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Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - Printable Version

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Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - BigEastHomer - 11-24-2016 12:52 PM

Let's think about it for a minute. Is CUSA really as bad as the numbers say, or are they being dragged to the bottom of the canal with a cinder block tied to their ankle?
Without even running the numbers (with various combos), it already makes sense that resources are spread thin with more members.
Perception is key. In order to get a better media deal, the conference needs to perform well relative to other fbs conferences. It's extremely difficult to do that when there are so many teams with bad records.
So, when you compound a finite amount of resources with a diminished perception due to excess dead weight, it doesn't seem like this version of CUSA can catch a break. There is really only one good solution.

[Image: 12163284,width=280,height=280?mediaType=png]

Thin the herd
CUSA needs a makeover. They can't wait for the MWC to go into Texas. The conference needs to drop 4 teams (enough to play a championship game) and focus all their resources and energy on making their 10 team conference better.
IMO, thinning the herd is essential to survive. Looking at the following map, I'd argue that CUSA could climb back up if they were to choose the following teams to go forward with.

ODU
Charlotte
FAU
WKU
MTSU
UAB
Southern Miss
Louisiana Tech
UNT
Rice

I see this as one of ONLY two ways CUSA can go to do right by their membership. They must go small or they must go large (to 16) to alleviate travel. If they choose the second option, then CUSA should grab Arkansas State and Georgia State and run two divisions of 8 like they are almost separate conferences.

Being at 14 is the absolute worst even number that CUSA can possibly be at.

The migration of the homeless
In a perfect world, UTEP and UTSA are due for an MWC invite, and the Sunbelt would want to get into Florida with FIU. Marshall has history with the MAC, so that's where the Herd would likely go.

[Image: c-usalogomap-2014-15-c-usa14-crop_art-2.jpg]


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - C00G - 11-24-2016 01:19 PM

(11-24-2016 12:52 PM)BigEastHomer Wrote:  Let's think about it for a minute. Is CUSA really as bad as the numbers say, or are they being dragged to the bottom of the canal with a cinder block tied to their ankle?
Without even running the numbers (with various combos), it already makes sense that resources are spread thin with more members.
Perception is key. In order to get a better media deal, the conference needs to perform well relative to other fbs conferences. It's extremely difficult to do that when there are so many teams with bad records.
So, when you compound a finite amount of resources with a diminished perception due to excess dead weight, it doesn't seem like this version of CUSA can catch a break. There is really only one good solution.

[Image: 12163284,width=280,height=280?mediaType=png]

Thin the herd
CUSA needs a makeover. They can't wait for the MWC to go into Texas. The conference needs to drop 4 teams (enough to play a championship game) and focus all their resources and energy on making their 10 team conference better.
IMO, thinning the herd is essential to survive. Looking at the following map, I'd argue that CUSA could climb back up if they were to choose the following teams to go forward with.

ODU
Charlotte
FAU
WKU
MTSU
UAB
Southern Miss
Louisiana Tech
UNT
Rice

I see this as one of ONLY two ways CUSA can go to do right by their membership. They must go small or they must go large (to 16) to alleviate travel. If they choose the second option, then CUSA should grab Arkansas State and Georgia State and run two divisions of 8 like they are almost separate conferences.

Being at 14 is the absolute worst even number that CUSA can possibly be at.

The migration of the homeless
In a perfect world, UTEP and UTSA are due for an MWC invite, and the Sunbelt would want to get into Florida with FIU. Marshall has history with the MAC, so that's where the Herd would likely go.

[Image: c-usalogomap-2014-15-c-usa14-crop_art-2.jpg]

Why not split C-USA/Sun Belt into 3 conferences of 8 teams each?

UTEP
North Texas
Texas State
UTSA
Rice
Louisiana Tech
Louisiana Monroe
Louisiana Lafayette

Southern Miss
UAB
Troy
South Alabama
Georgia State
Georgia Southern
Florida Atlantic
Florida International

Arkansas State
Western Kentucky
Middle Tennessee State
Marshall
Old Dominion
Appalachian State
Charlotte
Coastal Carolina


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - stever20 - 11-24-2016 01:23 PM

they may need to, but they won't. CUSA totally overreacted after the Big East/AAC raided the conference.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - USM@FTL - 11-24-2016 02:26 PM

Appy State
Charlotte
Old Dominion
Marshall
Western Kentucky
Middle Tennessee

Georgia Southern
Georgia State
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
South Alabama
Troy

ULaLa
ULaMo
UAB
USM
Louisiana Tech
Arkansas State

Rice
North Texas
Texas-San Antonio
Texas-El Paso
Texas State
NMSU

Thing is, La Tech doesn't want to hang with ULaMo and UTEP feels the same about NMSU. Some politics to overcome. I say merge the 2 and consolidate and control the TV inventory.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - bullet - 11-24-2016 03:20 PM

The AAC, MWC and CUSA should have added teams at once instead of dragging it out. The net result was that the Sun Belt survived by back-filling with a bunch of FCS teams that are now competing with AAC and CUSA schools for recruits. 6 of the 10 Sun Belt schools have been in FBS 4 years or less as have 3 of the CUSA schools. So that is 9 schools since the raids on the Big 12 and Big East.

CUSA could have ULL, Ark. St. and Troy instead of UTSA, ODU and UNCC and there would be no Sun Belt as only ULM would be left. Appalachian St., Coastal Carolina, Georgia St. and Georgia Southern would not have left their old conferences. USA would not have had a conference to upgrade in. Texas St. (and UTSA) would have only had that one year in the WAC if they moved up at all.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - stever20 - 11-24-2016 03:32 PM

(11-24-2016 03:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  The AAC, MWC and CUSA should have added teams at once instead of dragging it out. The net result was that the Sun Belt survived by back-filling with a bunch of FCS teams that are now competing with AAC and CUSA schools for recruits. 6 of the 10 Sun Belt schools have been in FBS 4 years or less as have 3 of the CUSA schools. So that is 9 schools since the raids on the Big 12 and Big East.

CUSA could have ULL, Ark. St. and Troy instead of UTSA, ODU and UNCC and there would be no Sun Belt as only ULM would be left. Appalachian St., Coastal Carolina, Georgia St. and Georgia Southern would not have left their old conferences. USA would not have had a conference to upgrade in. Texas St. (and UTSA) would have only had that one year in the WAC if they moved up at all.

The WAC would have survived though then. New Mexico St, Idaho, Texas St, UTSA, and then at least 4 more teams.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - bullet - 11-24-2016 03:47 PM

(11-24-2016 03:32 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(11-24-2016 03:20 PM)bullet Wrote:  The AAC, MWC and CUSA should have added teams at once instead of dragging it out. The net result was that the Sun Belt survived by back-filling with a bunch of FCS teams that are now competing with AAC and CUSA schools for recruits. 6 of the 10 Sun Belt schools have been in FBS 4 years or less as have 3 of the CUSA schools. So that is 9 schools since the raids on the Big 12 and Big East.

CUSA could have ULL, Ark. St. and Troy instead of UTSA, ODU and UNCC and there would be no Sun Belt as only ULM would be left. Appalachian St., Coastal Carolina, Georgia St. and Georgia Southern would not have left their old conferences. USA would not have had a conference to upgrade in. Texas St. (and UTSA) would have only had that one year in the WAC if they moved up at all.

The WAC would have survived though then. New Mexico St, Idaho, Texas St, UTSA, and then at least 4 more teams.

The Montana schools were wary of the stability and nobody else had the capability of moving up out west.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - bullet - 11-24-2016 03:47 PM

And the MWC could have gone to 14 to forestall that. They basically did kill the WAC and eliminated their competition.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - stever20 - 11-24-2016 04:03 PM

(11-24-2016 03:47 PM)bullet Wrote:  And the MWC could have gone to 14 to forestall that. They basically did kill the WAC and eliminated their competition.

but they didn't show any inclination of wanting to add 2 more from those 4? I don't think so.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - C2__ - 11-24-2016 04:18 PM

I understand that conferences were trying to keep themselves in a position of strength by adding schools to stay ahead of the conference below it but C-USA and the AAC overexpanded. Heck, even the MWC overexpanded, what does San Jose State add? The Bay Area market wasn't important enough for them to be in the conference originally, so it's just more deadweight no different than why they didn't add Idaho or NMSU. In the recent expansion, here's who shouldn't have been added in each conference:

AAC

Navy (yes, even the probable conference champion)
Tulane
Tulsa

C-USA

FIU/FAU (one or the other)
Western Kentucky, UNT, UTSA or Charlotte (C-USA used to have some prestige, let a startup develop on someone else's dime)

MWC

San Jose State (UTEP instead if possible)
Hawai'i (they could have done a scheduling alliance, also good for Hawai'i as well to be an independent with more games free)

The bigger you get, the more watered down you get. That and you also hurt rivalries.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - stever20 - 11-24-2016 04:33 PM

The AAC is interesting. Navy has been great so far for the AAC. division champs both years. Possibly even access bowl bound. Tulsa has been bowl bound in 2 of the 3 years including this, and made the NCAA tourney last year. Really only Tulane- and you want to have an even number.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - MWC Tex - 11-24-2016 04:38 PM

(11-24-2016 01:23 PM)stever20 Wrote:  they may need to, but they won't. CUSA totally overreacted after the Big East/AAC raided the conference.

Yeah...they rushed to quickly adding Charlotte and Old Dominion.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - stever20 - 11-24-2016 04:43 PM

(11-24-2016 04:38 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(11-24-2016 01:23 PM)stever20 Wrote:  they may need to, but they won't. CUSA totally overreacted after the Big East/AAC raided the conference.

Yeah...they rushed to quickly adding Charlotte and Old Dominion.

I don't think they're the problem. I think those 2 have a ton of potential. It's more some of the other programs. UNT, Mid Tennessee come to mind.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - C2__ - 11-24-2016 05:02 PM

(11-24-2016 04:33 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The AAC is interesting. Navy has been great so far for the AAC. division champs both years. Possibly even access bowl bound. Tulsa has been bowl bound in 2 of the 3 years including this, and made the NCAA tourney last year. Really only Tulane- and you want to have an even number.

There are other factors at hand here, namely that Tulane and Tulsa are small private schools that don't generate a great deal of buzz in their own markets. Navy is competitive on the field at the moment but the nature of their mission disables them from being able to be a trustworthy contributor long term. They could go 0-12 each year and their administration wouldn't care because their primary goal is molding good officers for the armed forces.

I question their addition. Are they really going to draw in the casual fan that much to where they add something to a conference? Maybe if Army, Air Force and Navy were in the same conference it'd work but I just don't see it by themselves. There's a reason why they're in the Patriot League in everything else and Air Force struggles in some notable MWC sports other than football.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - DavidSt - 11-24-2016 05:03 PM

If they do this? Expect some FCS call ups as well. James Madison would be the girl that every body wants. Wichita State, Lamar, Sam Houston State, SFA, Missouri State and Northern Iowa could go the western part.

WAS could reform using the western C-USA schools and add UTRGV, Wichita State, Missouri State, Northern Iowa, Lamar, South Dakota State and North Dakota State. That would be the FBS conference, and able to come back as one. The question mark is the MVC which I read at places that they could be an FBS conference again, and other places they can not. That conference is a sister conference to the Big 8 schools. Southern is the parent conference of SEC and the ACC. There are a lot of history of football between those three conferences that they might be able to get enough support for them to be called FBS again.

Delaware might join James Madison with the eastern C-USA schools. Eastern Kentucky and Jacksonville State might be able to secure spots. Jacksonville State is getting to be recognized a P5 killer in the past. I think if C-USA east wants a Ohio school? They could grab Toledo, and if none of them wants to leave the MAC? Grab Youngstown State who have been trying to get into FBS. Liberty might buy their way into the MAC and bring Stony Brook with them.

I have an idea for what P5 conferences could do with G5 schools and so forth.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - C2__ - 11-24-2016 05:09 PM

I think you've had a bit too much turkey and dressing sir. COGS


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - stever20 - 11-24-2016 05:27 PM

(11-24-2016 05:02 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  
(11-24-2016 04:33 PM)stever20 Wrote:  The AAC is interesting. Navy has been great so far for the AAC. division champs both years. Possibly even access bowl bound. Tulsa has been bowl bound in 2 of the 3 years including this, and made the NCAA tourney last year. Really only Tulane- and you want to have an even number.

There are other factors at hand here, namely that Tulane and Tulsa are small private schools that don't generate a great deal of buzz in their own markets. Navy is competitive on the field at the moment but the nature of their mission disables them from being able to be a trustworthy contributor long term. They could go 0-12 each year and their administration wouldn't care because their primary goal is molding good officers for the armed forces.

I question their addition. Are they really going to draw in the casual fan that much to where they add something to a conference? Maybe if Army, Air Force and Navy were in the same conference it'd work but I just don't see it by themselves. There's a reason why they're in the Patriot League in everything else and Air Force struggles in some notable MWC sports other than football.

Navy though has been really good in football. Last 9 years(so 10th year would be this one)- Navy is 76-41. tied for 25th in most wins in that time frame. I think they do add the casual fan. And with them football only, who gives a damn what their other sports are like- it just doesn't matter.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - C2__ - 11-24-2016 05:41 PM

But it won't last forever. It's not plausible to expect it to last forever. Before that, aside from maybe a team or two, Navy had been irrelevant for 40 years or so. There's a reason Notre Dame had a winning streak over them that nearly lasted a half century.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - stever20 - 11-24-2016 05:47 PM

(11-24-2016 05:41 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  But it won't last forever. It's not plausible to expect it to last forever. Before that, aside from maybe a team or two, Navy had been irrelevant for 40 years or so. There's a reason Notre Dame had a winning streak over them that nearly lasted a half century.

But the AAC needed success right out of the box.

Bottom line, the AAC didn't overexpand anywhere near as much as the other G5 conferences did. The only one who was close quite frankly was the Sun Belt.


RE: Does CUSA Need to Thin the Herd? - THE NC Herd Fan - 11-24-2016 05:59 PM

Good lord!!! Why would CUSA keep FAU over Marshall?!? Marshall has had one down year since CUSA 3.0 formed. FAU hasn't had a winning season 2008 and their best record since joining CUSA is 6 - 6. If anything drop the two Florida schools. Marshall, UNCC, ODU, WKU, MTSU are all reasonably close geographically, once UAB is back it's a bit of a haul for Marshall and ODU but still grouped together regionally to minimize travel expenses. With the 3 P5 FL Schools and 2 well established G5 FL Schools, I don't see FIU or FAU ever being that strong.

That would make the west, USM, La Tech, Rice, UTSA, UTEP, No. Tx. also grouped together reasonably well geographically.