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+---- Thread: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU (/thread-792710.html)
CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - Maize - 09-29-2016 01:13 PM
Interesting rehash...glad it worked out for Louisville...Louisville AD Tom Jurich called it the Worst Day of his life. Here is the link
http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/what-if-the-big-12-had-chosen-louisville-over-west-virginia-during-realignment/
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - Frank the Tank - 09-29-2016 01:30 PM
(09-29-2016 01:13 PM)Maize Wrote: Interesting rehash...glad it worked out for Louisville...Louisville AD Tom Jurich called it the Worst Day of his life. Here is the link
http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/what-if-the-big-12-had-chosen-louisville-over-west-virginia-during-realignment/
I think Dodd is concentrating too much on the current ranking of Louisville. I don't think it's an "either/or" situation. If it was just a matter of the Big 12 picking Louisville *instead* of WVU, the league would still be in the same situation with a 10-team league with instability and the same pool of "meh" (in their opinion) expansion options. The Big 12 really hasn't had issues in terms of on-the-field quality - don't let the current rankings fool anyone on that front.
Instead, the real question is what would have changed if the Big 12 had added all 3 of WVU, Louisville and BYU at the same time. BYU's honor code issues would not have had anywhere near the same type of scrutiny 5 years ago as they do today (where the cultural viewpoints have changed drastically during that time period). That could have altered at least the perception of the Big 12's stability quite a bit. I'd still think the Big 12 would be lowest on the realignment pecking order compared to the rest of the P5, but the gap wouldn't be quite as large.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - GoldenWarrior11 - 09-29-2016 01:33 PM
If the Big 12 chose Louisville, I wonder who the ACC selects to replace Maryland - UConn or West Virginia (or possibly Cincinnati). My gut says West Virginia, but there has never really been a push by either WVU or the ACC for a partnership. Would UConn get in past the politics/football? Or would FSU/Clemson and the football crowd block it?
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - HuskyHawk - 09-29-2016 01:33 PM
(09-29-2016 01:30 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:(09-29-2016 01:13 PM)Maize Wrote: Interesting rehash...glad it worked out for Louisville...Louisville AD Tom Jurich called it the Worst Day of his life. Here is the link
http://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/what-if-the-big-12-had-chosen-louisville-over-west-virginia-during-realignment/
I think Dodd is concentrating too much on the current ranking of Louisville. I don't think it's an "either/or" situation. If it was just a matter of the Big 12 picking Louisville *instead* of WVU, the league would still be in the same situation with a 10-team league with instability and the same pool of "meh" (in their opinion) expansion options. The Big 12 really hasn't had issues in terms of on-the-field quality - don't let the current rankings fool anyone on that front.
Instead, the real question is what would have changed if the Big 12 had added all 3 of WVU, Louisville and BYU at the same time. BYU's honor code issues would not have had anywhere near the same type of scrutiny 5 years ago as they do today (where the cultural viewpoints have changed drastically during that time period). That could have altered at least the perception of the Big 12's stability quite a bit. I'd still think the Big 12 would be lowest on the realignment pecking order compared to the rest of the P5, but the gap wouldn't be quite as large.
Forget BYU, Cincinnati + Louisville and WVU are a natural fit geographically. Cinci had a darned good football team at that point in time too. UConn would be in the ACC and all would be right with the world.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - stever20 - 09-29-2016 01:47 PM
The difference though is-
if they had taken Louisville- right now WVU is likely still out there as an option, and would have been viewed a lot more favorably than what is out there now. The ACC's move would have probably been UConn. The billion dollar question though would be- would Clemson/FSU agreed to a grant of rights with UConn in the fold? Very debatable. Could Clemson/FSU have been shook loose to the Big 12? Possible.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - Dasville - 09-29-2016 01:47 PM
Arguably, UofL has done for the ACC what the B1G was hoping Nebraska would do for them.
I like WVU, despite some of their fans hate towards us. I admit I have reciprocated.
Sorry about that!
I don't think it is fair to lay the blame of the Big 12 past mistakes on WVU.
It's time to stop the comparisons.
Best of luck to WVU.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - Maize - 09-29-2016 01:59 PM
This statement from Jurich kind of surprises me...kinda blunt on the Big XII current situation:
"I don't think they're going to do anything," Jurich said of the Big 12. "What do any of these [expansion candidates] bring?"
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - Tigeer - 09-29-2016 02:01 PM
(09-29-2016 01:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: If the Big 12 chose Louisville, I wonder who the ACC selects to replace Maryland - UConn or West Virginia (or possibly Cincinnati). My gut says West Virginia, but there has never really been a push by either WVU or the ACC for a partnership. Would UConn get in past the politics/football? Or would FSU/Clemson and the football crowd block it?
Would have been UConn; WVU has pushed to get in the ACC over the years to no avail. They are not wanted by the ACC and have been since the league was formed in the 50's.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - Frank the Tank - 09-29-2016 02:01 PM
(09-29-2016 01:47 PM)stever20 Wrote: The difference though is-
if they had taken Louisville- right now WVU is likely still out there as an option, and would have been viewed a lot more favorably than what is out there now. The ACC's move would have probably been UConn. The billion dollar question though would be- would Clemson/FSU agreed to a grant of rights with UConn in the fold? Very debatable. Could Clemson/FSU have been shook loose to the Big 12? Possible.
I don't know if WVU would have been still out there. If the ACC was willing to break with its normal academic standards to add Louisville for football reasons, they could have very well decided to add WVU instead of UConn, too (as WVU had the longer football tradition with a lot of history playing ACC schools). WVU would have been even more of a "football addition" than Louisville at that time.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - CarlSmithCenter - 09-29-2016 02:07 PM
(09-29-2016 02:01 PM)Tigeer Wrote:(09-29-2016 01:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: If the Big 12 chose Louisville, I wonder who the ACC selects to replace Maryland - UConn or West Virginia (or possibly Cincinnati). My gut says West Virginia, but there has never really been a push by either WVU or the ACC for a partnership. Would UConn get in past the politics/football? Or would FSU/Clemson and the football crowd block it?
Would have been UConn; WVU has pushed to get in the ACC over the years to no avail. They are not wanted by the ACC and have been since the league was formed in the 50's.
Maybe, but the ACC had no interest in Louisville before the Terps left either. If the only difference was that Louisville joined the Big XII and WVU still stuck in the AAC, I think that Clemson and Florida State, who were very vocal about not wanting another mediocre football program, would have lobbied hard for WVU over UConn. Plus, BC is dead set against having UConn in the league.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - TexanMark - 09-29-2016 02:15 PM
Glad Louisville got passed over for WVU.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - MplsBison - 09-29-2016 02:15 PM
stever,
No ... because WV would be in the ACC right now, in Louisville's current spot. They would've just swapped places. And thus locked into the ACC via the GOR.
That's all that would've happened. And some in the Big 12 wanted that to happen, too. TCU + Louisville to the Big 12.
No idea what WV would've done in the mean time. I guess stayed in the AAC for a little bit.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - stever20 - 09-29-2016 02:17 PM
(09-29-2016 02:15 PM)MplsBison Wrote: stever,
No ... because WV would be in the ACC right now, in Louisville's current spot. They would've just swapped places. And thus locked into the ACC via the GOR.
I don't think that would have been a lock by any stretch of the imagination.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - Frank the Tank - 09-29-2016 02:17 PM
(09-29-2016 02:07 PM)CarlSmithCenter Wrote:(09-29-2016 02:01 PM)Tigeer Wrote:(09-29-2016 01:33 PM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote: If the Big 12 chose Louisville, I wonder who the ACC selects to replace Maryland - UConn or West Virginia (or possibly Cincinnati). My gut says West Virginia, but there has never really been a push by either WVU or the ACC for a partnership. Would UConn get in past the politics/football? Or would FSU/Clemson and the football crowd block it?
Would have been UConn; WVU has pushed to get in the ACC over the years to no avail. They are not wanted by the ACC and have been since the league was formed in the 50's.
Maybe, but the ACC had no interest in Louisville before the Terps left either. If the only difference was that Louisville joined the Big XII and WVU still stuck in the AAC, I think that Clemson and Florida State, who were very vocal about not wanting another mediocre football program, would have lobbied hard for WVU over UConn. Plus, BC is dead set against having UConn in the league.
Agreed. Louisville was even less on the radar of the ACC for decades compared to WVU. The circumstances of the Maryland defection were unique where football considerations definitely seemed to trump everything else for the ACC, so I think WVU would have actually been more attractive to the ACC at the time by comparison. Any historical objections seemed to be thrown out the window in that last expansion process.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - Frank the Tank - 09-29-2016 02:20 PM
(09-29-2016 02:17 PM)stever20 Wrote:(09-29-2016 02:15 PM)MplsBison Wrote: stever,
No ... because WV would be in the ACC right now, in Louisville's current spot. They would've just swapped places. And thus locked into the ACC via the GOR.
I don't think that would have been a lock by any stretch of the imagination.
It's not a lock, but you're overstating your viewpoint, too. The ACC changed its long-time historical stances regarding institutional fit and academics when Maryland defected to essentially pick the best "football school" possible. In terms of being a "football school", WVU was even higher on the pecking order than Louisville at that time. So, the football-driven reasons why the ACC picked Louisville over UConn were actually even more in favor of the ACC picking WVU over UConn in this hypothetical.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - adcorbett - 09-29-2016 02:22 PM
(09-29-2016 02:01 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:(09-29-2016 01:47 PM)stever20 Wrote: The difference though is-
if they had taken Louisville- right now WVU is likely still out there as an option, and would have been viewed a lot more favorably than what is out there now. The ACC's move would have probably been UConn. The billion dollar question though would be- would Clemson/FSU agreed to a grant of rights with UConn in the fold? Very debatable. Could Clemson/FSU have been shook loose to the Big 12? Possible.
I don't know if WVU would have been still out there. If the ACC was willing to break with its normal academic standards to add Louisville for football reasons, they could have very well decided to add WVU instead of UConn, too (as WVU had the longer football tradition with a lot of history playing ACC schools). WVU would have been even more of a "football addition" than Louisville at that time.
I can't speak for this, but based on comments from long time ACC guys, the issue with WVU runs far deeper than academics, and as quoted in the story, had Louisville been taken by the ACC, there is still only a small chance WVU would be taken by the ACC. There is some serious animosity between the two parties. I know that WVU would NEVER have gotten in as long as Maryland was there, but even with Maryland gone, their options there were still slim apparently. Remember WVU lobbied to get into the ACC, before the ACC even added Syracuse and Pitt. There are just some deep seated issues there, that only the absolute threat of FSU and Clemson leaving would have resolved.
It is quite possible that if UConn was still a no go, Cincinnati would be in the ACC now instead of West Virginia, when all is considered.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - MplsBison - 09-29-2016 02:23 PM
I'm sure UConn, plus Cinci and USF would have gotten consideration by the ACC.
But I think in the end they would have invited WV. Which is too bad, because that would have been better for both WV and Louisville, I think.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - MplsBison - 09-29-2016 02:24 PM
Corbett,
That's just old-timers talking on message boards. You think the current UNC and UVA presidents give a crap about some blood feud with WV from back in the 1930's??
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - adcorbett - 09-29-2016 02:30 PM
(09-29-2016 02:24 PM)MplsBison Wrote: Corbett,
That's just old-timers talking on message boards. You think the current UNC and UVA presidents give a crap about some blood feud with WV from back in the 1930's??
yes. That is why they summarily dismissed when they applied for admission in 2010. That is not message board talk. That is old line talk from those who were around, that have seeped into message boards. Not the same thing.
You are relying on your opinion, with no historical reference to base it on, and ignore all else. Actual history suggests otherwise, be it from 60 years ago or 6 years ago. Without anecdotal evidence otherwise, you should not dismiss such things.
I can tell you this. I graduated from Maryland. And I can tell you for a fact, that WVU would never have been allowed in the ACC as long as Maryland was there, or they would have left. What I can't speak for is if the ACC as a whole, if their hatred was mostly just from UMD, or just from UMD and UVA, or if the others felt the same way. From that point, I rely on others. But that is not message board lore: MD was NEVER Going to allow WVU in.
RE: CBS Dodd: What if the Big XII chose Louisville over WVU - HuskyHawk - 09-29-2016 02:31 PM
(09-29-2016 02:20 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:(09-29-2016 02:17 PM)stever20 Wrote:(09-29-2016 02:15 PM)MplsBison Wrote: stever,
No ... because WV would be in the ACC right now, in Louisville's current spot. They would've just swapped places. And thus locked into the ACC via the GOR.
I don't think that would have been a lock by any stretch of the imagination.
It's not a lock, but you're overstating your viewpoint, too. The ACC changed its long-time historical stances regarding institutional fit and academics when Maryland defected to essentially pick the best "football school" possible. In terms of being a "football school", WVU was even higher on the pecking order than Louisville at that time. So, the football-driven reasons why the ACC picked Louisville over UConn were actually even more in favor of the ACC picking WVU over UConn in this hypothetical.
I agree. And academically, while WVU isn't a prize, it isn't the disaster that Louisville is. It's also clearly a better fit with Pitt and VT, and even brings a little something to what they lost in the DC market.
But really the Big XII needed to take UL, WVU and Cincinnati to maximize the values of each of them.