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Mythical new Western FBS conference - MJG - 05-21-2016 04:04 PM
Here is some numbers I was curious not saying it can happen.
UND-24m budget 44% subsidy renovated arena new IPF attendance around 11k.
Stadium seats 13k the on campus stadium next to the IPF could be expanded.
NDSU-22m budget 36% subsidy renovated arena attendance is 19k an expansion to 21k SRO is planned with suites.
Montana -23m budget 36% 7500 seat arena 25k stadium attendance is 23k.
New performance center is in the planning stages with the possibility of some seating on top of it.
Montana ST-19m budget 53% subsidy nice arena 19k stadium 16k attendance.
Idaho 19.5 million budget 53% subsidy 14k attendance arena is in fundraising mode.
Cheap expansion options to 20500 would be needed weight room performance center video board are all done.
NMSU 27m budget 68% subsidy 14k attendance 30k stadium 7500 seat arena .
South Dakota ST 16m 50% subsidy 19500 seat stadium 6k arena 16k attendance.
Stadium is new this coming year so revenue should grow.
Sacramento St 22m 81% subsidy stadium 22k arena is being planned.
Portland St 15m budget 73% subsidy 19500 seat stadium arena renovation is planned.
Looking at the Virginia law allowing 55% subsidy for FBS and 70% for FCS most of the conference is under the 55%.
Subsidies tend to go up as level of athletics goes down P5-G5-FCS to non football being the highest.The Sun Belt for example has an average budget of 21 million when these numbers were published 2013-14 . Only four SBC schools have subsidies under 55% Idaho the Louisiana schools and Ark St.
I picked the Sun Belt to compare because I could easily look at their numbers and they have the lowest G5 revenue.Factor in money games and CFP and the mythical conferences numbers compare pretty well.
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - BePcr07 - 05-21-2016 05:20 PM
I'd like to see the following - presuming New Mexico St finds a home in CUSA/Sun Belt at some point:
Sacramento St
Cal Poly
Portland St
Eastern Washington
Idaho
Idaho St
Montana
Montana St
North Dakota
North Dakota St
South Dakota
South Dakota St
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - theultimateaggie - 05-21-2016 05:25 PM
(05-21-2016 04:04 PM)MJG Wrote: Here is some numbers I was curious not saying it can happen.
UND-24m budget 44% subsidy renovated arena new IPF attendance around 11k.
Stadium seats 13k the on campus stadium next to the IPF could be expanded.
NDSU-22m budget 36% subsidy renovated arena attendance is 19k an expansion to 21k SRO is planned with suites.
Montana -23m budget 36% 7500 seat arena 25k stadium attendance is 23k.
New performance center is in the planning stages with the possibility of some seating on top of it.
Montana ST-19m budget 53% subsidy nice arena 19k stadium 16k attendance.
Idaho 19.5 million budget 53% subsidy 14k attendance arena is in fundraising mode.
Cheap expansion options to 20500 would be needed weight room performance center video board are all done.
NMSU 27m budget 68% subsidy 14k attendance 30k stadium 7500 seat arena .
South Dakota ST 16m 50% subsidy 19500 seat stadium 6k arena 16k attendance.
Stadium is new this coming year so revenue should grow.
Sacramento St 22m 81% subsidy stadium 22k arena is being planned.
Portland St 15m budget 73% subsidy 19500 seat stadium arena renovation is planned.
Looking at the Virginia law allowing 55% subsidy for FBS and 70% for FCS most of the conference is under the 55%.
Subsidies tend to go up as level of athletics goes down P5-G5-FCS to non football being the highest.The Sun Belt for example has an average budget of 21 million when these numbers were published 2013-14 . Only four SBC schools have subsidies under 55% Idaho the Louisiana schools and Ark St.
I picked the Sun Belt to compare because I could easily look at their numbers and they have the lowest G5 revenue.Factor in money games and CFP and the mythical conferences numbers compare pretty well.
If you are talking about our basketball arena the pan american center then it is 12,500 seat arena.
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - HawaiiMongoose - 05-21-2016 06:27 PM
The mythical FBS conference could be real if at least seven of those schools agreed en masse to join NMSU in the WAC, begin the FBS transition process, and play as FBS independents until completing the transition. NCAA rules would permit it. But there's no indication that the requisite willpower exists.
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - LUSportsFan - 05-21-2016 06:55 PM
(05-21-2016 06:27 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote: The mythical FBS conference could be a real if at least seven of those schools agreed en masse to join NMSU in the WAC, begin the FBS transition process, and play as FBS independents until completing the transition. NCAA rules would permit it. But there's no indication that the requisite willpower exists.
You might be able to add some others like Lamar in Texas. The football stadium is currently at 16,000 with SRO over 20,000 utilizing the endzone berms. The stadium was set up for 28,000 future capacity during the 2009-10 renovation. The basketball arena has seating for 10,080. The university demonstrated the ability to raise funds from private donations during the last campaign. $132 million was raised with an original goal of $75 million.
Admittedly, it would be better to have a partner.
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - MJG - 05-21-2016 08:02 PM
(05-21-2016 05:25 PM)theultimateaggie Wrote:Sorry maybe attendance was 7500 .(05-21-2016 04:04 PM)MJG Wrote: Here is some numbers I was curious not saying it can happen.
UND-24m budget 44% subsidy renovated arena new IPF attendance around 11k.
Stadium seats 13k the on campus stadium next to the IPF could be expanded.
NDSU-22m budget 36% subsidy renovated arena attendance is 19k an expansion to 21k SRO is planned with suites.
Montana -23m budget 36% 7500 seat arena 25k stadium attendance is 23k.
New performance center is in the planning stages with the possibility of some seating on top of it.
Montana ST-19m budget 53% subsidy nice arena 19k stadium 16k attendance.
Idaho 19.5 million budget 53% subsidy 14k attendance arena is in fundraising mode.
Cheap expansion options to 20500 would be needed weight room performance center video board are all done.
NMSU 27m budget 68% subsidy 14k attendance 30k stadium 7500 seat arena .
South Dakota ST 16m 50% subsidy 19500 seat stadium 6k arena 16k attendance.
Stadium is new this coming year so revenue should grow.
Sacramento St 22m 81% subsidy stadium 22k arena is being planned.
Portland St 15m budget 73% subsidy 19500 seat stadium arena renovation is planned.
Looking at the Virginia law allowing 55% subsidy for FBS and 70% for FCS most of the conference is under the 55%.
Subsidies tend to go up as level of athletics goes down P5-G5-FCS to non football being the highest.The Sun Belt for example has an average budget of 21 million when these numbers were published 2013-14 . Only four SBC schools have subsidies under 55% Idaho the Louisiana schools and Ark St.
I picked the Sun Belt to compare because I could easily look at their numbers and they have the lowest G5 revenue.Factor in money games and CFP and the mythical conferences numbers compare pretty well.
If you are talking about our basketball arena the pan american center then it is 12,500 seat arena.
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - MJG - 05-21-2016 08:12 PM
Six of nine are under 55% subsidies with an average of 20.7 million.
That is without CFP money or FBS money games for seven of the schools.
Idaho and NMSU receiving less than full shares of conference revenue.
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - DavidSt - 05-21-2016 08:50 PM
I would not count out UTRGV, Wichita State and West Texas A&M. West Texas A&M had a home attendance at one time over 22,000 back in the middle 2000s. That is more than 2000 than what is allow. I think for fire code purposes, the stadiums are listed under what they could hold.
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - NoDak - 05-21-2016 09:04 PM
I would include USD, as once it completes it's new 6000 seat BB arena, it will have better facilities than Idaho. It's Dakota Dome will be renovated to seat more than 16k, as it can take out the seats that were needed for buckets and make that dome more expansive. It has also just completed an outdoor track complex and a outdoor soccer field. That Dome formerly had nearly all their programs but swimming and golf.
Would also say that Idaho consultants report created quite a stir on Dakota message boards, as it was designed to do. The XDSU's don't want anything to do with the Big Sky, as they believe it is beneath them and they have more upside now with basketball. When UND actually goes FBS, there will be widespread panic at those schools because their fans don't believe it will actually happen, much like this forum.
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - NoDak - 05-21-2016 09:15 PM
As a reminder, UND almost certainly has the largest true budget of the above field, as all of its ticket dollars past through our hockey arena charitable trust, which takes 52% of the price to pay for upkeep and staffing. It also gets considerable revenue from suites, concessions, advertising, parking, concerts etc, which goes to the arena too, as it built with bonds the new basketball facility. North Dakota schools cannot bond for athletic facilities, but charitable trusts can. UND will have full ownership of the hockey arena complex next decade, so the total budget will appear to go much higher then.
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - BearcatJerry - 05-21-2016 10:04 PM
Dayum, some of you have way too much time on your hands... The trend is not going to more FBS conferences, but FEWER FBS conferences.
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - LatahCounty - 05-22-2016 12:20 AM
(05-21-2016 10:04 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote: Dayum, some of you have way too much time on your hands... The trend is not going to more FBS conferences, but FEWER FBS conferences.
Not that I believe a new FBS conference is happening tomorrow, but I also don't think a sample size of 1 conference in 20 years and one team in history constitutes a trend of moving away from FBS.
Mythical new Western FBS conference - chargeradio - 05-22-2016 06:41 AM
The G5 also have no incentive to consolidate like the P5 do - the CFP contract is set up in a way that makes it very costly for conferences to expand beyond 10 teams.
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RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - Wedge - 05-22-2016 11:56 AM
(05-22-2016 06:41 AM)chargeradio Wrote: The G5 also have no incentive to consolidate like the P5 do - the CFP contract is set up in a way that makes it very costly for conferences to expand beyond 10 teams.
The G5 made that rule themselves, about dividing up the G5 share of CFP money. They could just as easily vote to change how the money is distributed and remove that "cap".
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - ken d - 05-22-2016 12:56 PM
(05-22-2016 11:56 AM)Wedge Wrote:(05-22-2016 06:41 AM)chargeradio Wrote: The G5 also have no incentive to consolidate like the P5 do - the CFP contract is set up in a way that makes it very costly for conferences to expand beyond 10 teams.
The G5 made that rule themselves, about dividing up the G5 share of CFP money. They could just as easily vote to change how the money is distributed and remove that "cap".
But, as long as the total share of the CFP money for the G5 remains the same (and I have no reason to assume that the P5 would increase it to accommodate a new conference) then each current G5 conference would see its share reduced. I don't see that happening.
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - MJG - 05-22-2016 01:11 PM
(05-22-2016 12:56 PM)ken d Wrote:(05-22-2016 11:56 AM)Wedge Wrote:(05-22-2016 06:41 AM)chargeradio Wrote: The G5 also have no incentive to consolidate like the P5 do - the CFP contract is set up in a way that makes it very costly for conferences to expand beyond 10 teams.
The G5 made that rule themselves, about dividing up the G5 share of CFP money. They could just as easily vote to change how the money is distributed and remove that "cap".
But, as long as the total share of the CFP money for the G5 remains the same (and I have no reason to assume that the P5 would increase it to accommodate a new conference) then each current G5 conference would see its share reduced. I don't see that happening.
There is a strong chance the G5 money goes down or stays the same as the P5 increases.
The G5 bring nothing to the table as far as the CFP.
After twelve years of no participation in the playoffs they could be left out.
The NCAA has no control and the P5 might decide to keep all of their money.
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - HawaiiMongoose - 05-22-2016 02:36 PM
(05-22-2016 01:11 PM)MJG Wrote:(05-22-2016 12:56 PM)ken d Wrote:(05-22-2016 11:56 AM)Wedge Wrote:(05-22-2016 06:41 AM)chargeradio Wrote: The G5 also have no incentive to consolidate like the P5 do - the CFP contract is set up in a way that makes it very costly for conferences to expand beyond 10 teams.
The G5 made that rule themselves, about dividing up the G5 share of CFP money. They could just as easily vote to change how the money is distributed and remove that "cap".
But, as long as the total share of the CFP money for the G5 remains the same (and I have no reason to assume that the P5 would increase it to accommodate a new conference) then each current G5 conference would see its share reduced. I don't see that happening.
There is a strong chance the G5 money goes down or stays the same as the P5 increases.
The G5 bring nothing to the table as far as the CFP.
After twelve years of no participation in the playoffs they could be left out.
The NCAA has no control and the P5 might decide to keep all of their money.
It's not just about the playoff. It's in the P5's interest to keep the G5 just well enough funded to remain viable but not well enough funded to be a consistent competitive threat. That way P5 schools can keep playing and usually winning home OOC games against G5 schools, avoiding the negative SOS impacts of scheduling FCS schools while still padding their win-loss records to keep fans happy, coaches employed, and bowl appearances frequent. Provided there's at least a theoretical opportunity for a top G5 school to reach the playoff to go along with the G5's 20% cut of the cash, it's a classic symbiotic relationship that works for both parties.
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - hawghiggs - 05-22-2016 02:39 PM
Having a conference based on Idaho, Montana, and the Dakotas would be awesome. If somehow Wyoming became available it would be even better.
Mythical new Western FBS conference - chargeradio - 05-22-2016 04:03 PM
(05-22-2016 02:39 PM)hawghiggs Wrote: Having a conference based on Idaho, Montana, and the Dakotas would be awesome. If somehow Wyoming became available it would be even better.If the G5 pool of monies were available to the WAC, and Colorado State joined the Big 12, Wyoming would have to think long and hard about it - but right now Wyoming would be taking a huge pay cut in leaving the Mountain West.
RE: Mythical new Western FBS conference - MplsBison - 05-22-2016 04:49 PM
The CFP is not a roadblock to a new FBS conference. The new conference can simply be excluded from the deal, since it wasn't apart of the negotiations that led to it. FBS and CFP are not bonded in any sense. It just so happens that the current ten FBS conferences, and Notre Dame, own and manage the CFP. But it's not any kind of requirement, either from the CFP's point of view or the NCAA's point of view.
NoDak, as far as "there will be widespread panic at those schools because their fans don't believe it will actually happen" goes, you know full well that your dream can't happen without the xDSU schools' cooperation and buy-in from the forefront. So there could never be any such "surprise and panic" scenario, even if that would make your day.