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+------- Thread: Blowing the whole thing up ... (/thread-762914.html)
Blowing the whole thing up ... - HometownTiger - 12-14-2015 01:54 PM
Not an endorsement, just passing this along:
http://www.grizzlybearblues.com/2015/12/14/10029478/tearing-down-the-grizzlies
I do agree with the first point made:
Quote:You don't "blow it up" by just trading role players. That would be sort of like a diet that calls for you to switch from Budweiser to Bud Light. We're breaking the glass. We're taking the red pill. We're going all the way. Every player on a non-rookie contracts must go. Every. Single. One.
If we blow it up, we gotta BLOW IT UP. That includes Wallace and maybe Coach Joerger IF he isn't willing/able to develop young talent and suck for a few years...
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - TigerNK - 12-14-2015 02:34 PM
I'm firmly in the "let's make a move" camp but I think this type of rebuild is unnecessary. Assuming Jordan Adams is close to coming back like we hear, try to move Tony with some combination of the expiring contracts (Conley, Jeff Green, Lee, Vince). Conley has the most value and he and Tony would be attractive to a young team making a playoff run.
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - bsp34 - 12-14-2015 02:41 PM
Lawd that took some research
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - mairving - 12-14-2015 02:56 PM
I doubt if anyone is going to totally blow up a team that is still firmly entrenched in the playoff race.
In past years we would have scoring droughts in nearly every game. But we also played elite level defense and could manage those droughts. This year we no longer play elite level defense so the only options to fix this are
1. ) Return to playing great defense - I am honestly not sure if this is possible.
2. ) Open up the offense more. We can't really open up the offense without efficient and consistent outside shooting. When you have Conley, Tony, J. Green, Zbo and Gasol in the game defense is bad and there is no spacing on offense. It's much better with Barnes and Lee in for Green and Allen. So if we are able to trade TA for any shooter of value then I would do it.
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - TigerNK - 12-14-2015 03:03 PM
Nobody is giving up a shooter for TA. The only way you move him is in a package. If you can get a decent backup PG, then it makes sense to move Conley with TA. It opens up the rotation for Jordan Adams and we are statistically better with Chalmers on the floor.
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - mairving - 12-14-2015 03:09 PM
(12-14-2015 03:03 PM)TigerNK Wrote: Nobody is giving up a shooter for TA. The only way you move him is in a package. If you can get a decent backup PG, then it makes sense to move Conley with TA. It opens up the rotation for Jordan Adams and we are statistically better with Chalmers on the floor.
Gasol and Conley are the only two players I wouldn't consider trading. As far as Chalmers being statistically better he has a better PER but not by much. I think that is more because Chalmers had a big bump when he first came and has leveled off. I also think it has to do with Conley playing so much with a lineup where he's the only outside threat.
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - HometownTiger - 12-14-2015 03:22 PM
(12-14-2015 03:09 PM)mairving Wrote:(12-14-2015 03:03 PM)TigerNK Wrote: Nobody is giving up a shooter for TA. The only way you move him is in a package. If you can get a decent backup PG, then it makes sense to move Conley with TA. It opens up the rotation for Jordan Adams and we are statistically better with Chalmers on the floor.
Gasol and Conley are the only two players I wouldn't consider trading.
Obviously...but they also happen to be the only 2 players that would be worth anything substantial to help with a re-build (picks or promising young players)
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - TigerNK - 12-14-2015 03:54 PM
(12-14-2015 03:09 PM)mairving Wrote: Gasol and Conley are the only two players I wouldn't consider trading. As far as Chalmers being statistically better he has a better PER but not by much. I think that is more because Chalmers had a big bump when he first came and has leveled off. I also think it has to do with Conley playing so much with a lineup where he's the only outside threat.
Unfortunately trades have to work for both parties. Tony isn't an expiring contract, so teams can't dump salary and not have to worry about him next season. He's almost 34 and having a terrible season. Why would someone give up a shooter for him? We will have to package somebody (with value) for a team to take him.
Rio is going to be a starting PG somewhere next season, why can't it be here for half of what Conley is going to demand? There's an extra $10 million for an outside shooter this summer. He is the aggressive PG this team needs if we are going to play small ball, which appears to be the case.
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - Brother Bluto - 12-14-2015 04:01 PM
Trade Conley for a shooter and let Chalmers run the point. With Gasol's massive contract, Mike is your only tradeable commodity.
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - ksigtigerdood - 12-14-2015 04:25 PM
While I feel that this team could still turn it around, I'm leaning on the side of starting the rebuild process. Realistically, this team is not a championship caliber team anymore. We can continue to trade of draft picks to get the 7th or 8th spot in the playoffs. But, we'll eventually end up in a place worse than where we will be if we decide to start the rebuild now. But, it is difficult to blow up a team when you're in contention for a playoff spot.
This could get REEEAAAAAL ugly... like 2006 Grizz ugly. We've traded away a lot of our upcoming draft picks, which will set us back further.
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - Dynamos - 12-14-2015 04:32 PM
(12-14-2015 03:09 PM)mairving Wrote:(12-14-2015 03:03 PM)TigerNK Wrote: Nobody is giving up a shooter for TA. The only way you move him is in a package. If you can get a decent backup PG, then it makes sense to move Conley with TA. It opens up the rotation for Jordan Adams and we are statistically better with Chalmers on the floor.
Gasol and Conley are the only two players I wouldn't consider trading. As far as Chalmers being statistically better he has a better PER but not by much. I think that is more because Chalmers had a big bump when he first came and has leveled off. I also think it has to do with Conley playing so much with a lineup where he's the only outside threat.
Why not?
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - TigerNK - 12-14-2015 04:43 PM
(12-14-2015 04:25 PM)ksigtigerdood Wrote: This could get REEEAAAAAL ugly... like 2006 Grizz ugly. We've traded away a lot of our upcoming draft picks, which will set us back further.
The good news is that Summer 2016 just happens to be the best time in history to rebuild/retool an NBA team.
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - Tiger1983 - 12-14-2015 06:48 PM
It is a bit early IMO to blow the whole team up. A few bad games should not mean the season is over.
Z-Bo, and Allen (in particular) are icons in the City of Memphis. Griz fans, I think, do not want to see them go. Heck, Allen is the voice of the Memphis airport.
Regardless, I have full confidence in Memphis ownership and management to make the right decisions.
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - aTxTIGER - 12-14-2015 06:59 PM
Conley has very little value right now bc he is a free agent at the end of the year. Unless his new team can convince him to sign before he tests the open market in the summer, his trade value is diminished.
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - rws71 - 12-14-2015 07:00 PM
The management is the first thing that should go! I'm still iffy on the coaching.
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - aTxTIGER - 12-14-2015 07:02 PM
Still way too early to blow it up. Trade deadline at the earliest but probably more likely to be pre draft into the post season.
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - aTxTIGER - 12-14-2015 07:12 PM
Also, blowing it up right now will almost certainly mean you lose your pick this year. It's only protected in the Top 5 and picks 15-30.
If you want to blow it up, you fight like hell to make the playoffs this season to keep the pick. Blow it up in the summer and then try to be bad enough to keep your pick in 2017(Top 5 protected).
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - spankadelphia - 12-14-2015 07:21 PM
We're going to have to give up the pick eventually. Might as well bite the bullet and do it this year so we don't end up losing a top 5 pick in 2019 or something.
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - aTxTIGER - 12-14-2015 07:24 PM
(12-14-2015 07:21 PM)spankadelphia Wrote: We're going to have to give up the pick eventually. Might as well bite the bullet and do it this year so we don't end up losing a top 5 pick in 2019 or something.
Yup. But if you are going to blow it up over the next two years, you would prefer to have your pick the next 2 years and hope to be in a better place in 2018 where you aren't giving up a lottery pick.
RE: Blowing the whole thing up ... - spankadelphia - 12-14-2015 07:36 PM
I wouldn't bank on the Grizzlies being competitive enough to stay out of the lottery in 2018 or 2019. Retooling the roster has been an option the last few years, but the FO decided to sit pat. Now we are staring at a 3-4 year rebuild with 2 future first round draft picks hanging in the wind. It's not going to be quick or painless, the FO has seen to that.