(04-28-2015 11:27 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  When he says he wants to protect the middle class and build up our nation to what it was before

(04-28-2015 11:30 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-28-2015 11:27 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  When he says he wants to protect the middle class and build up our nation to what it was before

We were never a socialist nation before therefore saying he wants to "build up our nation to what it was before"

(04-28-2015 11:37 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  Hillary is actually to the Left of Sanders.

(04-28-2015 11:37 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  Hillary is actually to the Left of Sanders.

(04-28-2015 11:37 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  

(04-28-2015 11:30 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-28-2015 11:27 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  When he says he wants to protect the middle class and build up our nation to what it was before

We were never a socialist nation before therefore saying he wants to "build up our nation to what it was before"

What we were before... was a country with an actual middle class... not just poor and rich. I think pretty much everyone around the world can agree that things work a lot better when your income inequality isn't sky-high.

(04-28-2015 11:32 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  This is perfect. He will only make Hillary look more moderated. Brilliant.

(04-28-2015 11:37 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  

(04-28-2015 11:30 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-28-2015 11:27 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  When he says he wants to protect the middle class and build up our nation to what it was before

We were never a socialist nation before therefore saying he wants to "build up our nation to what it was before"

What we were before... was a country with an actual middle class... not just poor and rich. I think pretty much everyone around the world can agree that things work a lot better when your income inequality isn't sky-high.

(04-28-2015 11:37 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  

(04-28-2015 11:30 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-28-2015 11:27 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  When he says he wants to protect the middle class and build up our nation to what it was before

We were never a socialist nation before therefore saying he wants to "build up our nation to what it was before"

What we were before... was a country with an actual middle class... not just poor and rich. I think pretty much everyone around the world can agree that things work a lot better when your income inequality isn't sky-high.

(04-28-2015 11:27 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  I have already known for a long time who I'm voting for in the Democratic primary (Sanders) so I hope he beats Clinton at least in my state. For all the talk that's out there about people 'really caring' about the people, I think Sanders is one of the very few on both sides of the debate (regardless of your political orientation) who can actually say that and represent it. When he says he wants to protect the middle class and build up our nation to what it was before, he's not doing it for giggles while getting money from big-money banks or lobbyist support... Which is something a lot of people can't say. Thoughts?

(04-29-2015 06:55 AM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(04-28-2015 11:37 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  

(04-28-2015 11:30 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(04-28-2015 11:27 PM)Ole Blue Wrote:  When he says he wants to protect the middle class and build up our nation to what it was before

We were never a socialist nation before therefore saying he wants to "build up our nation to what it was before"

What we were before... was a country with an actual middle class... not just poor and rich. I think pretty much everyone around the world can agree that things work a lot better when your income inequality isn't sky-high.

Number one, I'm not sure everyone agrees with that.

Number two, our inequality is not sky high. It's higher than other developed countries, but lower than many other countries. Which begs the obvious question, does income equality drive economic growth (as you apparently believe), or does growth drive income equality (which is equally likely off the facts)?

Number three, why are we the outlier among developed nations? More importantly, if we accept your premise that it needs changing, what does that suggest about how do we change it? Tax the rich? Interestingly, we have the most progressive tax rate structure in the developed world. Every one of those countries with more equality in wealth and income taxes the "rich," and particularly corporations, less than we do. And most offer elimination or considerable reduction in the double taxation of corporate dividends. Yes, I know, the "rich" pay much less than the statutory rates here. But they do it by legally moving their income to places where it is taxed less--like those other countries with lower to tax rates for corporations and individuals, in addition to sheltered investments here. The net result is a loss of middle class jobs, which follow investment. Not so much jobs lost to the left's favorite whipping boy--China. The jobs that go there are not middle class jobs here. What hurts the middle class is not the loss of jobs making cheap consumer goods--comparative advantage argues that those jobs should go to China for the betterment of all--but rather the factories making expensive producer goods that are built overseas from the start and never come here. Those are what you build a middle class with, and the middle class is growing in the places where those jobs are going.

There are two ways to reduce income (and wealth) inequality--make the rich poorer or make the poor richer. Sanders (and apparently you) would make the rich poorer. The problem is that the rich don't want to get poorer. They will respond by moving investment and income to countries that care more about making the poor richer. In the process they create middle class jobs in those countries, and that makes the poor richer in those countries.

Bottom line, the Sanders approach makes income inequality worse, not better. By the way, there is a classic example. Argentina was the seventh most prosperous economy in the world 100 years ago and seemed poised to grow even richer. The government launched massive wealth redistribution, culminating in the Peronistas. It's nowhere near number seven now, and income inequality is worse, not better.

(04-28-2015 11:37 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  Hillary is actually to the Left of Sanders.

(04-29-2015 06:48 AM)Paul M Wrote:  Yeah, lets just speed up our decline to warp speed.