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+---- Thread: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? (/thread-784230.html)
If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - Rube Dali - 07-13-2016 05:24 PM
Bob Bowlsby's comments on the possibility of a split in Division I got me thinking: How do you think the split will occur, if it happens at all? I won't go into full detail on all the scenarios, I'll just put a poll out.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - johnbragg - 07-13-2016 05:28 PM
Dang, didn't notice "No split" as an option
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - Kaplony - 07-13-2016 05:34 PM
I voted Most of D-I simply because it's the closest to solving what the real problem is.
The real problem that most of the upper half of D-I (including G5 schools and the better basketball conferences) is not a football/basketball divide or a P5/G5 divide......it's the fact that there's a significant number of schools who have no business in D-I who made the move to cash in on March Madness money. These D-I in name only schools haven't invested in their programs and are happy just to cash their NCAA check every year.
There's at least 100 programs currently in D-I that have absolutely no business being there. That's where the problem is.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - Cyniclone - 07-13-2016 05:35 PM
(07-13-2016 05:28 PM)johnbragg Wrote: Dang, didn't notice "No split" as an option
Technically it's in there twice, since "all of D-1" is "no split"
My vote: FBS + some basketball conferences (Big East, A-10, Missouri Valley, WCC, maybe Horizon, maybe Colonial). That covers most of the decent mid-major programs. The few on the outside (Stephen F. Austin, Belmont) would hustle to get in a conference on the right side of the divide.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - dbackjon - 07-13-2016 05:48 PM
(07-13-2016 05:34 PM)Kaplony Wrote: I voted Most of D-I simply because it's the closest to solving what the real problem is.
The real problem that most of the upper half of D-I (including G5 schools and the better basketball conferences) is not a football/basketball divide or a P5/G5 divide......it's the fact that there's a significant number of schools who have no business in D-I who made the move to cash in on March Madness money. These D-I in name only schools haven't invested in their programs and are happy just to cash their NCAA check every year.
There's at least 100 programs currently in D-I that have absolutely no business being there. That's where the problem is.
In your opinion, what constitutes an athletic department with no business being in DI?
Length of time in DI? Facilities? Operating at bare minimum?
All of the above?
What criteria would you use to sort out the bottom one-hundred?
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - JRsec - 07-13-2016 05:56 PM
(07-13-2016 05:34 PM)Kaplony Wrote: I voted Most of D-I simply because it's the closest to solving what the real problem is.
The real problem that most of the upper half of D-I (including G5 schools and the better basketball conferences) is not a football/basketball divide or a P5/G5 divide......it's the fact that there's a significant number of schools who have no business in D-I who made the move to cash in on March Madness money. These D-I in name only schools haven't invested in their programs and are happy just to cash their NCAA check every year.
There's at least 100 programs currently in D-I that have absolutely no business being there. That's where the problem is.
It will be P5 or P4 only but probably after another expansion.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - RutgersGuy - 07-13-2016 06:00 PM
(07-13-2016 05:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:(07-13-2016 05:34 PM)Kaplony Wrote: I voted Most of D-I simply because it's the closest to solving what the real problem is.
The real problem that most of the upper half of D-I (including G5 schools and the better basketball conferences) is not a football/basketball divide or a P5/G5 divide......it's the fact that there's a significant number of schools who have no business in D-I who made the move to cash in on March Madness money. These D-I in name only schools haven't invested in their programs and are happy just to cash their NCAA check every year.
There's at least 100 programs currently in D-I that have absolutely no business being there. That's where the problem is.
It will be P5 or P4 only but probably after another expansion.
Good luck with buy games when you are only playing other P5's in every single sport.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - BearcatJerry - 07-13-2016 06:04 PM
It will be the Power Conferences... Including the Big East (probably expanded) and maybe the A-10 and WCC.
A division already exists...it just hasn't fully manifested yet.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - bullet - 07-13-2016 06:11 PM
I don't think there will be an official split. They will just raise the spending requirements driving about 100 schools out. The 150 or so in the middle will go along because of the threat of an official split.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - rokamortis - 07-13-2016 06:14 PM
(07-13-2016 06:11 PM)bullet Wrote: I don't think there will be an official split. They will just raise the spending requirements driving about 100 schools out. The 150 or so in the middle will go along because of the threat of an official split.
I don't see a split where the richest conferences go just for anti-competitive reasons. But I could see a true DI where they make teams play FBS football. So in line with your comment, many schools don't want to spend that money.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - RutgersGuy - 07-13-2016 06:24 PM
(07-13-2016 06:14 PM)rokamortis Wrote:(07-13-2016 06:11 PM)bullet Wrote: I don't think there will be an official split. They will just raise the spending requirements driving about 100 schools out. The 150 or so in the middle will go along because of the threat of an official split.
I don't see a split where the richest conferences go just for anti-competitive reasons. But I could see a true DI where they make teams play FBS football. So in line with your comment, many schools don't want to spend that money.
Make teams play football? How do you make a school play football? The last thing the P5 wants is more mouths to feed in FB. They rather have conferences like the BE, A-10 and WCC who aren't looking for football money and make a BBall tourny more valuable.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - rokamortis - 07-13-2016 06:30 PM
(07-13-2016 06:24 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:(07-13-2016 06:14 PM)rokamortis Wrote:(07-13-2016 06:11 PM)bullet Wrote: I don't think there will be an official split. They will just raise the spending requirements driving about 100 schools out. The 150 or so in the middle will go along because of the threat of an official split.
I don't see a split where the richest conferences go just for anti-competitive reasons. But I could see a true DI where they make teams play FBS football. So in line with your comment, many schools don't want to spend that money.
Make teams play football? How do you make a school play football? The last thing the P5 wants is more mouths to feed in FB. They rather have conferences like the BE, A-10 and WCC who aren't looking for football money and make a BBall tourny more valuable.
They have requirements for playing certain sports for DI now. It helps level the playing field. You have some teams that put all of their resources in basketball while other schools support basketball and FBS football.
Some of those schools will have to make a decision, some will add football while others don't.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - Kittonhead - 07-13-2016 06:45 PM
(07-13-2016 06:00 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:(07-13-2016 05:56 PM)JRsec Wrote:(07-13-2016 05:34 PM)Kaplony Wrote: I voted Most of D-I simply because it's the closest to solving what the real problem is.
The real problem that most of the upper half of D-I (including G5 schools and the better basketball conferences) is not a football/basketball divide or a P5/G5 divide......it's the fact that there's a significant number of schools who have no business in D-I who made the move to cash in on March Madness money. These D-I in name only schools haven't invested in their programs and are happy just to cash their NCAA check every year.
There's at least 100 programs currently in D-I that have absolutely no business being there. That's where the problem is.
It will be P5 or P4 only but probably after another expansion.
Good luck with buy games when you are only playing other P5's in every single sport.
I voted for P5 or P4 split.
They split and create the "College Basketball Playoff" where there is no automatic bids and just the Top 4 schools play in a mini playoff to determine a champion.
Meanwhile the 25 D1 conferences left behind get to enjoy march madness without the P5 schools taking up space. That means more at-large bids for mid major conferences and still enough schools to make the tournament interesting nationally.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - RutgersGuy - 07-13-2016 07:20 PM
(07-13-2016 06:30 PM)rokamortis Wrote:(07-13-2016 06:24 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:(07-13-2016 06:14 PM)rokamortis Wrote:(07-13-2016 06:11 PM)bullet Wrote: I don't think there will be an official split. They will just raise the spending requirements driving about 100 schools out. The 150 or so in the middle will go along because of the threat of an official split.
I don't see a split where the richest conferences go just for anti-competitive reasons. But I could see a true DI where they make teams play FBS football. So in line with your comment, many schools don't want to spend that money.
Make teams play football? How do you make a school play football? The last thing the P5 wants is more mouths to feed in FB. They rather have conferences like the BE, A-10 and WCC who aren't looking for football money and make a BBall tourny more valuable.
They have requirements for playing certain sports for DI now. It helps level the playing field. You have some teams that put all of their resources in basketball while other schools support basketball and FBS football.
Some of those schools will have to make a decision, some will add football while others don't.
You think the TV partners who write the big fat checks rather have UAB and Coastal Carolina or Villanova and Georgetown in the basketball tournament? You think they rather see Big East schools or Sunbelt schools? Honest question.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - Carolina_Low_Country - 07-13-2016 07:40 PM
FBS plus Ivy League, MVC, Big East, A-10, and WCC.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - TripleA - 07-13-2016 07:51 PM
(07-13-2016 07:40 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote: FBS plus Ivy League, MVC, Big East, A-10, and WCC.
It won't be anywhere near that many FBS schools. You think the P5 is going to let in all the Sunbelt, MAC and CUSA schools?
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - Attackcoog - 07-13-2016 07:54 PM
Breaking off FBS from D1 would be the easiest way to create a new division. It would just be going from a subdivision to an actual division. I could see bringing along the Big East and ACC. But it might make more sense to come to a negotiated agreement with the G5 to become hybrids. Then the new division could expand their G5 conferences to take in most of the valuable basketball schools in their regions. That would end the need to add entire non-FBS basketball conferences when really only a handful of schools in those basketball conferences have real value. Doing that would supercharge the G5 basketball leagues making them much more valuable to TV and more worthy of sticking with the P5. If each G5 took 6 basketball schools, that's 30 additional basketball schools. That would put the new division at just over 160 schools for basketball. If the P5 each took a pair, that would bump the number to over 170. That should be more than enough to put together a really entertaining 64 team tournament.
Interestingly, for the most part, the talk of a "split" only gets raised as a lever to get something the power conferences want. My guess is we will soon see what it is that they want.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - rokamortis - 07-13-2016 07:59 PM
(07-13-2016 07:20 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:(07-13-2016 06:30 PM)rokamortis Wrote:(07-13-2016 06:24 PM)RutgersGuy Wrote:(07-13-2016 06:14 PM)rokamortis Wrote:(07-13-2016 06:11 PM)bullet Wrote: I don't think there will be an official split. They will just raise the spending requirements driving about 100 schools out. The 150 or so in the middle will go along because of the threat of an official split.
I don't see a split where the richest conferences go just for anti-competitive reasons. But I could see a true DI where they make teams play FBS football. So in line with your comment, many schools don't want to spend that money.
Make teams play football? How do you make a school play football? The last thing the P5 wants is more mouths to feed in FB. They rather have conferences like the BE, A-10 and WCC who aren't looking for football money and make a BBall tourny more valuable.
They have requirements for playing certain sports for DI now. It helps level the playing field. You have some teams that put all of their resources in basketball while other schools support basketball and FBS football.
Some of those schools will have to make a decision, some will add football while others don't.
You think the TV partners who write the big fat checks rather have UAB and Coastal Carolina or Villanova and Georgetown in the basketball tournament? You think they rather see Big East schools or Sunbelt schools? Honest question.
The TV partners would probably want all sports partners. As long as they have the P5 I'm not sure they care as much about the other. I think the P5 have more leverage than the non-football schools. No Villanova or Georgetown - well as long as they still have UNC, Duke, Syracuse, Cal, Kentucky, etc then the TV partners will be just fine. I bet you see Georgetown and Villanova upgrade football though.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - Lord Stanley - 07-13-2016 08:19 PM
A lot of these guys across Division One all know each other and would probably be hesitant to cut off good friends and destroy relationships at lower schools in chase of the almighty dollar.
RE: If there's a D-I split, how will it unfold? - Wolfman - 07-13-2016 08:26 PM
There is another option. Back in the 30s the SoCon got to 20+ members. Some schools wanted to implement academic and/or post season restrictions. The SEC schools left in 33 and the ACC schools in 53. You could see schools wanting to get out of the minor league business and emphasize academics. Notre Dame has already hinted at this.