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+---- Thread: Walk it back, walk it back ..... (/thread-722924.html)
Walk it back, walk it back ..... - NittanyLion - 01-12-2015 08:14 PM
Who knows what the NCAA's motivation is here. It could be a desire to squash the current lawsuits, it could be that Dr. Emmert has had a change of heart and thinks the victories should NOT be vacated, it could be some additional recognition for PSU's administration in the post-Spanier era.
But it does look like the NCAA is ready to stop with their re-writing of history (like him or not, Joe Paterno was the Head Coach for 409 different games in which his team outscored the opposition).
http://www.si.com/college-football/2015/01/12/penn-state-joe-paterno-vacated-wins-ncaa-talks
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - HarmonOliphantOberlanderDevine - 01-12-2015 08:36 PM
Fine by me. The games were played without the help of Sandusky.
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - goofus - 01-12-2015 09:56 PM
So Penn State was not involved in a cover-up of a know convicted child molester?
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - NittanyLion - 01-12-2015 10:43 PM
(01-12-2015 09:56 PM)goofus Wrote: So Penn State was not involved in a cover-up of a know convicted child molester?
Well, it's been 1164 days now since this story broke.
It's been 1164 days since Spanier/Curley/Schultz were originally charged with perjury and failure to report.
In those 1164 days, we have had ZERO Penn State administrators found criminally guilty of anything. (Sandusky is not an administrator, and was never a reason for the original NCAA sanctions).
Again: 1164 days, and no administrators have been found criminally guilty of a single thing.
Given that, perhaps your original premise --- that Penn State "was involved in a cover-up of a known convicted child molester" --- isn't correct?
A lot of people don't want to face that question --- don't want to face the possibility that the current narrative isn't exactly correct --- but the above IS a legitimate question.
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - uccheese - 01-13-2015 10:43 AM
Tough spot. On one hand, pretty much every person in the US knows the legal system is a joke. On the other hand, you are punishing them severely for something the courts haven't been able to prove in any way.
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - mac6115cd - 01-13-2015 10:48 AM
Those involved in the crime and cover up did not play the games - the players did. The guilty are either in prison, fired or dead. The NCAA overstepped their authority and botched the entire process.
I don't see any benefit in punishing the players - after all, they were their victories.
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - Captain Bearcat - 01-13-2015 10:48 AM
(01-13-2015 10:43 AM)uccheese Wrote: Tough spot. On one hand, pretty much every person in the US knows the legal system is a joke. On the other hand, you are punishing them severely for something the courts haven't been able to prove in any way.
I disagree. I think it's more fair than any other system that has ever been developed. It's definitely more fair than a lynch mob.
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - Captain Bearcat - 01-13-2015 10:49 AM
(01-12-2015 10:43 PM)NittanyLion Wrote:(01-12-2015 09:56 PM)goofus Wrote: So Penn State was not involved in a cover-up of a know convicted child molester?
Well, it's been 1164 days now since this story broke.
It's been 1164 days since Spanier/Curley/Schultz were originally charged with perjury and failure to report.
In those 1164 days, we have had ZERO Penn State administrators found criminally guilty of anything. (Sandusky is not an administrator, and was never a reason for the original NCAA sanctions).
Again: 1164 days, and no administrators have been found criminally guilty of a single thing.
Given that, perhaps your original premise --- that Penn State "was involved in a cover-up of a known convicted child molester" --- isn't correct?
A lot of people don't want to face that question --- don't want to face the possibility that the current narrative isn't exactly correct --- but the above IS a legitimate question.
Are any charges still pending? (serious question, the legal system can take a long time when people have deep pockets)
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - Hokie4Skins - 01-13-2015 10:51 AM
The people to blame for "punishing the players" are the people who risked the school's ability to field a team, offer scholarships, compete in the postseason, etc. in the first place. The NCAA didn't do that.
Always have to shake my head at the suggestion that the inevitable results of lack of institutional control are somehow the fault of anybody other than the institution itself.
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - ken d - 01-13-2015 12:11 PM
I have never understood the whole logic behind vacating wins as a punishment, especially when the alleged offense had nothing to do with gaining an unfair advantage on the field.
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - Danger in Carolina - 01-13-2015 01:22 PM
Bottom line Sandusky is in Jail.
Joe Pa was a great coach that made some poor off-the-field decisions. I don't have a problem with reversing the vacation of wins, I would imagine this is inevitable.
No institution or person is beyond redemption if they are truly repentant of their crimes. And to be clear the crimes committed were heinous. Penn State has paid a heavy price for all of this and its time to move on while making sure that this doesn't happen again. Institutionally they have made major changes and put safeguards in place to prevent similar events from every occurring again.
Generally it seems as a society we are getting better at protecting our children from child molesters. Not perfect, but getting better. I think if anything, the Penn State scandal helped elevate a topic which is tough for most people to deal with.
Also, I was happy to see the bowl ban removed and current players go to a bowl.
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - OrangeCrush22 - 01-13-2015 01:50 PM
In hindsight; the NCAA should have punished State Pen strictly monetarily. This would have harmed the people who allowed for 52+ counts (Sandusky only charged from '94 - '09, he started before then) of molestation but not harmed the players who did nothing wrong.
Instead of a postseason ban they could have confistacted the bowl payouts for the foreseeable future. Then donate that money to abuse charities.
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - NittanyLion - 01-13-2015 02:41 PM
(01-13-2015 01:50 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote: Instead of a postseason ban they could have confistacted the bowl payouts for the foreseeable future. Then donate that money to abuse charities.
FWIW, this IS occurring.
PSU gets no bowl payouts from the B1G for the 2012-2015 seasons, with that $$$ going to various child abuse charities in the B1G region.
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - Sundanceuiuc - 01-13-2015 02:50 PM
I find it hard to get worked up about PSU getting a bunch of wins back after a serious breach of human rights by members of the program when Memphis lost a Final Four over a player that was initially cleared and only later declared ineligible.
I understand that the Memphis violation would be an actual NCAA rule while the PSU situation actually isn't a NCAA violation... just a person in a position of power systematically sexually exploiting children with a school wide blind eye.
It's probably the right ruling to give them the wins back, but I'll be damned if any PSU fans will get any sympathy from me. Memphis' Final Four may have missed a SAT test, but it didn't involve the systematic exploitation of fragile youth at least...
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - Sundanceuiuc - 01-13-2015 02:52 PM
(01-13-2015 01:22 PM)Danger in Carolina Wrote: I think if anything, the Penn State scandal helped elevate a topic which is tough for most people to deal with.
Also, I was happy to see the bowl ban removed and current players go to a bowl.
Despite my pissy post above, a tone I'll admit is not forthcoming, I agree with this. PSU should have the ability to compete in bowls and I am also glad the future is moving forward clean. It's good for the region and it is great that they have (assumedly) cleaned house.
Don't mistake sour grapes above for anything besides my best wishes for the PSU program going forward.
I just think complaining about records is callous in the face of the tragedies is all...
RE: Walk it back, walk it back ..... - 58-56 - 01-13-2015 03:06 PM
Penn State should be placed under the University of Alabama System Board of Trustees.