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+---- Thread: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. (/thread-777941.html)
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Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - NoDak - 04-18-2016 12:33 AM
Simon Fraser just completed its five year probation period in DII, so now it's eligible to move it's club hockey team to DI. Since NAIA doesn't have hockey, that was the rationale all along when joining the NCAA. Simon Fraser has a rink near campus and choices of several bigger arenas off campus to play in. The Province is reporting that SFU will make an announcement by fall.
The WCHA has been wanting more teams in the west to allow a divisiona, setup with the Alaska teams, thereby saving travel money and time for its Midwestern members.
This is what the new WCHA may look like.
East
Bowling Green, UAH, Ferris St, Lake Superior St
Central
Michigan Tech, N Michigan, Bemidji St, Minn St-Mankato
West
Minot St, Simon Fraser, Ala-Anchorage, Alaska
If Ariz St and BGSU move to the NCHC, expect Lindenwood to take BGSU'S slot.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - DavidSt - 04-18-2016 03:14 AM
This looks like some signs I have pointed at in another thread about some D2 schools moving up to D1. Imagine what it would be like for a D1 conference to get a school in Vancouver British Columbia?
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - C2__ - 04-18-2016 03:15 AM
It would sound kinda awkward if SF ever won the NCAA title. Would they be called national champions? Would they hold that title every year based on them being the only Canadian team? Things to ponder while up at ~3 AM~.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - HuskyU - 04-18-2016 06:25 AM
(04-18-2016 03:15 AM)_C2_ Wrote: It would sound kinda awkward if SF ever won the NCAA title. Would they be called national champions? Would they hold that title every year based on them being the only Canadian team? Things to ponder while up at ~3 AM~.
Canada already has the Raptors in the NBA and multiple NHL franchises. It wouldn't be that awkward for colleges to follow.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - MWC Tex - 04-18-2016 06:59 AM
(04-18-2016 03:15 AM)_C2_ Wrote: It would sound kinda awkward if SF ever won the NCAA title. Would they be called national champions? Would they hold that title every year based on them being the only Canadian team? Things to ponder while up at ~3 AM~.
The official title for all championships is NCAA D1 Champions. The 'national' part is what the fans and media add in. Just as in NAIA, they are just the NAIA Champions even though there are schools outside the US.
The bigger question is do they want to go D1 in all sports? If they are allowed to, I think they have the desire to move to D1. They play football so they would have to be FCS independent unless the Big Sky is willing to add their football as an affiliate while the rest could be in the WAC.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - NoDak - 04-18-2016 07:59 AM
DI does not allow foreign members as of now. That doesn't apply to foreign schools that wa t to move single sports up.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - MWC Tex - 04-18-2016 08:16 AM
(04-18-2016 07:59 AM)NoDak Wrote: DI does not allow foreign members as of now. That doesn't apply to foreign schools that wa t to move single sports up.
They may be happy at the D2 level, but I think the current and previous presidents they had would like to be at the highest level of the NCAA (from previous articles I've read). We'll see how the D1 council will approach them and look at the results of the pilot program started 5 years ago.
It may be a few more years before they would be able to, but have to wonder if the NCAA will ever allow foreign colleges to the D1 level.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - Frank the Tank - 04-18-2016 09:48 AM
(04-18-2016 08:16 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:(04-18-2016 07:59 AM)NoDak Wrote: DI does not allow foreign members as of now. That doesn't apply to foreign schools that wa t to move single sports up.
They may be happy at the D2 level, but I think the current and previous presidents they had would like to be at the highest level of the NCAA (from previous articles I've read). We'll see how the D1 council will approach them and look at the results of the pilot program started 5 years ago.
It may be a few more years before they would be able to, but have to wonder if the NCAA will ever allow foreign colleges to the D1 level.
If there's money to be made, I think it could happen.
There are plenty of US schools that would likely rather see the likes of University of Toronto and McGill University in Division I compared to elevating lower tier US counterparts.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - NoDak - 04-18-2016 11:30 AM
(04-18-2016 09:48 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:(04-18-2016 08:16 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:(04-18-2016 07:59 AM)NoDak Wrote: DI does not allow foreign members as of now. That doesn't apply to foreign schools that wa t to move single sports up.
They may be happy at the D2 level, but I think the current and previous presidents they had would like to be at the highest level of the NCAA (from previous articles I've read). We'll see how the D1 council will approach them and look at the results of the pilot program started 5 years ago.
It may be a few more years before they would be able to, but have to wonder if the NCAA will ever allow foreign colleges to the D1 level.
If there's money to be made, I think it could happen.
There are plenty of US schools that would likely rather see the likes of University of Toronto and McGill University in Division I compared to elevating lower tier US counterparts.
UBC looked at moving to DII and placing many programs like volleyball, baseball, and hockey in DI when the rules used to allow that. But pressure from the CIS, their NCAA counterpart, and some Canadian academic types is believed to have stopped the move.
SFU was already an NAIA member, so it's NCAA move didn't upset Canadian sensibilities much, which take pride in the Canadian system.
Canada hasn't exactly taken to NCAA college hockey, as their major juniors are practically a nation wide league that gets much support. NCAA hockey at SFU has a lot of work to do to change mindsets. If SFU can get home grown talent that gets drafted by the NHL, that would turn heads.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - Frank the Tank - 04-18-2016 11:44 AM
(04-18-2016 11:30 AM)NoDak Wrote:(04-18-2016 09:48 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:(04-18-2016 08:16 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:(04-18-2016 07:59 AM)NoDak Wrote: DI does not allow foreign members as of now. That doesn't apply to foreign schools that wa t to move single sports up.
They may be happy at the D2 level, but I think the current and previous presidents they had would like to be at the highest level of the NCAA (from previous articles I've read). We'll see how the D1 council will approach them and look at the results of the pilot program started 5 years ago.
It may be a few more years before they would be able to, but have to wonder if the NCAA will ever allow foreign colleges to the D1 level.
If there's money to be made, I think it could happen.
There are plenty of US schools that would likely rather see the likes of University of Toronto and McGill University in Division I compared to elevating lower tier US counterparts.
UBC looked at moving to DII and placing many programs like volleyball, baseball, and hockey in DI when the rules used to allow that. But pressure from the CIS, their NCAA counterpart, and some Canadian academic types is believed to have stopped the move.
SFU was already an NAIA member, so it's NCAA move didn't upset Canadian sensibilities much, which take pride in the Canadian system.
Canada hasn't exactly taken to NCAA college hockey, as their major juniors are practically a nation wide league that gets much support. NCAA hockey at SFU has a lot of work to do to change mindsets. If SFU can get home grown talent that gets drafted by the NHL, that would turn heads.
True. I think that many of us (Americans) mistakenly assume that Canadian college hockey teams are supposed to be high-level and on par with US college teams, but the reality is that the Canadian teams are behind us because of Canada's emphasis on junior hockey for top young players.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - MWC Tex - 04-18-2016 12:02 PM
(04-18-2016 11:30 AM)NoDak Wrote:(04-18-2016 09:48 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:(04-18-2016 08:16 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:(04-18-2016 07:59 AM)NoDak Wrote: DI does not allow foreign members as of now. That doesn't apply to foreign schools that wa t to move single sports up.
They may be happy at the D2 level, but I think the current and previous presidents they had would like to be at the highest level of the NCAA (from previous articles I've read). We'll see how the D1 council will approach them and look at the results of the pilot program started 5 years ago.
It may be a few more years before they would be able to, but have to wonder if the NCAA will ever allow foreign colleges to the D1 level.
If there's money to be made, I think it could happen.
There are plenty of US schools that would likely rather see the likes of University of Toronto and McGill University in Division I compared to elevating lower tier US counterparts.
UBC looked at moving to DII and placing many programs like volleyball, baseball, and hockey in DI when the rules used to allow that. But pressure from the CIS, their NCAA counterpart, and some Canadian academic types is believed to have stopped the move.
SFU was already an NAIA member, so it's NCAA move didn't upset Canadian sensibilities much, which take pride in the Canadian system.
Canada hasn't exactly taken to NCAA college hockey, as their major juniors are practically a nation wide league that gets much support. NCAA hockey at SFU has a lot of work to do to change mindsets. If SFU can get home grown talent that gets drafted by the NHL, that would turn heads.
SFU has been an outsider from the get go. The funny about this is the UBC started the petition to join the NCAA and it was because of them that the NCAA started the pilot program at the D2 level to see how or if they can adjust to the NCAA recruiting rules and etc. SFU took advantage and is running away with it.
Their first president wanted to be in the NCAA and imagined themselves playing their football team in the Rose Bowl.
Here is a nice Q&A from their new AD (formerly from UBC who start the NCAA petition).
http://blogs.theprovince.com/2016/04/16/qa-simon-fraser-ad-theresa-hanson-looks-forward-to-forging-brave-new-future-for-the-clan/
Article about the differences for SFU and nice quote that when the school was constructed in 1965, they were intent on playing exclusively in the US.
http://www.macleans.ca/education/uniandcollege/simon-fraser-prepares-for-first-year-in-the-ncaa/
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - Captain Bearcat - 04-19-2016 10:04 AM
It's a big school - 35,000 students, $400 million endowment. So the potential is there if they can get people to buy into the NCAA.
I looked to see if there were a lot of Americans in the student body. 17% of the student body is non-Canadians, but 3/4 of the foreigners are from China, Hong Kong, or Korea. So not really.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - Phlipper33 - 11-09-2016 06:15 PM
Can't seem to find anything on this recently. Has anyone heard of any news regarding possible move to D1 hockey? Does no news mean its not happening?
I'd really love to see this happen and be successful, could put some pressure on BC to join the NCAA as they were trying to do a few years back. I'd be pretty happy merging the CIS and NCAA into one organization, erase the national boundaries of the two.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - NoDak - 11-09-2016 06:29 PM
(11-09-2016 06:15 PM)Phlipper33 Wrote: Can't seem to find anything on this recently. Has anyone heard of any news regarding possible move to D1 hockey? Does no news mean its not happening?
I'd really love to see this happen and be successful, could put some pressure on BC to join the NCAA as they were trying to do a few years back. I'd be pretty happy merging the CIS and NCAA into one organization, erase the national boundaries of the two.
The two Alaska schools are waiting on a waiver to allow them to only have 8 DII sports, rather than ten. For a while, it looked like the Anchorage and Fairbanks athletic programs would be merged, with hockey going to Fairbanks. Kind of expect that the WCHA would form a western division of the Alaska schools, Simon Fraser, and maybe Minot St, which would vastly reduce travel costs for the other schools. Not having to travel to Alaska twice is a big enticement of Michigan and Minnesota schools. Vancouver travel is a barginew relatively speaking.
A CIS and NCAA merger won't happen, as Canadians aren't that into college sports and would resent further NCAA / American sports encroachment on them.
UBC was actively seeking to do the same thing as Simon Fraser a couple years ago, but rejected it as the NCAA requires American accrediting agencies. Also, foreign DI teams isn't allowed yet for all sports, hockey being an exception, because DII doesn't sponsor it.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - DavidSt - 11-10-2016 09:05 AM
(11-09-2016 06:29 PM)NoDak Wrote:(11-09-2016 06:15 PM)Phlipper33 Wrote: Can't seem to find anything on this recently. Has anyone heard of any news regarding possible move to D1 hockey? Does no news mean its not happening?
I'd really love to see this happen and be successful, could put some pressure on BC to join the NCAA as they were trying to do a few years back. I'd be pretty happy merging the CIS and NCAA into one organization, erase the national boundaries of the two.
The two Alaska schools are waiting on a waiver to allow them to only have 8 DII sports, rather than ten. For a while, it looked like the Anchorage and Fairbanks athletic programs would be merged, with hockey going to Fairbanks. Kind of expect that the WCHA would form a western division of the Alaska schools, Simon Fraser, and maybe Minot St, which would vastly reduce travel costs for the other schools. Not having to travel to Alaska twice is a big enticement of Michigan and Minnesota schools. Vancouver travel is a barginew relatively speaking.
A CIS and NCAA merger won't happen, as Canadians aren't that into college sports and would resent further NCAA / American sports encroachment on them.
UBC was actively seeking to do the same thing as Simon Fraser a couple years ago, but rejected it as the NCAA requires American accrediting agencies. Also, foreign DI teams isn't allowed yet for all sports, hockey being an exception, because DII doesn't sponsor it.
There are several men and women's club hockey in the west that they could put them up. Central Washington, Boise State, Western Washington, Northern Arizona, Central Oklahoma, Colorado State, Missouri State, Dallas Baptist, North Texas, UTEP, Texas State, BYU, Grand Canyon, Montana State, Montana Tech, Utah State, Wyoming, Weber State, North Dakota State, Fullerton State, Northridge State, Long Beach State, Loyola Marymount, San Diego State, Cal.-Lutheran, San Francisco State, Santa Clara, Cal.-Davis, Cal.-San Diego, Cal.-Santa Barbara, Cal.-Santa Cruz, Eastern Washington, Gonzaga, Idaho, UNLV, Northern Colorado, Portland State, San Jose State, SMU, Utah Valley, Air Force, Colorado-Colorado Springs, Colorado Mesa, Colorado Mines, Fort Lewis, New Mexico, South Dakota State, Western State. Any of these schools could add both men and women's teams to help out. Minot State could go in the east.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - NoDak - 11-10-2016 04:49 PM
DavidSt:
Most of Those club teams don't play in decent seating arenas, which need at least 3000 seats to break even.
Ariz St still doesn't have an arena, except when they play a few games in the Coyotes arena. ASU might join the WCHA with Simon Fraser, as it would give ASU a route to the playoffs. When ASU announces a new arena near campus, I'm sure they are NCHC bound then - with a decent and built arena.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - LastMinuteman - 11-10-2016 06:07 PM
I always thought it would take the Canadian equivalent of Liberty University to break into NCAA Division I, meaning a private university with unusual ambition and fanatical donors. I was surprised to learn that Simon Fraser is in fact a major public university, ranked 12th nationally. Every Canadian I've spoken to thinks the concept of a state-owned institution offering financial incentives to students so that the university can operate a sports entertainment business (at an almost guaranteed loss) is ridiculous. Which, in fairness, it is. We're just used to it.
I'm also surprised that there wasn't a big pushback on them playing football by American instead of Canadian rules, which they're doing in Division II. That's public money funding their rival nation's product while diminishing their own football, which is already in decline. Again, I could see a private university making that decision, just not a public one. I thought the whole reason the NFL hadn't expanded into Canada was because there'd be a national outcry. If it's no big deal, why is the NFL messing around with the idea of an expansion franchise in England? Toronto makes much more sense.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - lumberpack4 - 11-10-2016 06:36 PM
(11-10-2016 06:07 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote: I always thought it would take the Canadian equivalent of Liberty University to break into NCAA Division I, meaning a private university with unusual ambition and fanatical donors. I was surprised to learn that Simon Fraser is in fact a major public university, ranked 12th nationally. Every Canadian I've spoken to thinks the concept of a state-owned institution offering financial incentives to students so that the university can operate a sports entertainment business (at an almost guaranteed loss) is ridiculous. Which, in fairness, it is. We're just used to it.
I'm also surprised that there wasn't a big pushback on them playing football by American instead of Canadian rules, which they're doing in Division II. That's public money funding their rival nation's product while diminishing their own football, which is already in decline. Again, I could see a private university making that decision, just not a public one. I thought the whole reason the NFL hadn't expanded into Canada was because there'd be a national outcry. If it's no big deal, why is the NFL messing around with the idea of an expansion franchise in England? Toronto makes much more sense.
The NFL issue is between Toronto and Buffalo, same situation applies to Seattle and Vancouver and Quebec is filled with Frenchies who really don't appreciate English speakers who don't respect their language enough to even parlez.
The NFL will not vote to hurt Seattle or Buffalo. Montreal and Ottawa don't have legitimate stadiums. Have you been to Calgary or Halifax without flying in? Beautiful country the Rockies and the Atlantic Coast, but damn freaking isolated.
Frank better be careful talking about monetizing Canada, some crazy NC State folks will clippity clop over to hammer you.
U Toronto could put a bad P-5 squad out there next year if they so desired, but the politics are thus - Toronto will only join the B10, rejoining old AAU academic buddies. If you are a college president without football and doing just fine, adding football is like having a beautiful wife and taking a risk on one night skank who WILL give you the Herpes.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - NoDak - 11-10-2016 07:23 PM
Simon Fraser has almost always played American schools, mostly NAIA, since it started nearly 60 years ago. There are now numerous BC universities, but Canadian travel by air would have been expensive back when it started. UBC could afford Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba travel, while SFU couldnt. BC high schools also play American rules football, so the NCAA doesn't go so much against SFU's traditions.
RE: Vancouver BC paper reporting that Simon Fraser will likely move to DI in hockey. - NoDak - 11-13-2016 07:02 PM
Alaska schools were denied permission to drop to eight sports each in DII, as the NCAA says it doesn't give permission to violate rules but does grant forgiveness in some cases. So the Alaska schools won't merge and won't cut sports, but they do have some major fundraising ahead of them.
Think the WCHA will now grant Simon Fraser membership and grant Ariz St a slot for two years, as that should save the whole conference some major travel costs if a bona fide western division is formed. UAA and UAF have to underwrite some of the travel costs to Alaska by eastern and central time zone teams.