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Two Thoughts on Big East Status - xusandy - 03-22-2015 10:11 AM
(1) Though we didn't make the statement yesterday that us BE fans would have liked, and although only one BE team is still alive in the Sweet 16 (GO X!), this has been one heck of an exciting season for the league, and I do think we now have more national respect than we had last November.
(2) Big E recruiting results should get better and better as the years roll by, because lots of good kids will want to play their college ball at a school (and in an entire league) with better academics, and where basketball is king instead of football, and where the coach has an excellent reputation. Jay Wright, John Thompson III, Chris Mack, Greg McDermott, and Ed Cooley are all class guys with histories of fielding competitive teams year after year, and track records of treating their players honestly but compassionately. Butler and Marquette also look to have made excellent coaching hires this past year. I don't mean to slight Steve Lavin, Kevin Willard, or Oliver Purnell here -- they all seem like stand-up guys to me -- but they just haven't had the success of the others. BTW, I sure would like to see DePaul get out of caretaker mode with their program -- how about they hire Ron Hunter right now, while he's still on his stool?
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - mlb - 03-22-2015 01:14 PM
Steve Lavin had huge success in the tourney at UCLA. As much or more than everyone you mentioned.
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - stever20 - 03-22-2015 01:52 PM
Lavin to me needs to go. That program is 1 pratfall after the other. They had a lot of talent the last few years- but 41-25 record.
I think the national respect is close to where we were in November. The thing is, the last thing folks will see of the Big East is unless X goes on and wins again these last 2 days where everyone struggled.
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - johnbragg - 03-22-2015 01:56 PM
(03-22-2015 01:52 PM)stever20 Wrote: Lavin to me needs to go. That program is 1 pratfall after the other. They had a lot of talent the last few years- but 41-25 record.
I think the national respect is close to where we were in November. The thing is, the last thing folks will see of the Big East is unless X goes on and wins again these last 2 days where everyone struggled.
On the one hand, they'll remember Villanova whiffing. But they'll also remember the number 6, as in 6 bids. And we'll see what X can do against Arizona.
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - stever20 - 03-22-2015 02:29 PM
(03-22-2015 01:56 PM)johnbragg Wrote:(03-22-2015 01:52 PM)stever20 Wrote: Lavin to me needs to go. That program is 1 pratfall after the other. They had a lot of talent the last few years- but 41-25 record.
I think the national respect is close to where we were in November. The thing is, the last thing folks will see of the Big East is unless X goes on and wins again these last 2 days where everyone struggled.
On the one hand, they'll remember Villanova whiffing. But they'll also remember the number 6, as in 6 bids. And we'll see what X can do against Arizona.
The thing is, they absolutely remember Villanova whiffing I think more than the 6 bids.
And, I think we really need Xavier to show well against Arizona- otherwise folks will just say that X benefitted because Georgia St upset Iowa St. Don't have to win, but be competitive.
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - stever20 - 03-22-2015 02:52 PM
The thing that gets to me is the logic that folks have that don't focus on last night, it's a small sample size, it doesn't really hurt.
I think by saying that ignores how different things would have been had we gone like 3-1 yesterday with Nova winning and then either Georgetown or Butler.... The perception that the Big East would have had would have been that folks wouldn't be able to ignore us any longer. That would have been huge. By losing the way we did, we go back into the backgrounds.
So by folks saying that in essence last night doesn't hurt us, that ignores what the benefits of winning would have been.
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - mlb - 03-22-2015 03:33 PM
Xavier's fan base should be fired up playing against Miller's Wildcats. That will be the back story all week leading up to it.
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - stever20 - 03-22-2015 03:50 PM
yeah for sure on Xavier's end. I think Arizona's fans would already be looking forward to Wisconsin quite frankly....
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - gosports1 - 03-22-2015 04:44 PM
its a shame the results are what they are, but play those games agan and the results could have been different. Any given day upsets happen
The BE made its statement durng the regular season. A year or 2 from now will most people remember when a team was elimnated from the tourney? They are more likely to remember that school x has made the post season y consectitve years or that z has y 20+ winning seasons
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - stever20 - 03-22-2015 04:52 PM
(03-22-2015 04:44 PM)gosports1 Wrote: its a shame the results are what they are, but play those games agan and the results could have been different. Any given day upsets happen
The BE made its statement durng the regular season. A year or 2 from now will most people remember when a team was elimnated from the tourney? They are more likely to remember that school x has made the post season y consectitve years or that z has y 20+ winning seasons
I would absolutely say folks do remember when teams are eliminated from the tourney as a conference, all I would have to say is see the MWC.
Where this hurts especially to me is voters in the polls won't give the Big East the respect that it seemed like we deserved next season. That hurts because it absolutely ties into helping the Fox issue. Better rankings=better ratings for the games.
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - gosports1 - 03-22-2015 04:54 PM
(03-22-2015 04:52 PM)stever20 Wrote:(03-22-2015 04:44 PM)gosports1 Wrote: its a shame the results are what they are, but play those games agan and the results could have been different. Any given day upsets happen
The BE made its statement durng the regular season. A year or 2 from now will most people remember when a team was elimnated from the tourney? They are more likely to remember that school x has made the post season y consectitve years or that z has y 20+ winning seasons
I would absolutely say folks do remember when teams are eliminated from the tourney as a conference, all I would have to say is see the MWC.
Where this hurts especially to me is voters in the polls won't give the Big East the respect that it seemed like we deserved next season. That hurts because it absolutely ties into helping the Fox issue. Better rankings=better ratings for the games.
so the B12 should be in the same boat? t doesnt seem to have hurt the B10 after ther poor showing in years gone by
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - stever20 - 03-22-2015 05:00 PM
(03-22-2015 04:54 PM)gosports1 Wrote:(03-22-2015 04:52 PM)stever20 Wrote:(03-22-2015 04:44 PM)gosports1 Wrote: its a shame the results are what they are, but play those games agan and the results could have been different. Any given day upsets happen
The BE made its statement durng the regular season. A year or 2 from now will most people remember when a team was elimnated from the tourney? They are more likely to remember that school x has made the post season y consectitve years or that z has y 20+ winning seasons
I would absolutely say folks do remember when teams are eliminated from the tourney as a conference, all I would have to say is see the MWC.
Where this hurts especially to me is voters in the polls won't give the Big East the respect that it seemed like we deserved next season. That hurts because it absolutely ties into helping the Fox issue. Better rankings=better ratings for the games.
so the B12 should be in the same boat? t doesnt seem to have hurt the B10 after ther poor showing in years gone by
We have to see how Kansas, Oklahoma, and West Virginia do today before we can indict the Big 12. And yes, if they go 1-2 today and have only 1 sweet 16 team, they would absolutely get dinged in the media more than they have on Thursday...
Big Ten gets teams to the final 4 regularly. They haven't won- but at least they get to the F4. The few years they haven't, they've had at least 2 sweet 16 teams, if not more.
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - stever20 - 03-22-2015 05:04 PM
my point is really simple. If we're 3-1 yesterday, what is the perception of the Big East? I would say that it's light years different than it is with us going 1-3. Is it right? Probably not. But, it's very realistic. To say yesterday was anything but a lost chance is a joke.
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - stever20 - 03-22-2015 05:07 PM
(03-22-2015 01:56 PM)johnbragg Wrote:(03-22-2015 01:52 PM)stever20 Wrote: Lavin to me needs to go. That program is 1 pratfall after the other. They had a lot of talent the last few years- but 41-25 record.
I think the national respect is close to where we were in November. The thing is, the last thing folks will see of the Big East is unless X goes on and wins again these last 2 days where everyone struggled.
On the one hand, they'll remember Villanova whiffing. But they'll also remember the number 6, as in 6 bids. And we'll see what X can do against Arizona.
btw- great to have you back on here. Let's bring this board back!!!!
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - MUAvalanche - 03-23-2015 10:21 AM
(03-22-2015 05:04 PM)stever20 Wrote: my point is really simple. If we're 3-1 yesterday, what is the perception of the Big East? I would say that it's light years different than it is with us going 1-3. Is it right? Probably not. But, it's very realistic. To say yesterday was anything but a lost chance is a joke.
It was a lost opportunity, but it was a step forward. At 11 credits, pending where X ends up, the BE is at 1.1 credits per school. That is 3rd behind the ACC and Big XII at this point. The Pac and BIG could each potentially pass us depending on what happens. For a point of reference, since taking Miami and VA Tech and going through last season's tournament, the ACC only earned 1.1 credits or more per school twice, and never earned more than 1.1667 credits per school. Personally, I like the step forward. I wish it was more, but it is year 2 of a long-term arrangement.
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - stever20 - 03-23-2015 10:36 AM
(03-23-2015 10:21 AM)MUAvalanche Wrote:(03-22-2015 05:04 PM)stever20 Wrote: my point is really simple. If we're 3-1 yesterday, what is the perception of the Big East? I would say that it's light years different than it is with us going 1-3. Is it right? Probably not. But, it's very realistic. To say yesterday was anything but a lost chance is a joke.
It was a lost opportunity, but it was a step forward. At 11 credits, pending where X ends up, the BE is at 1.1 credits per school. That is 3rd behind the ACC and Big XII at this point. The Pac and BIG could each potentially pass us depending on what happens. For a point of reference, since taking Miami and VA Tech and going through last season's tournament, the ACC only earned 1.1 credits or more per school twice, and never earned more than 1.1667 credits per school. Personally, I like the step forward. I wish it was more, but it is year 2 of a long-term arrangement.
I get that, but we were by seed supposed to be looking at I think 16 credits. And the thing is, a Nova run to the final 4 would have been absolutely a game changer for the conference. We need our champion to make the 2nd weekend.
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - MUAvalanche - 03-23-2015 02:13 PM
(03-23-2015 10:36 AM)stever20 Wrote: I get that, but we were by seed supposed to be looking at I think 16 credits. And the thing is, a Nova run to the final 4 would have been absolutely a game changer for the conference. We need our champion to make the 2nd weekend.
We don't disagree on the impact of the Villanova loss. It was a hit. Upsets happen in the tournament all of the time, so conferences frequently get less units than they were seeded. At the same time, the direction is pointing up and the commitment to basketball is high. Creighton and Marquette did not make the tournament, but their commitment to hoops is solid and I expect both to be back to competitive sooner rather than later. Butler bounced back from a down year nicely. Xavier continues to be a solid addition. The three east coast mainstays (VU, GU, SJU) were all in the tournament. No play-in games, and 5 of the 6 were 6 seed or higher. Good stuff.
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - stever20 - 03-23-2015 02:18 PM
I definitely think we're in a better place now than when we started this season. If nothing else, we established that we are the top non P5 conference(something that clearly was at question last year). Just to me Saturday was a lost chance to start making a dent vs the P5 conferences.
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - quo vadis - 03-24-2015 08:14 AM
(03-22-2015 10:11 AM)xusandy Wrote: (1) Though we didn't make the statement yesterday that us BE fans would have liked, and although only one BE team is still alive in the Sweet 16 (GO X!), this has been one heck of an exciting season for the league, and I do think we now have more national respect than we had last November.
Let's not sugar-coat this: While going 4-2 in the R64 was a nice achievement, going 1-3 in R32 was not, and it is a BIG disappointment to place just one team in the SW16. Sucked that Georgetown and Butler couldn't pull their close games out, and #1 seed Villanova losing round 2 was an abject disaster.
My worry: The Big East has been given MUCHO respect by the tournament committee. We have been treated like a "Power" conference, unlike other non-P5 like the A10, MWC, and AAC. We have gotten lots of bids, and favorable seeding (e.g., my Georgetown was really about a 6 seed, but we got a 4 seed). But two straight poor performances might cause the committee to view us a "mid-major" rather than "major". We really need to do better in the big dance.
RE: Two Thoughts on Big East Status - stever20 - 03-24-2015 08:30 AM
(03-24-2015 08:14 AM)quo vadis Wrote:(03-22-2015 10:11 AM)xusandy Wrote: (1) Though we didn't make the statement yesterday that us BE fans would have liked, and although only one BE team is still alive in the Sweet 16 (GO X!), this has been one heck of an exciting season for the league, and I do think we now have more national respect than we had last November.
Let's not sugar-coat this: While going 4-2 in the R64 was a nice achievement, going 1-3 in R32 was not, and it is a BIG disappointment to place just one team in the SW16. Sucked that Georgetown and Butler couldn't pull their close games out, and #1 seed Villanova losing round 2 was an abject disaster.
My worry: The Big East has been given MUCHO respect by the tournament committee. We have been treated like a "Power" conference, unlike other non-P5 like the A10, MWC, and AAC. We have gotten lots of bids, and favorable seeding (e.g., my Georgetown was really about a 6 seed, but we got a 4 seed). But two straight poor performances might cause the committee to view us a "mid-major" rather than "major". We really need to do better in the big dance.
We were treated like a power conference because we had 5 teams with a top 25 RPI this year. That's going to get you mucho respect from the committee.