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+---- Thread: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse (/thread-780642.html)
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St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - Lord Stanley - 05-24-2016 03:08 PM
http://www.startribune.com/st-thomas-is-dominating-the-miac-as-never-before/380666931/
Quote:The Tommies just completed their ninth consecutive season of winning the conference all-sports championship in both men’s and women’s sports. This winter, St. Thomas won or shared seven of eight conference regular-season titles, and was second in the other sport (men’s hockey). The Tommies were 5-for-6 in spring sports titles. UST this season also won the NCAA Division III men’s basketball title and played in the football national title game.
St. Thomas is a Division III powerhouse.
Quote:The Tommies researched a potential move to NCAA Division I a decade ago, but instead decided that fielding winning D-III athletic programs better fit their philosophy. That mind-set remains solidly in place, St. Thomas athletic director Steve Fritz said.
Hey look at that, confirmation of looking of move up Divisions.
Quote:St. Thomas already has more advantages than most rivals in such areas as school size — it has the largest enrollment in the conference (MIAC) — athletic facilities and its location in the heart of the Twin Cities.
Lots of future potential.......
Quote:St. Thomas has made a conscious effort to excel at athletics, Fritz said, believing winning teams help afford the school a positive image that helps in marketing and attracting students.
Athletics is the front door at St. Thomas, not just football.
Quote:Hamline AD Jason Verdugo said Wisconsin-Superior’s recent move from the Wisconsin Intercollegiate Athletic Conference to the Upper Midwest Athletic Conference prompted him to do an analysis of the benefits of the switch, which he estimates would mean 55 more victories a year across all sports.
Interesting look inside what other items may make up a conference change analysis.
Quote:“I do think that we will see some shifting in NCAA Division III conference membership throughout the Midwest over the next couple years,
Keep the board open for another couple years, baby!
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - MplsBison - 05-24-2016 03:11 PM
There are absolute a few schools in the MIAC and WIAC conferences that should be forced out of DIII.
When you dominate that much, for that long ... it gets old! Let someone else have a chance.
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - gopher952 - 05-24-2016 03:24 PM
St Thomas is a powers house no doubt. I would love to see them move up. there endowment is pretty big to
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - NoDak - 05-24-2016 03:59 PM
St Thomas would have been in the Big East if had made the DI move years ago.
Their is an MLS stadium going up not too far from its campus. The original location was to be downtown Mnpls, but the plans changed to have nearly midway between the two cities downtowns near a light rail line.
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - Cyniclone - 05-24-2016 05:14 PM
(05-24-2016 03:11 PM)MplsBison Wrote: There are absolute a few schools in the MIAC and WIAC conferences that should be forced out of DIII.
When you dominate that much, for that long ... it gets old! Let someone else have a chance.
How do you force a non-scholarship athletic department out of a non-scholarship athletic division? Force them to offer schollies? Or make them compete against scholarship-issuing programs while not giving any themselves?
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - dbackjon - 05-24-2016 05:18 PM
(05-24-2016 05:14 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:(05-24-2016 03:11 PM)MplsBison Wrote: There are absolute a few schools in the MIAC and WIAC conferences that should be forced out of DIII.
When you dominate that much, for that long ... it gets old! Let someone else have a chance.
How do you force a non-scholarship athletic department out of a non-scholarship athletic division? Force them to offer schollies? Or make them compete against scholarship-issuing programs while not giving any themselves?
Put a max school size on the division?
St. Thomas is double the size of the next largest conference member, and 3-5 times the size of the rest.
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - DavidSt - 05-24-2016 05:25 PM
They were considered a major football school back in the old days, and made it into the AP football polls with the likes of Notre Dame, Penn State and other P5 schools. The idea of moving up to D1 would have brought them back onto the major scene that they were once before. With the lack of major P5 schools back then? Their rivals may have been Minnesota at the time.
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - Cyniclone - 05-24-2016 06:41 PM
(05-24-2016 05:18 PM)dbackjon Wrote:(05-24-2016 05:14 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:(05-24-2016 03:11 PM)MplsBison Wrote: There are absolute a few schools in the MIAC and WIAC conferences that should be forced out of DIII.
When you dominate that much, for that long ... it gets old! Let someone else have a chance.
How do you force a non-scholarship athletic department out of a non-scholarship athletic division? Force them to offer schollies? Or make them compete against scholarship-issuing programs while not giving any themselves?
Put a max school size on the division?
St. Thomas is double the size of the next largest conference member, and 3-5 times the size of the rest.
But then what do they do? If they go up to D-2, they either have to give scholarships, which obviously they're not interested in doing, or they face a significant competitive disadvantage playing against scholarship programs.
You could split D-3 into small school and big school subdivisions, or public and private subdivisions (the big D-3s are mostly public), but that waters down the postseason.
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - MplsBison - 05-25-2016 09:38 AM
HA! Waters down the 32 team playoff post season?? DIII is a huge subdivision, with an enormous spectrum of institutions.
Frankly, it's not the problem of the rest of DIII schools what St Thomas, Wisc-Whitewater, etc. do in DII. They can give athletic scholarships if they want, or they can keep on "not giving athletic scholarships" (WINK WINK WINK, NUDGE NUDGE NUDGE).
They need to be forced upward in competition.
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - DavidSt - 05-25-2016 02:53 PM
They had a chance on going to D1 when they could and park their football in the Pioneer League. They have to play in D2 for 8 years before they can move up to D1.
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - Cyniclone - 05-25-2016 03:00 PM
(05-25-2016 09:38 AM)MplsBison Wrote: HA! Waters down the 32 team playoff post season?? DIII is a huge subdivision, with an enormous spectrum of institutions.
Frankly, it's not the problem of the rest of DIII schools what St Thomas, Wisc-Whitewater, etc. do in DII. They can give athletic scholarships if they want, or they can keep on "not giving athletic scholarships" (WINK WINK WINK, NUDGE NUDGE NUDGE).
They need to be forced upward in competition.
Why? Because they're successful? They're not the largest D-3 in the country and even if they were, this isn't high school athletics where schools are divvied up by enrollment. You can't force a D-3 to give scholarships or play in a scholarship division.
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - DavidSt - 05-25-2016 03:07 PM
New York U. is the largest in D3 with over 40,000 students.
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - MplsBison - 05-25-2016 03:17 PM
But you can vote them out of DIII. That's not forcing them to do anything.
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - Cyniclone - 05-25-2016 03:25 PM
(05-25-2016 03:17 PM)MplsBison Wrote: But you can vote them out of DIII. That's not forcing them to do anything.
Great, so we're voting schools out of DIII for winning too many games? Unless I'm missing something, they're playing by the same rules that other D3 schools play by, but because they're too successful at it, we're going to expel them. So they're compelled to either play in a scholarship classification, which they're not interested in doing, drop to NAIA, or, what, disband the department?
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - MplsBison - 05-25-2016 03:30 PM
Not the DIII schools' problem.
There is precedent. See the Dayton Rule of the early 90's.
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - dbackjon - 05-25-2016 03:33 PM
(05-25-2016 03:30 PM)MplsBison Wrote: Not the DIII schools' problem.
There is precedent. See the Dayton Rule of the early 90's.
That was one sport. Dayton was not a member of DIII, but a DI member playing a sport in DIII.
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - MplsBison - 05-25-2016 04:46 PM
All the same. Bye, bye St Thomas, St Johns, Whitewater, etc
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - dbackjon - 05-25-2016 05:09 PM
(05-25-2016 04:46 PM)MplsBison Wrote: All the same. Bye, bye St Thomas, St Johns, Whitewater, etc
this is just a ploy to get NDSU to FBS - a relegation/promotion system.
If you can advocate for St. Thomas to be forced to DII, then you are advocating for NDSU to be forced to FBS...
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - FargoBison - 05-25-2016 05:16 PM
Why should they be kicked out? They are in a conference of peer schools that they have a long history competing against. I doubt they have the slightest bit of interest in joining a conference like the NSIC in DII.
I think only a move straight to DI would be of any interest to a school like St Thomas.
RE: St Thomas MN | Division III Powerhouse - NoDak - 05-25-2016 08:39 PM
The deceased DII North Central Conference tried to get St Thomas to move up when NDSU, SDSU, and NoCol moved to DI. St Thomas was rather emphatic with a no. Now, a DIII is forbidden from going DI directly, and it takes many years to go from DIII to DI, as a stop in DII for five years is required and a two year transition to DII and a four year DI transition. That's beyond the tenure term of many DIII presidents.