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Buy out didn't change - Chipdip2 - 12-29-2014 11:18 PM
According to DD, the buy out clause is the same in the new contract as in the old. Started at a million in his first year and goes down 200k each year. By 2019 he can be bought out for a mere 200k.
Honestly, I don't get it. They had some leverage with the buy portion of the contract, but it appears they didn't go down that road at all.
RE: Buy out didn't change - Ubish - 12-29-2014 11:20 PM
this is unbelievable to me. I have no idea what they were thinking. Double the contract, double the buyout. I don't think anyone would be complaining about that.
RE: Buy out didn't change - SilentStryk09 - 12-29-2014 11:30 PM
does anybody know buyouts on other G5 coaches with similar salaries?
RE: Buy out didn't change - SilentStryk09 - 12-29-2014 11:33 PM
Having trouble finding buyout numbers, but i did find this:
http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/
holy crap that's a lot of MAC teams at the bottom. For our conference trying to act like we're above the Sun Belt and CUSA, we sure don't walk the walk there.
RE: Buy out didn't change - Hoekjeness - 12-30-2014 06:20 AM
What I don't get about this re-negotiation is the date changes. I don't like the Dec. 1 date one bit. Seems to essentially counteract the leverage we once had with later buyout dates. I would like more explanation on WMU's part. Curious.
RE: Buy out didn't change - Dirty Ernie - 12-30-2014 07:12 AM
Maybe it is downplaying the power struggle.
We're just saying, Coach Fleck, we sure are glad you are here, we want to compensate you well, we hope you hang around and finish what you started, we love you, when the time comes we want some fair compensation but we won't hold you back.
Contracts don't have to be brutal to be effective. (All the lawyers and judges now rofl).
RE: Buy out didn't change - Hoekjeness - 12-30-2014 08:15 AM
I will say, one thing it does imply is a great deal of trust among all parties (Fleck, WMU, donors).
RE: Buy out didn't change - Chipdip2 - 12-30-2014 09:05 AM
(12-30-2014 08:15 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote: I will say, one thing it does imply is a great deal of trust among all parties (Fleck, WMU, donors).
There is no such thing as trust in contract negotiations. I've sat in on negotiations where people argued for half an hour over using the word "could" or "will." Trust is out the window. It is protect yourself above all. Somebody flinshed in these negotiations.
RE: Buy out didn't change - brovol - 12-30-2014 09:45 AM
(12-30-2014 07:12 AM)Dirty Ernie Wrote: Maybe it is downplaying the power struggle.
We're just saying, Coach Fleck, we sure are glad you are here, we want to compensate you well, we hope you hang around and finish what you started, we love you, when the time comes we want some fair compensation but we won't hold you back.
Contracts don't have to be brutal to be effective. (All the lawyers and judges now rofl).
I agree with you Ernie.
What this contract does is make clear that WMU is committed to Fleck and his plan at the same level that Fleck appears to be. It will undoubtedly help with recruiting, and diffuse concerns that Fleck may be gone after next year (although we all know that if the right offer comes around Fleck would still leave, it tells the recruit that both he and the school are in this for the long haul.....BCS bowl here we come).
More importantly, it will keep Fleck from spending time during the next couple years sniffing or putting out feelers to create opportunities with lower level BCS schools, which is typically where successful MAC coaches gravitate to. He won’t be itching as much for the chance to coach at Indiana, Purdue, Vanderbilt, etc., if he isn’t as tempted by the bigger payday. Those schools may pay more money, but they generally won’t be offering a ton more than what the next tier of schools would offer; and Fleck understands that most of those schools are always going to struggle to compete in their respective conferences, and thus are a risky career move; as compared to a committed WMU, where he is already establishing a program that he can use to build his resume by winning with what he has already began to build in terms of players and facilities.
If Fleck wins a conference championship, and gets us to some higher level bowls, he will have punched his ticket to not just low level BCS offers, but to some of the mid to top level schools. And thus, with the $800,000 per year salary, he will keep his eye on the prize, at least for now, rather than entertain the prospects of coaching at the low BCS schools.
This tells Fleck, “others may think you are nutty, but we see your vision, and we are with you 100%, so stay with us, we will stay with you, and let’s get this done”. If you are a young, optimistic coach with grandiose optimism, this overt expression that your President, AD, and boosters have made in terms of a contract that they were not required to give is like pure gold.
RE: Buy out didn't change - Chipdip2 - 12-30-2014 11:12 AM
How does it keep him from pushing out feelers?
If he has an excessive buy out he's not in a great position to leave unless he is off the charts highly desirable.
In two years when his buy out is at either 400 or 600k, most P5s would pay that price to get him if he had a bango resume.
RE: Buy out didn't change - moe24 - 12-30-2014 11:18 AM
(12-30-2014 06:20 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote: What I don't get about this re-negotiation is the date changes. I don't like the Dec. 1 date one bit. Seems to essentially counteract the leverage we once had with later buyout dates. I would like more explanation on WMU's part. Curious.
If WMU fires him after a bad season they now only have to wait until Dec. 1 to save $200k. And Fleck has to like it too as he only has to wait until Dec. 1 if he takes a better job to save himself $200k (though most P5 schools would pay the buyout for him if they really wanted him).
RE: Buy out didn't change - SilentStryk09 - 12-30-2014 11:27 AM
(12-30-2014 11:18 AM)moe24 Wrote:(12-30-2014 06:20 AM)Hoekjeness Wrote: What I don't get about this re-negotiation is the date changes. I don't like the Dec. 1 date one bit. Seems to essentially counteract the leverage we once had with later buyout dates. I would like more explanation on WMU's part. Curious.
If WMU fires him after a bad season they now only have to wait until Dec. 1 to save $200k. And Fleck has to like it too as he only has to wait until Dec. 1 if he takes a better job to save himself $200k (though most P5 schools would pay the buyout for him if they really wanted him).
Yeah i'll never understand the jan. 1st date as it screws everybody involved.
RE: Buy out didn't change - acer1 - 12-30-2014 11:40 AM
Bravo, Brovo. You have done an excellent job of analyzing this contract and its intent in my opinion. Well written and truthfully said. Did you have any hand in the negotiations?
Always proud to be a Bronco, RTB.
RE: Buy out didn't change - Chipdip2 - 12-30-2014 11:59 AM
(12-30-2014 11:40 AM)acer1 Wrote: Bravo, Brovo. You have done an excellent job of analyzing this contract and its intent in my opinion. Well written and truthfully said. Did you have any hand in the negotiations?
Always proud to be a Bronco, RTB.
So if in year three he wins the MAC, and P5s come calling, what does WMU get in return for taking a chance on PJ Fleck? They get about 200k. Chump change in this era of buy outs. Will barely pay for a search firm to look for the next coach, and won't make ANY school think twice about plucking him away. And if schools want PJ to pay for his buyout he won't have to think twice about it.
They DOUBLED his salary, and in return they got a handshake that he'll stick around, maybe, and if I leave WMU will get little in return. Sounds like a win win for PJ.
RE: Buy out didn't change - MajorHoople - 12-30-2014 12:13 PM
Much ado about nothing.
Why would Fleck leave?
He said when hired he could (would?) win a NC here, doesn't have to go somewhere else to do it.
You know, like Boise State did.
RE: Buy out didn't change - okgc - 12-30-2014 12:17 PM
IMO there is way to much focus on on buy out $$ in D1 football coach salaries. Probably impossible to make buy out dollars high enough to ever make a difference at all.
RE: Buy out didn't change - Chipdip2 - 12-30-2014 12:22 PM
(12-30-2014 12:17 PM)okgc Wrote: IMO there is way to much focus on on buy out $$ in D1 football coach salaries. Probably impossible to make buy out dollars high enough to ever make a difference at all.
It doesn't have to mean that it would keep him here, it's like an insurance policy. When a coach leaves it leaves the program in a bit of a lurch. A nice chunk of change eases that transition and can be put towards negotiating the next coaches salary.
RE: Buy out didn't change - Dirty Ernie - 12-30-2014 01:53 PM
(12-30-2014 12:22 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:(12-30-2014 12:17 PM)okgc Wrote: IMO there is way to much focus on on buy out $$ in D1 football coach salaries. Probably impossible to make buy out dollars high enough to ever make a difference at all.
It doesn't have to mean that it would keep him here, it's like an insurance policy. When a coach leaves it leaves the program in a bit of a lurch. A nice chunk of change eases that transition and can be put towards negotiating the next coaches salary.
In terms of what typically happens at WMU, the coach gets fired. They don't typically move on and leave us in a lurch. Some chance that Fleck will be the exception to the rule, but the odds are even at best. Championships and bowl wins are rare to nil here. He says he is going to change that, but talk is just talk until we see it actually happen.
RE: Buy out didn't change - Chipdip2 - 12-30-2014 02:08 PM
(12-30-2014 01:53 PM)Dirty Ernie Wrote:(12-30-2014 12:22 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:(12-30-2014 12:17 PM)okgc Wrote: IMO there is way to much focus on on buy out $$ in D1 football coach salaries. Probably impossible to make buy out dollars high enough to ever make a difference at all.
It doesn't have to mean that it would keep him here, it's like an insurance policy. When a coach leaves it leaves the program in a bit of a lurch. A nice chunk of change eases that transition and can be put towards negotiating the next coaches salary.
In terms of what typically happens at WMU, the coach gets fired. They don't typically move on and leave us in a lurch. Some chance that Fleck will be the exception to the rule, but the odds are even at best. Championships and bowl wins are rare to nil here. He says he is going to change that, but talk is just talk until we see it actually happen.
You sound like you're banking on enough mediocrity to keep him around. I'm hoping he wins all kind of hardware, and gets chit loads of big offers. Were that the case I'd like to see some continuity in terms of a member of his staff takes over the job. That said, a large buy out kick back would be nice as well, not to mention that it might make him and the low lever P5s think twice about leaving or hiring him.
800K goes a long ways in Kalamazoo. 1.5 Million at Rutgers (just an example) isn't much of a change in terms of cost of living, pressure, etc.
RE: Buy out didn't change - Hoekjeness - 12-30-2014 02:54 PM
We should be rewarded for taking a risk on him.