(02-23-2016 01:25 PM)Mo Blue Den You Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 01:19 PM)ODUBB35 Wrote:  

Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  Snowden has deep 3 point range, I expect to see him start putting up big numbers in the next year or two.

One thing is for certain, we definitely could have used him this year when bacote started to disappear.

I think we could all agree with that. We use anyone at this point as Bacote has gone AWOL.

I know some got "hurt" when people directly called out players, but Im ready for Mr. AWOL to graduate and move on. By far the most frustrating player in an ODU uniform to watch this season...I'm over the "head hanging" crap and I think that goes for a few others on here.

(02-22-2016 03:47 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  Tre Evans' team is now 23-0 and ranked #19 in the country.

http://usatodayhss.com/rankings/expert/boys/basketball/2015/12

(02-23-2016 01:42 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 01:10 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 12:59 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 09:40 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-22-2016 11:35 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  This couldn't possibly be more inaccurate.

He hadn't even played this year, he's been sitting out on a transfer after averaging 10, 6 and 2.3 assists as a sophomore.

He's basically been brandan Stith.

I honestly laughed out loud of claiming he's basically brandan stith.

Last year Snowden averaged 20 pts per 100 possession on 39% field goals. 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, 4 turnovers. O-Rating of 101.6 and d-rating of 107.9. Win shares per 40 of 0.74.

Stith is averaging 25 points per 100 possession on 56% field goals. 22 rebounds. 1 assist, 1 steal, 4 blocks, 3 turnovers. O-rating of 111.4 and a D-rating of 93.9. Win shares per 40 of .172.


To paraphare, Stith is averaging (per 100) 5 more points, 11 more rebounds, and shooting at a rate of 56% compared to 39%. Furthermore Stite has excellent offensive and defensive ratings while Snowden has been pretty bad offensively and terrible defensively.

I didn't go into any advance metrics to make the argument.

Stith is averaging 10.3 points a game as a sophomore. Snowden averaged 10.7.

Rebounds 9.2-6.0 advantage Stith
Blocks are definitely in stiths favor.
Assists - Snowden 2.3, Stith 0.4

Obviously one is a SF and one is a PF.

Stith was also required to do much more offensively on an awful niagara team where he was usually the other teams main focus.

Stith has been great but he is most assuredly not the other teams primary focus. Not to mention any big man is going to shoot better from the field than a guard because they take higher percentage shots/get more putbacks.

Again I was not saying they are the same type of player what I was stating is that from a purely per game average as far as rebounding, scoring, assists etc., they were pretty much even. Advance metrics give the advantage to Stith and rightfully so, but
I have a feeling Snowden will start putting up much better numbers with jmu than he did with niagara, just as stiths numbers improved coming to odu from ecu.

Snowden has deep 3 point range, I expect to see him start putting up big numbers in the next year or two.

One thing is for certain, we definitely could have used him this year when bacote started to disappear.

Snowden shot 39% from the field. I could average 10 points per game if I shot that many times. Of course, simply using points per game is an awful measure to come up with any type of comparison. You way of claiming the two were anywhere even remotely similar was asinine.

Now, you bring up Bacote. Bacote is also a far superior player to Snowden. Do I need to post those numbers as well?

Or can you just make it easy on us and admit that you were wrong on Snowden?

Says the guy who compared his to biberaj???

His number are much closer to stiths than they are to nick's. Period.

(02-23-2016 02:12 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 01:42 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 01:10 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 12:59 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 09:40 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  I honestly laughed out loud of claiming he's basically brandan stith.

Last year Snowden averaged 20 pts per 100 possession on 39% field goals. 11 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 1 block, 4 turnovers. O-Rating of 101.6 and d-rating of 107.9. Win shares per 40 of 0.74.

Stith is averaging 25 points per 100 possession on 56% field goals. 22 rebounds. 1 assist, 1 steal, 4 blocks, 3 turnovers. O-rating of 111.4 and a D-rating of 93.9. Win shares per 40 of .172.


To paraphare, Stith is averaging (per 100) 5 more points, 11 more rebounds, and shooting at a rate of 56% compared to 39%. Furthermore Stite has excellent offensive and defensive ratings while Snowden has been pretty bad offensively and terrible defensively.

I didn't go into any advance metrics to make the argument.

Stith is averaging 10.3 points a game as a sophomore. Snowden averaged 10.7.

Rebounds 9.2-6.0 advantage Stith
Blocks are definitely in stiths favor.
Assists - Snowden 2.3, Stith 0.4

Obviously one is a SF and one is a PF.

Stith was also required to do much more offensively on an awful niagara team where he was usually the other teams main focus.

Stith has been great but he is most assuredly not the other teams primary focus. Not to mention any big man is going to shoot better from the field than a guard because they take higher percentage shots/get more putbacks.

Again I was not saying they are the same type of player what I was stating is that from a purely per game average as far as rebounding, scoring, assists etc., they were pretty much even. Advance metrics give the advantage to Stith and rightfully so, but
I have a feeling Snowden will start putting up much better numbers with jmu than he did with niagara, just as stiths numbers improved coming to odu from ecu.

Snowden has deep 3 point range, I expect to see him start putting up big numbers in the next year or two.

One thing is for certain, we definitely could have used him this year when bacote started to disappear.

Snowden shot 39% from the field. I could average 10 points per game if I shot that many times. Of course, simply using points per game is an awful measure to come up with any type of comparison. You way of claiming the two were anywhere even remotely similar was asinine.

Now, you bring up Bacote. Bacote is also a far superior player to Snowden. Do I need to post those numbers as well?

Or can you just make it easy on us and admit that you were wrong on Snowden?

Says the guy who compared his to biberaj???

His number are much closer to stiths than they are to nick's. Period.

Here you go: (per 100 possessions) (using Snowden 2015 season)

Points
Bacote- 32.7
Stith- 24.8
Snowden- 20
Biberaj-15.9

Rebounds
Stith- 22.2
Biberaj- 11.8
Snowden- 11.2
Bacote- 6.5

Assists
Bacote- 5.7
Snowden- 4.4
Biberaj- 2.8
Stith- 0.9

Steals
Bacote- 2.1
Snowden- 2.1
Biberaj- 1.3
Stith- 1.0

Blocks
Stith- 4.1
Biberaj- 2.5
Snowden- 0.9
Bacote- 0.6

Turnovers
Snowden- 4.0
Bacote- 3.9
Stith- 3.1
Biberaj- 1.8

O-Rating
Bacote- 113.6
Stith-111.4
Biberaj- 104.6
Snowden- 101.6

D- Rating
Stith- 93.9
Biberaj- 100.3
Bacote- 101.6
Snowden- 107.9

Wins shares (per 40)
Stith- .172
Bacote- .172
Biberaj- .105
Snowden- .074

Perhaps you will notice that Snowden average 20 points per 100 possessions simply because he shoots way too much. Is inferior in almost every aspect to the 3 other players mentioned. Also, you can take note of how low he is ranked in advanced statistics due to how inefficient he is and how bad his defense is.

You are out of your league.

(02-23-2016 02:45 PM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  So, is there room on the roster for a fifth year graduate, or is the 2016 class complete?

(02-23-2016 02:45 PM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  So, is there room on the roster for a fifth year graduate, or is the 2016 class complete?

(02-23-2016 03:00 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 02:45 PM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  So, is there room on the roster for a fifth year graduate, or is the 2016 class complete?

There is room for at least one more, maybe two.

Scholarship players:

Baker
Taylor
Colbert
Porter
Caver
Talley
Carver
Kah
Haynes
Evans
Green

Then, of course, we have the two Stith boys. Obviously, both are worth of scholarships, but either or both could pay their own way to open up a scholarship, if necessary.

(02-23-2016 02:56 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Of course you don't agree because it proves how wrong you are.

But, to humor you and counter your Snowden is the focal point argument, Snowden was behind 5 other guys in usage rate. He was 3rd on the team in field goal attempts per 100 possessions (with 4 guys breathing down his neck). Its essentially a model of spreading the ball around. The narrative that he was "the guy" on offense is patently false.

Field Goal Attemps:
Reid 24.1, Usage-30.1%
Blackman 21.3, Usage 23.1%
Snowden 15.7, Usage 20%
Richardson 15.3, Usage 18.2%
Harris 15.2, Usage 23.4%
Myers- 15.2, Usage 18.5%
Scott 15.1, 20.6%


The fact of the matter is Snowden is a 3 point shooter of offesne (50% of his attempts were 3) and shot at 34%....decent, but nothing special. Despite his game being almost solely standing at the 3 point line, he still turned the ball over a high amount (especially for a non primary ball handler). He is not a good free throw shooter (62%). Nothing else is really worthwhile in his game he's non factor. He was probably the 3rd or 4th best player on a 8-22 team in the MAAC.

(02-23-2016 03:10 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:00 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 02:45 PM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  So, is there room on the roster for a fifth year graduate, or is the 2016 class complete?

There is room for at least one more, maybe two.

Scholarship players:

Baker
Taylor
Colbert
Porter
Caver
Talley
Carver
Kah
Haynes
Evans
Green

Then, of course, we have the two Stith boys. Obviously, both are worth of scholarships, but either or both could pay their own way to open up a scholarship, if necessary.

Oh my. I did not realize that there could be two available. This has been discussed before but do we know if they are walk ons because of staff gaining free tuition? Or would they have to pay their own way?

(02-23-2016 03:20 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:10 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:00 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 02:45 PM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  So, is there room on the roster for a fifth year graduate, or is the 2016 class complete?

There is room for at least one more, maybe two.

Scholarship players:

Baker
Taylor
Colbert
Porter
Caver
Talley
Carver
Kah
Haynes
Evans
Green

Then, of course, we have the two Stith boys. Obviously, both are worth of scholarships, but either or both could pay their own way to open up a scholarship, if necessary.

Oh my. I did not realize that there could be two available. This has been discussed before but do we know if they are walk ons because of staff gaining free tuition? Or would they have to pay their own way?

I remember reading on here that the stith's don't get free tuition, but its discounted. If that is indeed true, I would assume that since he played a few years in the NBA he doesn't have too much trouble funding the difference.

somewhat similar, I remember Doug McDermott's teams didn't have to use a scholarship on him since his dad was a coach.

(02-23-2016 03:19 PM)Razor Ramon Monarch Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 02:56 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Of course you don't agree because it proves how wrong you are.

But, to humor you and counter your Snowden is the focal point argument, Snowden was behind 5 other guys in usage rate. He was 3rd on the team in field goal attempts per 100 possessions (with 4 guys breathing down his neck). Its essentially a model of spreading the ball around. The narrative that he was "the guy" on offense is patently false.

Field Goal Attemps:
Reid 24.1, Usage-30.1%
Blackman 21.3, Usage 23.1%
Snowden 15.7, Usage 20%
Richardson 15.3, Usage 18.2%
Harris 15.2, Usage 23.4%
Myers- 15.2, Usage 18.5%
Scott 15.1, 20.6%


The fact of the matter is Snowden is a 3 point shooter of offesne (50% of his attempts were 3) and shot at 34%....decent, but nothing special. Despite his game being almost solely standing at the 3 point line, he still turned the ball over a high amount (especially for a non primary ball handler). He is not a good free throw shooter (62%). Nothing else is really worthwhile in his game he's non factor. He was probably the 3rd or 4th best player on a 8-22 team in the MAAC.

And yet he'd still have been the best 3 point shooter on our team by 2%. And again, none of the metrics you are using refute my point, which is that all things are not equal played out over an "average".

Given the same amount of "shots" or total usage, if you think biberaj would put up similar stats to what he puts up in limited shots you are nuts.

And his %'s aren't even remotely as good as Snowden's.

Again, this is why metrics are far more valuable for baseball and far less important when discussing basketball, particularly college basketball.

(02-23-2016 01:22 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  This discussion is interesting, but every time I see the thread has a new post I open it hoping to hear about a new recruit. Think you guys could move the discussion somewhere else?

(02-23-2016 03:31 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:20 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  I remember reading on here that the stith's don't get free tuition, but its discounted. If that is indeed true, I would assume that since he played a few years in the NBA he doesn't have too much trouble funding the difference.

somewhat similar, I remember Doug McDermott's teams didn't have to use a scholarship on him since his dad was a coach.

Interesting...if this is the case and they are both W/O's why wouldn't we shoot for two grad transfers? Shonn Miller at UCONN is arguably their best player.

(02-23-2016 03:39 PM)Monarch Homselr Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 01:22 PM)Old Dominion Wrote:  This discussion is interesting, but every time I see the thread has a new post I open it hoping to hear about a new recruit. Think you guys could move the discussion somewhere else?

I totally agree. It's gotten to where to where every thread you may be interested in...no matter what the heading...devolves into the same ol' stuff.

(02-23-2016 03:31 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:20 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:10 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:00 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 02:45 PM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  So, is there room on the roster for a fifth year graduate, or is the 2016 class complete?

There is room for at least one more, maybe two.

Scholarship players:

Baker
Taylor
Colbert
Porter
Caver
Talley
Carver
Kah
Haynes
Evans
Green

Then, of course, we have the two Stith boys. Obviously, both are worth of scholarships, but either or both could pay their own way to open up a scholarship, if necessary.

Oh my. I did not realize that there could be two available. This has been discussed before but do we know if they are walk ons because of staff gaining free tuition? Or would they have to pay their own way?

I remember reading on here that the stith's don't get free tuition, but its discounted. If that is indeed true, I would assume that since he played a few years in the NBA he doesn't have too much trouble funding the difference.

somewhat similar, I remember Doug McDermott's teams didn't have to use a scholarship on him since his dad was a coach.

Interesting...if this is the case and they are both W/O's why wouldn't we shoot for two grad transfers? Shonn Miller at UCONN is arguably their best player.

(02-23-2016 03:48 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:31 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:20 PM)ODU_NYG Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:10 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-23-2016 03:00 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  There is room for at least one more, maybe two.

Scholarship players:

Baker
Taylor
Colbert
Porter
Caver
Talley
Carver
Kah
Haynes
Evans
Green

Then, of course, we have the two Stith boys. Obviously, both are worth of scholarships, but either or both could pay their own way to open up a scholarship, if necessary.

Oh my. I did not realize that there could be two available. This has been discussed before but do we know if they are walk ons because of staff gaining free tuition? Or would they have to pay their own way?

I remember reading on here that the stith's don't get free tuition, but its discounted. If that is indeed true, I would assume that since he played a few years in the NBA he doesn't have too much trouble funding the difference.

somewhat similar, I remember Doug McDermott's teams didn't have to use a scholarship on him since his dad was a coach.

Interesting...if this is the case and they are both W/O's why wouldn't we shoot for two grad transfers? Shonn Miller at UCONN is arguably their best player.

This is actually an interesting discussion to have. With 8 new players for next year already, is it in our best interest to use those scholarships? My take is that anybody that you bring in needs to be able to start or at least contribute very heavily from day one, and should be clearly better than the player that they will move ahead of in the depth chart.