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Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - memphissince86 - 01-09-2015 03:04 PM
There has to be some kind of agreement I think between player and coach before the player commits.
Something as in: the player agrees to follow the coach's rules, direction, etc. and in return the coach will make me a better person and player.
Well what we have here is a breakdown in that agreement.
While there may be some suspensions(too many IMO), I think we can all agree that for the most part the players follow the rules.
Helping make someone a better person is I guess up for interpretation for the player mostly and maybe the coach.
But you know if you're getting better as a player.
IMO, the players are saying, "okay I'm doing what you ask of me, but I'm not getting better and this team ain't getting better"
Pastner needs to hold up his end of the bargain. And it doesn't seem like he can.
Time to go.
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - paulnatlanta - 01-09-2015 08:32 PM
(01-09-2015 03:04 PM)memphissince86 Wrote: There has to be some kind of agreement I think between player and coach before the player commits.
Something as in: the player agrees to follow the coach's rules, direction, etc. and in return the coach will make me a better person and player.
Well what we have here is a breakdown in that agreement.
While there may be some suspensions(too many IMO), I think we can all agree that for the most part the players follow the rules.
Helping make someone a better person is I guess up for interpretation for the player mostly and maybe the coach.
But you know if you're getting better as a player.
IMO, the players are saying, "okay I'm doing what you ask of me, but I'm not getting better and this team ain't getting better"
Pastner needs to hold up his end of the bargain. And it doesn't seem like he can.
Time to go.
I agree mostly. Josh too often forgets that his primary job is to win basketball games not parent 18 year old basketball players. Suspending guys for minor rules violations only serves to piss people off and is not in the best interest of the team.
There are no sportsmanship awards or participation ribbons here. You tell trashon "don't do that again" and move on.
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - pkptigers07 - 01-10-2015 12:54 AM
Most of the suspensions have been for showing up late to practice and missing meetings. He should be applauded for holding them accountable
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - Stammers - 01-10-2015 12:58 AM
(01-10-2015 12:54 AM)pkptigers07 Wrote: Most of the suspensions have been for showing up late to practice and missing meetings. He should be applauded for holding them accountable
IF a player misses or is late for practices and meetings and breaks rules repeatedly, then he has to suspend them. Part of coaching is convincing your players not to break rules.
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - Dale - 01-10-2015 01:40 AM
When I first began teaching/coaching an old veteran told me, if the consequence does not alter the behavior, then one must alter the consequence. I believe that is what has happened here.
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - Tiger Greg - 01-10-2015 01:51 AM
(01-10-2015 01:40 AM)Dale Wrote: When I first began teaching/coaching an old veteran told me, if the consequence does not alter the behavior, then one must alter the consequence. I believe that is what has happened here.
What consequence did he suggest?
Corporal punishment is a no-no these days. You can't fine them because the kids are technically amateurs.
The only thing you have left is suspension. After that, expulsion.
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - dannyb73 - 01-10-2015 04:34 AM
(01-10-2015 12:58 AM)Stammers Wrote:(01-10-2015 12:54 AM)pkptigers07 Wrote: Most of the suspensions have been for showing up late to practice and missing meetings. He should be applauded for holding them accountable
IF a player misses or is late for practices and meetings and breaks rules repeatedly, then he has to suspend them. Part of coaching is convincing your players not to break rules.
Or run them until they puke.
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - Halfcourt - 01-10-2015 09:49 AM
(01-10-2015 01:51 AM)Tiger Greg Wrote:(01-10-2015 01:40 AM)Dale Wrote: When I first began teaching/coaching an old veteran told me, if the consequence does not alter the behavior, then one must alter the consequence. I believe that is what has happened here.
What consequence did he suggest?
Corporal punishment is a no-no these days. You can't fine them because the kids are technically amateurs.
The only thing you have left is suspension. After that, expulsion.
This is a very limited view. If the bench and suspensions are Pastners only recourse to motivate his players, then this is likely a source of problems with his players.
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - memphistiger001 - 01-10-2015 09:58 AM
(01-09-2015 03:04 PM)memphissince86 Wrote: There has to be some kind of agreement I think between player and coach before the player commits.
Something as in: the player agrees to follow the coach's rules, direction, etc. and in return the coach will make me a better person and player.
Well what we have here is a breakdown in that agreement.
While there may be some suspensions(too many IMO), I think we can all agree that for the most part the players follow the rules.
Helping make someone a better person is I guess up for interpretation for the player mostly and maybe the coach.
But you know if you're getting better as a player.
IMO, the players are saying, "okay I'm doing what you ask of me, but I'm not getting better and this team ain't getting better"
Pastner needs to hold up his end of the bargain. And it doesn't seem like he can.
Time to go.
Rules and policies are in place for good reasons and shouldn't be considered just "guidelines". A "Goal" without discipline and consistency or rules in this case, is just a dream. Without consistency you can't improve.
The lack of individual accountability is destroying our society and country. People aren't being held accountable for their actions or lack thereof. A lesson these kids and others need to learn now.
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - salukiblue - 01-10-2015 10:06 AM
(01-10-2015 04:34 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:(01-10-2015 12:58 AM)Stammers Wrote:(01-10-2015 12:54 AM)pkptigers07 Wrote: Most of the suspensions have been for showing up late to practice and missing meetings. He should be applauded for holding them accountable
IF a player misses or is late for practices and meetings and breaks rules repeatedly, then he has to suspend them. Part of coaching is convincing your players not to break rules.
Or run them until they puke.
This is again another problem with Pastner. He has always held players individually accountable. Sometimes that doesn't work. In many team settings making others pay for an individual's transgressions is the better way to ensure accountability. He claimed this season he would hold the team accountable for individual transgressions. However it appears he did not hold up to his promise going into this season. I haven't heard about the team having to suffer consequences for individuals not showing up to meetings on time. If you can't hold true to what you say people won't believe what you are saying.
"Pastner is disciplining his players a little differently this year. His old approach was to penalize only the infracting player; now, if one player misses class or something of the sort, he’ll discipline the entire team. “Now, you miss class, the whole team’s gonna be held accountable at 5 in the morning,”
I guess this is akin to the "we will press this year" or "defense and conditioning is our focus."
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - P5Tiger - 01-10-2015 10:22 AM
(01-09-2015 08:32 PM)paulnatlanta Wrote:(01-09-2015 03:04 PM)memphissince86 Wrote: There has to be some kind of agreement I think between player and coach before the player commits.
Something as in: the player agrees to follow the coach's rules, direction, etc. and in return the coach will make me a better person and player.
Well what we have here is a breakdown in that agreement.
While there may be some suspensions(too many IMO), I think we can all agree that for the most part the players follow the rules.
Helping make someone a better person is I guess up for interpretation for the player mostly and maybe the coach.
But you know if you're getting better as a player.
IMO, the players are saying, "okay I'm doing what you ask of me, but I'm not getting better and this team ain't getting better"
Pastner needs to hold up his end of the bargain. And it doesn't seem like he can.
Time to go.
I agree mostly. Josh too often forgets that his primary job is to win basketball games not parent 18 year old basketball players. Suspending guys for minor rules violations only serves to piss people off and is not in the best interest of the team.
There are no sportsmanship awards or participation ribbons here. You tell trashon "don't do that again" and move on.
Unfortunately Pastner doesn't know how to teach the game. He does know how to suspend players. He's gravitating towards his strength. Notice strength is not plural
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - salukiblue - 01-10-2015 10:28 AM
It's like this...are you a good parent because you without fail discipline your child for the numerous times he is disrespectful to adults or are you a bad parent because you are always HAVING to discipline your child for that issue?
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - eastcoastDave - 01-10-2015 12:36 PM
Is it too much to ask a kid who's getting a free education to show up for class? Is it too much to ask a basketball player on scholarship to show up on time for team activities? Is it too much to ask a student athlete on scholarship to respect his coaches and not post snarky comments on Facebook or other social media sites. Doing the latter shows enormous immaturity and a lack of respect for the school, the program and the individual himself. I doubt that the rules Pastner imposes are much different than at Kentucky, Kansas, Duke or at any other major program. Can you imagine Coach K at Duke telling an athlete he can show up for a team meeting any time he likes, it's OK to go to class if you like or post any kind of insulting message about the program or the coach?
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - HoopDreams - 01-10-2015 12:44 PM
(01-10-2015 10:28 AM)salukiblue Wrote: It's like this...are you a good parent because you without fail discipline your child for the numerous times he is disrespectful to adults or are you a bad parent because you are always HAVING to discipline your child for that issue?
Or maybe your way of discipline (constant suspensions) suck ass because it punishes everyone else as well.
Maybe he needs a new form of discipline.
Old school coaches would run their ass.
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - dwash - 01-10-2015 12:45 PM
How can anyone miss the main point of the OP lol
We all know that you should disciplined for being late to meetings or missing practice. The point is, if players were excited about coming to work which stems from being put in a position to succeed as a team or atleast as an individual player, players would be less likely to skip or be late to practice. Most players don't ditch practice and coming to play ball because they are just knuckleheads. This all stems from the problems that they are having with the organization as a whole. If the players saw any chance of the fruits of their labor being realized, they would be breaking their necks to please coach and get there on time.
Don't miss what being late to practice, backtalk, etc, really is. It's a sign that some have given up hope.
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - Hoots - 01-10-2015 12:45 PM
(01-10-2015 04:34 AM)dannyb73 Wrote:(01-10-2015 12:58 AM)Stammers Wrote:(01-10-2015 12:54 AM)pkptigers07 Wrote: Most of the suspensions have been for showing up late to practice and missing meetings. He should be applauded for holding them accountable
IF a player misses or is late for practices and meetings and breaks rules repeatedly, then he has to suspend them. Part of coaching is convincing your players not to break rules.
Or run them until they puke.
Totally agree. Nothing worse than knowing you've got a helluva lot of lines to run in your near future. That's the old school way, and I like that.
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - memphistiger001 - 01-10-2015 12:45 PM
(01-10-2015 12:36 PM)eastcoastDave Wrote: Is it too much to ask a kid who's getting a free education to show up for class? Is it too much to ask a basketball player on scholarship to show up on time for team activities? Is it too much to ask a student athlete on scholarship to respect his coaches and not post snarky comments on Facebook or other social media sites. Doing the latter shows enormous immaturity and a lack of respect for the school, the program and the individual himself. I doubt that the rules Pastner imposes are much different than at Kentucky, Kansas, Duke or at any other major program. Can you imagine Coach K at Duke telling an athlete he can show up for a team meeting any time he likes, it's OK to go to class if you like or post any kind of insulting message about the program or the coach?
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - HoopDreams - 01-10-2015 12:46 PM
(01-10-2015 12:45 PM)dwash Wrote: How can anyone miss the main point of the OP lol
We all know that you should disciplined for being late to meetings or missing practice. The point is, if players were excited about coming to work which stems from being put in a position to succeed as a team or atleast as an individual player, players would be less likely to skip or be late to practice. Most players don't ditch practice and coming to play ball because they are just knuckleheads. This all stems from the problems that they are having with the organization as a whole. If the players saw any chance of the fruits of their labor being realized, they would be breaking their necks to please coach and get there on time.
Don't miss what being late to practice, backtalk, etc, really is. It's a sign that some have given up hope.
Spot on
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - memphistiger001 - 01-10-2015 12:51 PM
(01-10-2015 12:46 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:(01-10-2015 12:45 PM)dwash Wrote: How can anyone miss the main point of the OP lol
We all know that you should disciplined for being late to meetings or missing practice. The point is, if players were excited about coming to work which stems from being put in a position to succeed as a team or atleast as an individual player, players would be less likely to skip or be late to practice. Most players don't ditch practice and coming to play ball because they are just knuckleheads. This all stems from the problems that they are having with the organization as a whole. If the players saw any chance of the fruits of their labor being realized, they would be breaking their necks to please coach and get there on time.
Don't miss what being late to practice, backtalk, etc, really is. It's a sign that some have given up hope.
Spot on
Then I feel sorry for you and your kids when this occurs.
RE: Pastners Rules and Players Breaking Them - Tiger1983 - 01-10-2015 12:58 PM
(01-10-2015 12:45 PM)dwash Wrote: How can anyone miss the main point of the OP lol
We all know that you should disciplined for being late to meetings or missing practice. The point is, if players were excited about coming to work which stems from being put in a position to succeed as a team or atleast as an individual player, players would be less likely to skip or be late to practice. Most players don't ditch practice and coming to play ball because they are just knuckleheads. This all stems from the problems that they are having with the organization as a whole. If the players saw any chance of the fruits of their labor being realized, they would be breaking their necks to please coach and get there on time.
Don't miss what being late to practice, backtalk, etc, really is. It's a sign that some have given up hope.
There is no hope.