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If Josh is Right? - Trapper John - 04-07-2016 01:10 AM
What if Coach Pastner is right, and the new norm is multiple players transferring from every team each year? If this is the new norm, does it change your perspective on college basketball? I still prefer the college game experience over the NBA, but the one-and-done's and the sustained success of the Grizzlies have driven me closer to the NBA. If a new coach took over, and we saw the same number of transfers in and out each year, how many fans would simply be done with college basketball? I know Memphis has had a high number of transfers, but we're not the only ones. And maybe losing a player like Dedric to the draft is one thing, but losing a player like Avery to transfer when Josh stuck with him in spite of criticism is something altogether different.
RE: If Josh is Right? - stratecashomie - 04-07-2016 01:22 AM
(04-07-2016 01:10 AM)Trapper John Wrote: What if Coach Pastner is right, and the new norm is multiple players transferring from every team each year? If this is the new norm, does it change your perspective on college basketball? I still prefer the college game experience over the NBA, but the one-and-done's and the sustained success of the Grizzlies have driven me closer to the NBA. If a new coach took over, and we saw the same number of transfers in and out each year, how many fans would simply be done with college basketball? I know Memphis has had a high number of transfers, but we're not the only ones. And maybe losing a player like Dedric to the draft is one thing, but losing a player like Avery to transfer when Josh stuck with him in spite of criticism is something altogether different.
i wouldnt care as long as we were winning - the culture around the program and the best guys leaving are the reason why the mass transferring is a problem.
RE: If Josh is Right? - John44932 - 04-07-2016 02:25 AM
Josh isn't right about anything.
RE: If Josh is Right? - Trapper John - 04-07-2016 02:33 AM
I guess part of my question is based in the fact that the Grizzlies have players that have been here for years and years. If the new norm for college is that nobody is really here more than a couple of years, then how do you really grow interest in individual players? How do you have a rooting interest for anything more than the name on the front of the jersey?
RE: If Josh is Right? - TIGERBUDDY - 04-07-2016 05:39 AM
(04-07-2016 02:33 AM)Trapper John Wrote: I guess part of my question is based in the fact that the Grizzlies have players that have been here for years and years. If the new norm for college is that nobody is really here more than a couple of years, then how do you really grow interest in individual players? How do you have a rooting interest for anything more than the name on the front of the jersey?
I agree with you. As a fan I like the idea of really getting to know and be familiar with the players for a full four years like in the old days. You really feel for them when they make mistakes and you really celebrate with them when they make great plays. It also makes for better teams when the players have that long time trust in each other and know exactly what moves your teammate is going to do in each situation.
RE: If Josh is Right? - tigergg - 04-07-2016 06:28 AM
(04-07-2016 01:10 AM)Trapper John Wrote: What if Coach Pastner is right, and the new norm is multiple players transferring from every team each year? If this is the new norm, does it change your perspective on college basketball? I still prefer the college game experience over the NBA, but the one-and-done's and the sustained success of the Grizzlies have driven me closer to the NBA. If a new coach took over, and we saw the same number of transfers in and out each year, how many fans would simply be done with college basketball? I know Memphis has had a high number of transfers, but we're not the only ones. And maybe losing a player like Dedric to the draft is one thing, but losing a player like Avery to transfer when Josh stuck with him in spite of criticism is something altogether different.
Can't say I disagree with you.. The one and done rule along with the transfer rule has really taken a lot of interest away with me.. Nothing could make me like the NBA though.. Nothing against the Grizzlies and I wish them well but I just don't care for the NBA..Not sure which entity the NBA or the NCAA decided on the stupid one and done rule but it sure ruined the College game in my opinion.. The transfer rule is just another thing to take away interest in the College game also IMO..
RE: If Josh is Right? - dan o - 04-07-2016 07:04 AM
(04-07-2016 06:28 AM)tigergg Wrote:(04-07-2016 01:10 AM)Trapper John Wrote: What if Coach Pastner is right, and the new norm is multiple players transferring from every team each year? If this is the new norm, does it change your perspective on college basketball? I still prefer the college game experience over the NBA, but the one-and-done's and the sustained success of the Grizzlies have driven me closer to the NBA. If a new coach took over, and we saw the same number of transfers in and out each year, how many fans would simply be done with college basketball? I know Memphis has had a high number of transfers, but we're not the only ones. And maybe losing a player like Dedric to the draft is one thing, but losing a player like Avery to transfer when Josh stuck with him in spite of criticism is something altogether different.
Can't say I disagree with you.. The one and done rule along with the transfer rule has really taken a lot of interest away with me.. Nothing could make me like the NBA though.. Nothing against the Grizzlies and I wish them well but I just don't care for the NBA..Not sure which entity the NBA or the NCAA decided on the stupid one and done rule but it sure ruined the College game in my opinion.. The transfer rule is just another thing to take away interest in the College game also IMO..
Same here. Just as the free agent rule in baseball took away much of my interest.
RE: If Josh is Right? - Tygrys - 04-07-2016 08:03 AM
(04-07-2016 01:22 AM)stratecashomie Wrote:(04-07-2016 01:10 AM)Trapper John Wrote: What if Coach Pastner is right, and the new norm is multiple players transferring from every team each year? If this is the new norm, does it change your perspective on college basketball? I still prefer the college game experience over the NBA, but the one-and-done's and the sustained success of the Grizzlies have driven me closer to the NBA. If a new coach took over, and we saw the same number of transfers in and out each year, how many fans would simply be done with college basketball? I know Memphis has had a high number of transfers, but we're not the only ones. And maybe losing a player like Dedric to the draft is one thing, but losing a player like Avery to transfer when Josh stuck with him in spite of criticism is something altogether different.
i wouldnt care as long as we were winning - the culture around the program and the best guys leaving are the reason why the mass transferring is a problem.
This is exactly it... Win and nobody cares about transfers, be mediocre and then lose your best players to transfer and it becomes a major issue.
RE: If Josh is Right? - HoopDreams - 04-07-2016 08:11 AM
(04-07-2016 08:03 AM)Tygrys Wrote:(04-07-2016 01:22 AM)stratecashomie Wrote:(04-07-2016 01:10 AM)Trapper John Wrote: What if Coach Pastner is right, and the new norm is multiple players transferring from every team each year? If this is the new norm, does it change your perspective on college basketball? I still prefer the college game experience over the NBA, but the one-and-done's and the sustained success of the Grizzlies have driven me closer to the NBA. If a new coach took over, and we saw the same number of transfers in and out each year, how many fans would simply be done with college basketball? I know Memphis has had a high number of transfers, but we're not the only ones. And maybe losing a player like Dedric to the draft is one thing, but losing a player like Avery to transfer when Josh stuck with him in spite of criticism is something altogether different.
i wouldnt care as long as we were winning - the culture around the program and the best guys leaving are the reason why the mass transferring is a problem.
This is exactly it... Win and nobody cares about transfers, be mediocre and then lose your best players to transfer and it becomes a major issue.
Spot on
RE: If Josh is Right? - rolexjames - 04-07-2016 09:34 AM
(04-07-2016 08:11 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:(04-07-2016 08:03 AM)Tygrys Wrote:(04-07-2016 01:22 AM)stratecashomie Wrote:(04-07-2016 01:10 AM)Trapper John Wrote: What if Coach Pastner is right, and the new norm is multiple players transferring from every team each year? If this is the new norm, does it change your perspective on college basketball? I still prefer the college game experience over the NBA, but the one-and-done's and the sustained success of the Grizzlies have driven me closer to the NBA. If a new coach took over, and we saw the same number of transfers in and out each year, how many fans would simply be done with college basketball? I know Memphis has had a high number of transfers, but we're not the only ones. And maybe losing a player like Dedric to the draft is one thing, but losing a player like Avery to transfer when Josh stuck with him in spite of criticism is something altogether different.
i wouldnt care as long as we were winning - the culture around the program and the best guys leaving are the reason why the mass transferring is a problem.
This is exactly it... Win and nobody cares about transfers, be mediocre and then lose your best players to transfer and it becomes a major issue.
Spot on
Agreed. However, I have to add that it's odd to see players leave when they seem to be in line for a great opportunity. Pookie Powell, Damien Wilson, even Nick King you almost understand, they were buried deep in the bench. But Avery Woodson, and Austin Nichols are baffling. They were in position to be the focal point of the offense.
It reminds me of when Deuce Ford transferred. He said it was because he felt froze out or not getting the ball enough. They ran more plays for Deuce than David Vaughn and Cedric Henderson.
RE: If Josh is Right? - Brother Bluto - 04-07-2016 09:38 AM
(04-07-2016 09:34 AM)rolexjames Wrote:(04-07-2016 08:11 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:(04-07-2016 08:03 AM)Tygrys Wrote:(04-07-2016 01:22 AM)stratecashomie Wrote:(04-07-2016 01:10 AM)Trapper John Wrote: What if Coach Pastner is right, and the new norm is multiple players transferring from every team each year? If this is the new norm, does it change your perspective on college basketball? I still prefer the college game experience over the NBA, but the one-and-done's and the sustained success of the Grizzlies have driven me closer to the NBA. If a new coach took over, and we saw the same number of transfers in and out each year, how many fans would simply be done with college basketball? I know Memphis has had a high number of transfers, but we're not the only ones. And maybe losing a player like Dedric to the draft is one thing, but losing a player like Avery to transfer when Josh stuck with him in spite of criticism is something altogether different.
i wouldnt care as long as we were winning - the culture around the program and the best guys leaving are the reason why the mass transferring is a problem.
This is exactly it... Win and nobody cares about transfers, be mediocre and then lose your best players to transfer and it becomes a major issue.
Spot on
Agreed. However, I have to add that it's odd to see players leave when they seem to be in line for a great opportunity. Pookie Powell, Damien Wilson, even Nick King you almost understand, they were buried deep in the bench. But Avery Woodson, and Austin Nichols are baffling. They were in position to be the focal point of the offense.
It reminds me of when Deuce Ford transferred. He said it was because he felt froze out or not getting the ball enough. They ran more plays for Deuce than David Vaughn and Cedric Henderson.
And Johnny Miller transferred because Deuce got playing time instead of him.
RE: If Josh is Right? - BinghamptonNed - 04-07-2016 09:48 AM
(04-07-2016 06:28 AM)tigergg Wrote:We have had zero one and done players under Josh, Clipart had 3 total. One and done players are still pretty rare.(04-07-2016 01:10 AM)Trapper John Wrote: What if Coach Pastner is right, and the new norm is multiple players transferring from every team each year? If this is the new norm, does it change your perspective on college basketball? I still prefer the college game experience over the NBA, but the one-and-done's and the sustained success of the Grizzlies have driven me closer to the NBA. If a new coach took over, and we saw the same number of transfers in and out each year, how many fans would simply be done with college basketball? I know Memphis has had a high number of transfers, but we're not the only ones. And maybe losing a player like Dedric to the draft is one thing, but losing a player like Avery to transfer when Josh stuck with him in spite of criticism is something altogether different.
Can't say I disagree with you.. The one and done rule along with the transfer rule has really taken a lot of interest away with me.. Nothing could make me like the NBA though.. Nothing against the Grizzlies and I wish them well but I just don't care for the NBA..Not sure which entity the NBA or the NCAA decided on the stupid one and done rule but it sure ruined the College game in my opinion.. The transfer rule is just another thing to take away interest in the College game also IMO..
If you don't know if the NBA or NCAA is responsible for one and done I don't know what to sa
Josh is not right, he is making excuses.
RE: If Josh is Right? - Tiger46 - 04-07-2016 10:08 AM
(04-07-2016 09:34 AM)rolexjames Wrote:(04-07-2016 08:11 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:(04-07-2016 08:03 AM)Tygrys Wrote:(04-07-2016 01:22 AM)stratecashomie Wrote:(04-07-2016 01:10 AM)Trapper John Wrote: What if Coach Pastner is right, and the new norm is multiple players transferring from every team each year? If this is the new norm, does it change your perspective on college basketball? I still prefer the college game experience over the NBA, but the one-and-done's and the sustained success of the Grizzlies have driven me closer to the NBA. If a new coach took over, and we saw the same number of transfers in and out each year, how many fans would simply be done with college basketball? I know Memphis has had a high number of transfers, but we're not the only ones. And maybe losing a player like Dedric to the draft is one thing, but losing a player like Avery to transfer when Josh stuck with him in spite of criticism is something altogether different.
i wouldnt care as long as we were winning - the culture around the program and the best guys leaving are the reason why the mass transferring is a problem.
This is exactly it... Win and nobody cares about transfers, be mediocre and then lose your best players to transfer and it becomes a major issue.
Spot on
Agreed. However, I have to add that it's odd to see players leave when they seem to be in line for a great opportunity. Pookie Powell, Damien Wilson, even Nick King you almost understand, they were buried deep in the bench. But Avery Woodson, and Austin Nichols are baffling. They were in position to be the focal point of the offense.
It reminds me of when Deuce Ford transferred. He said it was because he felt froze out or not getting the ball enough. They ran more plays for Deuce than David Vaughn and Cedric Henderson.
Austin was the nail in the coffin.
In another thread, or maybe this one, there was some speculation about Austin and his girlfriend and accusations. Whether or not those were true would make me understand Austin's desire to leave, but previous coaches might have convinced him to stay.
RE: If Josh is Right? - stratecashomie - 04-07-2016 10:57 AM
(04-07-2016 02:33 AM)Trapper John Wrote: I guess part of my question is based in the fact that the Grizzlies have players that have been here for years and years. If the new norm for college is that nobody is really here more than a couple of years, then how do you really grow interest in individual players? How do you have a rooting interest for anything more than the name on the front of the jersey?
in fairness the grizzlies have had 28 different guys play for them this year
RE: If Josh is Right? - Briskbas - 04-07-2016 11:29 AM
(04-07-2016 10:08 AM)Tiger46 Wrote:(04-07-2016 09:34 AM)rolexjames Wrote:(04-07-2016 08:11 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:(04-07-2016 08:03 AM)Tygrys Wrote:(04-07-2016 01:22 AM)stratecashomie Wrote: i wouldnt care as long as we were winning - the culture around the program and the best guys leaving are the reason why the mass transferring is a problem.
This is exactly it... Win and nobody cares about transfers, be mediocre and then lose your best players to transfer and it becomes a major issue.
Spot on
Agreed. However, I have to add that it's odd to see players leave when they seem to be in line for a great opportunity. Pookie Powell, Damien Wilson, even Nick King you almost understand, they were buried deep in the bench. But Avery Woodson, and Austin Nichols are baffling. They were in position to be the focal point of the offense.
It reminds me of when Deuce Ford transferred. He said it was because he felt froze out or not getting the ball enough. They ran more plays for Deuce than David Vaughn and Cedric Henderson.
Austin was the nail in the coffin.
In another thread, or maybe this one, there was some speculation about Austin and his girlfriend and accusations. Whether or not those were true would make me understand Austin's desire to leave, but previous coaches might have convinced him to stay.
You can say that people have said that Shaq and Austin's girl allegedly did Austin dirty.
Really. It's OK. You don't have to talk around it like it's a state secret.
RE: If Josh is Right? - dwash - 04-07-2016 11:33 AM
(04-07-2016 02:25 AM)John44932 Wrote: Josh isn't right about anything.
He did one thing "right" in 2013 thats for damn sure.
RE: If Josh is Right? - Trapper John - 04-07-2016 11:39 AM
(04-07-2016 10:57 AM)stratecashomie Wrote:(04-07-2016 02:33 AM)Trapper John Wrote: I guess part of my question is based in the fact that the Grizzlies have players that have been here for years and years. If the new norm for college is that nobody is really here more than a couple of years, then how do you really grow interest in individual players? How do you have a rooting interest for anything more than the name on the front of the jersey?
in fairness the grizzlies have had 28 different guys play for them this year
Of course, but ZBo and Tony together probably have close to as many years in a Memphis jersey as the entire Tigers roster combined.
And yes, the Tigers have not had a bunch of one and done's, but the dominating concept or perception that the one and done rule has created has definitely hurt us. The idea that the best players should only stay one year (Adonis, Will), that if they stay longer than one year then they were a failure or were mishandled, and the idea that if they aren't projected to be drafted after year two then they should transfer to another program - this line of thinking has hurt us as a program. It has led to more turnover, and it has helped create some of the inner turmoil within the program.
RE: If Josh is Right? - snowtiger - 04-07-2016 12:56 PM
(04-07-2016 02:25 AM)John44932 Wrote: Josh isn't right about anything.
Guys like that are perfect for stocks and bonds...where Reverse Intuition can be successfully monetized.
RE: If Josh is Right? - aardWolf - 04-07-2016 02:02 PM
(04-07-2016 01:10 AM)Trapper John Wrote: What if Coach Pastner is right...
I'm sorry... did you write anything after that?
RE: If Josh is Right? - ncrdbl1 - 04-07-2016 02:48 PM
(04-07-2016 01:10 AM)Trapper John Wrote: What if Coach Pastner is right, and the new norm is multiple players transferring from every team each year? If this is the new norm, does it change your perspective on college basketball? I still prefer the college game experience over the NBA, but the one-and-done's and the sustained success of the Grizzlies have driven me closer to the NBA. If a new coach took over, and we saw the same number of transfers in and out each year, how many fans would simply be done with college basketball? I know Memphis has had a high number of transfers, but we're not the only ones. And maybe losing a player like Dedric to the draft is one thing, but losing a player like Avery to transfer when Josh stuck with him in spite of criticism is something altogether different.
Annual transfer rate for the past few years has been around 700 per year.
Interesting story
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball-news/4642914-graduate-transfers-college-basketball-sterling-gibbs-ncaa
Using the 2014 transfer list compiled by ESPN’s Jeff Goodman, we found 11 examples of players who transferred into the top six conferences and played immediately as graduates.
Here's what happened:
Only two of the 11 players averaged double-figure scoring.
Only one of the 11 saw his minutes increase at his new school.
Only one saw his scoring average increase.
Examining each player’s average minutes, scoring and rebounding, there were only five statistical increases out of a potential 33.
Only five appeared in the NCAA Tournament; only one advanced to the round of 32.
In the Sweet 16, the only team that featured a graduate transfer was Gonzaga, which started former USC Trojan Byron Wesley at small forward. Like most of the others, Wesley saw his statistics decline in every category: minutes (34.6 to 26.7), scoring (17.8 to 10.6) and rebounds (6.4 to 4.7). But he was a valuable player on a Gonzaga team that won both West Coast Conference championships, earned a No. 2 seed and was in a tight game with eventual national champion Duke in the NCAA Tournament South Region final.