, yes, they played a role) to get them to cooperate. It took ALL the surrounding STATES, and DC from Pennsylvania down to Va. to get together, realize the shortsightedness of turning a blind eye and the long term financial and environmental impact doing nothing would mean.
Returning the resources used to solve these problems, vegetation barriers serve as good filters for run-off, fencing cows and other livestock from streams and creeks, better, up to date water treatment facilities for the surrounding cities and locale and a myriad other things can go a long way to addressing a lot of this.
Farmers not wanting a paycut is just a silly way to pass blame for much of this. Runoff from residential fertilizer dumps a crapton of this stuff into the waterways as well, who doesn't want a nice green lawn, or the golf course to be in pretty shape?
But, all that aside, again what is the magic of having it all emanate from DC? Shut it down, open 50 offices, one in each State, pass along the resources in block grants and let the Indiana's of the world decide how they want to address their responsibility. IF they don't get it done the Feds can always threaten the funding.
Far more efficient.
*Edit- ok, missed the 12% of the land figure before, not really sure how they see that, but ok. That water/phosphorous has to travel 100's of miles it appears to end up in Lake Erie, sounds to me like a couple other States are looking for someone else to cover their problems.
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - Hood-rich - 02-27-2017 08:19 PM
(02-27-2017 08:00 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: This is where you guys lose me. How frisked up in the mind do you have to be to not want clean air and water?do you honestly think the EPA helps us to that end? we don't need an army of EPA officers to do that. the EPA is a duplication of what every state already has. they add nothing.
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RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - JMUDunk - 02-27-2017 08:29 PM
(02-27-2017 07:47 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: Indiana won't even go to the meetings to help out. You think they are going to do something without the EPA! You guys act like spoiled 5th graders. Cheering actually cheering cutting the EPA. Thank god the majority of Americans still want clean water. I gaurantee you people will be PISSED when they hear you are cutiing the EPA. They didn't vote for that and people will turn out in waves in 18. You thought 10 was a bloodbath. Just wait.
*sigh*
No one's "cheering". Looking for more effective, efficient, responsive government. Why do you cheer for the continual expansion of the bloated Federal bureaucracy at all of our great expense?
Send the money to the states, and end the "voluntary" compliance if they plan to take the $$$'s from the State. Issue sound, fair guidelines through the involved states cooperation and now the locals can easily check for said compliance. Everyone wins.
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - Jugnaut - 02-27-2017 08:33 PM
(02-27-2017 07:13 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: Yes we do need an EPA. The answer is not getting rid of regulations. You think more phosphorous is the answer? These farmers will just obey out of their good hearts? Get real
I tend to agree with you regarding the need for the EPA generally (they do overreach a lot though), but the thought has occurred to me that giving plaintiff's firms causes of action for environmental harms is probably a more effective and cheaper (at least to the taxpayer) approach to policing companies that pollute. Just a thought.
RE: Scientist's worry about Lake Erie - JMUDunk - 02-27-2017 08:36 PM
(02-27-2017 08:06 PM)Machiavelli Wrote: Michigan, Ohio, and Indiana are under Republican leadership. Republican state EPA's. Nuff said. This problem will only get incrementally worse under regulation cutting Trump and I'll make damn sure to remind everybody of that fact in 18.
Wait. What? lol.
Since when is the EPA under the Governors purview? Pretty sure it's been under zerO's direction for the last 8 years while all this was going south, but now you want to claim it's Trumps fault after 38 days.
You're just precious.
