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Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - TrojanCampaign - 01-01-2017 01:59 AM
We have many fans here that will swear up and down that stars do not matter and how they system is rigged. Today was a perfect example of what the difference is between a 4-5 star roster and a 2-4 star roster. Going back to 2014 Washington has 48 three star recruits, 14 that are four star recruits, and 7 that are 2 star or lower. This is essentially a very well coached G5 program.
Fan bias aside, I don't really see this as healthy for the sport. When you get a program like Alabama and Saban or USC and Pete Caroll they load up on all of the top recruits in their area. This won't be popular but I think a 7 scholarship reduction would be good for the sport. It's really not cool that the same 15 teams are the only teams that can compete for a national championship every year.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - Kittonhead - 01-01-2017 02:50 AM
I am on board with a drop to 75 scholarships in FBS and 55 in FCS.
NFL only has 50-55 players on a roster. Why does FBS need 85?
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - C2__ - 01-01-2017 04:32 AM
Oh come on, someone is always gonna be on top no matter what the rules are. You'd rather see a scenario where there's different teams competing for the national title each season? That'd be boring.
Alabama is gonna be good because, just like Kentucky and Kansas in basketball, they really, really want to be good. Reduce scholarships again and college football won't look so good, the quality of play will plummet to the point that even pedestrian FCS teams can take down giants. Remember, Chattanooga still had a Hail Mary (not the play) of a chance to beat Alabama this season into the fourth quarter.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - quo vadis - 01-01-2017 07:34 AM
Yes, anyone who ever doubted that recruiting matters isn't worth paying attention to.
Yes, coaching is critical, but only within the boundaries of teams with reasonably comparable talent.
Washington was arguably slightly better prepared than Alabama, which seemed to be flat and unfocused, maybe because of its coaching changes.
But Alabama won anyway, because it had better players.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - Maize - 01-01-2017 07:40 AM
It not the starting 22 where it comes into play...it the backups...
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - Dr. Isaly von Yinzer - 01-01-2017 09:02 AM
Regarding the star system and it's relative importance, it's not nearly that simple of a conversation. However, using an outlier like Alabama as an example, yes, a team that is bigger, stronger and faster than it's opponent at nearly every position will likely win more often than not.
I am sure glad we managed to navigate our way to the bottom of that brain-teaser.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - quo vadis - 01-01-2017 09:29 AM
(01-01-2017 09:02 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote: Regarding the star system and it's relative importance, it's not nearly that simple of a conversation. However, using an outlier like Alabama as an example, yes, a team that is bigger, stronger and faster than it's opponent at nearly every position will likely win more often than not.
I am sure glad we managed to navigate our way to the bottom of that brain-teaser.
In fairness to the OP, it is often voiced around here that Rivals star-rankings don't matter or matter very little.
When the fact of the matter is, if you look at the national champs the last 20 years, nearly all of them had multiple top-10 recruiting classes right before they won.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - Love and Honor - 01-01-2017 09:44 AM
Keep in mind that people often overlook how well coaching staffs develop talent, as without it you severely limit the ultimate abilities of your roster. That's how you get a G5 team of two stars playing really good football, and how some P5 schools squander talent.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - quo vadis - 01-01-2017 09:52 AM
(01-01-2017 09:44 AM)Love and Honor Wrote: Keep in mind that people often overlook how well coaching staffs develop talent, as without it you severely limit the ultimate abilities of your roster. That's how you get a G5 team of two stars playing really good football, and how some P5 schools squander talent.
No question, coaching matters tremendously, in both recruiting and talent development.
But I would say that sometimes, what appears to be talent development by coaching isn't, rather it is luck. E.g., a kid comes out of high school as a linebacker. He's 6'0", 200 pounds. He's got significant ability, but he doesn't fit the suit size-wise so to speak, so he's a two-star guy and the Alabamas and LSUs never give him a look. He goes to FIU instead.
Four years later, he's 6'4", 250 pounds of muscle, an NFL body, and is a projected 3rd round pick. He wasn't coached up at FIU, when he got there he was just a 17 year old kid who turned out to have a growth spurt left in him.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - bullet - 01-01-2017 10:25 AM
(01-01-2017 02:50 AM)Kittonhead Wrote: I am on board with a drop to 75 scholarships in FBS and 55 in FCS.
NFL only has 50-55 players on a roster. Why does FBS need 85?
I'm all for that. And they usually have 20-30 walk-ons on top of their 85.
But Alabama would have had better talent regardless. And UW was in this game. If only they could have held onto the ball. Bad decision by QB lead to interception run back for TD. UW ball carrier gets a ball just wrestled away from him one on one at midfield. That killed their momentum. Even with that, with one stop in the first drive of the 4th and they start in Alabama territory with 13 minutes left down only 10.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - DFW HOYA - 01-01-2017 10:27 AM
Yes the reserves are important, but the starting 22 matters. Watching Georgetown struggle all these years reinforces this.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - quo vadis - 01-01-2017 10:52 AM
(01-01-2017 10:27 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote: Yes the reserves are important, but the starting 22 matters. Watching Georgetown struggle all these years reinforces this.
Sad but true about Georgetown.
Though I would say that reserves matter more in football than basketball, because of greater injuries, and more moving parts when injured guys go out. Especially as the season goes on and guys wear out and get beat up, you need to be able to rotate fresh, and talented, bodies into a football game in a way you typically don't have to in basketball.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - C2__ - 01-01-2017 11:57 AM
(01-01-2017 07:40 AM)Maize Wrote: It not the starting 22 where it comes into play...it the backups...
We saw that in Houston this season. Lots of talent up top but little behind the starters. It explains the big wins but also the losses and close calls.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - Chappy - 01-01-2017 12:07 PM
(01-01-2017 10:27 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote: Yes the reserves are important, but the starting 22 matters. Watching Georgetown struggle all these years reinforces this.
Yes, that's one of the reasons you see so many upsets in the first couple weeks and also why the SEC moved a lot of their FCS games to late in the year.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - C2__ - 01-01-2017 12:14 PM
(01-01-2017 10:52 AM)quo vadis Wrote: Sad but true about Georgetown.
Though I would say that reserves matter more in football than basketball, because of greater injuries, and more moving parts when injured guys go out. Especially as the season goes on and guys wear out and get beat up, you need to be able to rotate fresh, and talented, bodies into a football game in a way you typically don't have to in basketball.
That and in basketball, you have far fewer players needed to make an impact. If a team has two-three superstars healthy but 3-4 other players injured, they won't miss a beat except against other really good teams.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - Wedge - 01-01-2017 12:28 PM
(01-01-2017 04:32 AM)_C2_ Wrote: Alabama is gonna be good because, just like Kentucky and Kansas in basketball, they really, really want to be good.
Saban & Co. with 75 scholarships would still be ahead of almost everyone, talent-wise, because their recruiting decisions are better. CFB teams absolutely don't need more than 75 scholarships, as the best FCS teams prove every year. You know what scholarships 76 through 85 are? A place to hide recruiting mistakes. Does any good team give significant playing time to more than about 55 or 60 players? Those "worst" 10-25 guys are practice players, guys who were never as good as the recruiters thought they'd be, or guys who started strong and then dropped way off.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - C2__ - 01-01-2017 12:58 PM
So it doesn't matter what the scholarship numbers are.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - bullet - 01-01-2017 03:40 PM
(01-01-2017 12:58 PM)_C2_ Wrote: So it doesn't matter what the scholarship numbers are.
Well the top teams will have more down years where they make more mistakes by recruiting players who don't make the grades in class, on the field or in the police lineups.
And it will all cost less. More good players actually get playing time instead of sitting on the bench.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - SouthEastAlaska - 01-01-2017 07:28 PM
It's a decent point but I think the scholarship numbers are fine where they are.
It really comes down to having a great coach and coaching staff around your allstar coach that can recruit well.
Alabama is a well oiled machine, they're a blue blood program with a premier coach. I think there are a few other places in the country that are set up to challenge every year just like bama. FSU, Clemson, Ohio state, and Oklahoma.
That second tier behind them are a bunch of schools that are either missing a coach, the staff is to new, or they haven't quite put it together on the recruiting trail yet but are fully capable. Those schools include Texas, Michigan, Wisconsin, Michigan state, Penn state, Stanford, USC, Washington, Louisville, Miami, Virginia Tech, Auburn, LSU, Florida, Tennessee. I'm sure i missed 1 or 2 teams but you get the idea. Everyone of these schools have the ability to become elite schools and win multiple national titles just like Alabama.
Everything goes in cycles. You could go back 100 years and I think you would still only find 4 or 5 schools per decade that were in contention almost every year.
As far as the Alabama U Dub game went, I think it went pretty much like I thought it would. Alabama is the elite program in the country and as I stated at the beginning of the year Washington is still 1 or 2 years away. UW exceeded their current talent level all year. Coach Peterson has us on the way back to where Don James had us in the beginning of the 90's.
RE: Alabama vs Washington is a perfect example of why recruiting matters. - Dr. Isaly von Yinzer - 01-01-2017 07:56 PM
(01-01-2017 09:29 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(01-01-2017 09:02 AM)Dr. Isaly von Yinzer Wrote: Regarding the star system and it's relative importance, it's not nearly that simple of a conversation. However, using an outlier like Alabama as an example, yes, a team that is bigger, stronger and faster than it's opponent at nearly every position will likely win more often than not.
I am sure glad we managed to navigate our way to the bottom of that brain-teaser.
In fairness to the OP, it is often voiced around here that Rivals star-rankings don't matter or matter very little.
When the fact of the matter is, if you look at the national champs the last 20 years, nearly all of them had multiple top-10 recruiting classes right before they won.
Yes, but that is oversimplifying things. Those teams were winning national championships long before Rivals came along – that was my point.