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Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - ohio1317 - 12-07-2014 12:44 AM
People are now mad at co-champs being presented. I understand that, but think the following points need to be remembered:
1. If Florida State and Ohio State lost (or just Florida State depending on the committees mood), then both TCU and Baylor make the playoff while with a CCG it's much more likely only one of them does.
2. A CCG hurt the Big 12 many times in the BCS era and debatable if it ever once helped them.
3. Co-champions is the traditional way things are done in all traditional set-up conferences. Tie breakers are used to decide things like bowl placements.
4. Baylor beat TCU. They then lost to West Virginia. TCU beat West Virgina. If Baylor wanted to be sole champs, they needed to take of business against West Virgina.
Now all that said, I have no idea how it will turn out between Baylor, TCU, and Ohio State tomorrow. I hope my Buckeyes are in, but if they are out, they have no right to complain given they lost to Virginia Tech.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - He1nousOne - 12-07-2014 12:46 AM
I think Ohio State ends up getting in because there is no right decision for the Committee between TCU and Baylor.
They cant kick FSU out, they are the undefeated defending champions. You have to make someone beat them.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - vandiver49 - 12-07-2014 01:40 AM
What happened to 'one true champion'? I think they keep TCU in because of the current teams in the top 4, not have a truly bad loss.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - USAFMEDIC - 12-07-2014 01:43 AM
(12-07-2014 01:40 AM)vandiver49 Wrote: What happened to 'one true champion'? I think they keep TCU in because of the current teams in the top 4, not have a truly bad loss.Guess you have been watching that commercial all year too. The Big XII is trying to game the system now. Man up. Make the Big XII a twelve team conference and play a big boy game like the rest of us.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - Otacon - 12-07-2014 08:36 AM
Would you "man up" and pick Memphis and Cinci for your conference?
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - goofus - 12-07-2014 08:49 AM
Fans recognize B.S. when they hear it.
Pushing the co-champions idea was a bad public relations move.
Making an argument that a CCG can hurt your chances makes the conference look like cowards.
Man up and have teams that want to prove they deserve the conference championship. Not run away from it or want to change the rules in the middle of the season.
What is TCU doing claiming they are champions? They knew the rules at the start of the season. They lost head to head. They know Baylor deserves that spot. TCU and Big 12 should do the right thing, and admit it.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - bearcat29 - 12-07-2014 08:50 AM
(12-07-2014 08:36 AM)Otacon Wrote: Would you "man up" and pick Memphis and Cinci for your conference?
No, but BYU is better than 1/2 the P5 teams in facilities, history etc. Then add one more and see what you have. I think UC, UCF etc would grow quite with a p5 paycheck and their recruiting grounds. The BE did wonders for UC in a short time.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - tigersmoke1 - 12-07-2014 08:59 AM
I think memphis and ucf would be amazing gets. Those 2 held on and kept growing even after being left behind in cusa. Even after all those big east checks and aq status we are still co champs with cincy.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - cleburneslim - 12-07-2014 09:00 AM
8 team playoff.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - ken d - 12-07-2014 09:06 AM
So, if the Big 12 is the only conference to place three teams in NY6 bowls, is it really worth paying out $millions to two other schools who won't produce significant revenue just because you MIGHT sometimes not get to play in the High Resource Group Mini Invitational Tournament?
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - ohio1317 - 12-07-2014 09:18 AM
"One True Champion" was always worded wrong. It was meant to highlight that the conference had a better way of determining champions than the CCG model (which I agree), but they never should have included the word one in it as there was always the option of multiple.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - 10thMountain - 12-07-2014 10:15 AM
(12-07-2014 08:49 AM)goofus Wrote: Fans recognize B.S. when they hear it.
Pushing the co-champions idea was a bad public relations move.
Making an argument that a CCG can hurt your chances makes the conference look like cowards.
Man up and have teams that want to prove they deserve the conference championship. Not run away from it or want to change the rules in the middle of the season.
What is TCU doing claiming they are champions? They knew the rules at the start of the season. They lost head to head. They know Baylor deserves that spot. TCU and Big 12 should do the right thing, and admit it.
TCU is claiming the championship because by the Big 12 rules that they and everyone else agreed to, they are entitled to one. That's why they were presented with the B12 trophy after beating ISU. Just like OU got a trophy and title in 2012 even though KSU won their H2H.
You can't just change your conferences rules in the middle of the season to try and get a team in the playoff. If the B12 wants to add tie breaker rules this offseason so that One True Champions becomes a real thing instead of a marketing ploy, fine but under this year's rules, TCU is officially the B12 champ too
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - He1nousOne - 12-07-2014 10:34 AM
Sounds like a nice start to a fissure within the Big 12.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - He1nousOne - 12-07-2014 10:39 AM
Perhaps you should go tell Art Briles about this bylaw not existing because he was just on ESPN in an interview and he claimed that bylaw exists. I think I will take his opinion on this one. The Big 12 is acting very shady.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - Knightsweat - 12-07-2014 10:49 AM
(12-07-2014 10:34 AM)He1nousOne Wrote: Sounds like a nice start to a fissure within the Big 12.
From a realignment standpoint, there's been a fissure in the Big12 for some time. OU and several other programs want expansion, UT doesn't. Now usually majority wins except UT has threatened to leave if that happens, and with ESPN's blessing, if necessary. With the exception OU/OSU, and maybe a couple of others, the Big12 relies on UT's membership for stability.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - Tulsaguy - 12-07-2014 10:52 AM
(12-07-2014 08:49 AM)goofus Wrote: Fans recognize B.S. when they hear it.
Pushing the co-champions idea was a bad public relations move.
Making an argument that a CCG can hurt your chances makes the conference look like cowards.
Man up and have teams that want to prove they deserve the conference championship. Not run away from it or want to change the rules in the middle of the season.
What is TCU doing claiming they are champions? They knew the rules at the start of the season. They lost head to head. They know Baylor deserves that spot. TCU and Big 12 should do the right thing, and admit it.
Except for the fact that it did hurt the big 12 plenty of times. Oklahoma in 03, misdouti in 07, Texas in 01, k state in 98 Nebraska in the first ever ccg. The big 12 had the opposite of sec luck in terms of those games.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - Tulsaguy - 12-07-2014 10:55 AM
(12-07-2014 10:49 AM)Knightsweat Wrote:(12-07-2014 10:34 AM)He1nousOne Wrote: Sounds like a nice start to a fissure within the Big 12.
From a realignment standpoint, there's been a fissure in the Big12 for some time. OU and several other programs want expansion, UT doesn't. Now usually majority wins except UT has threatened to leave if that happens, and with ESPN's blessing, if necessary. With the exception OU/OSU, and maybe a couple of others, the Big12 relies on UT's membership for stability.
Texas, Oklahoma, osu, KU, and WVU are safe. Ksu and tech may be. Outside of those programs the rest of the big 12 could be in the American in 5 years depending on what happens.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - nastar36 - 12-07-2014 10:58 AM
(12-07-2014 08:36 AM)Otacon Wrote: Would you "man up" and pick Memphis and Cinci for your conference?Yes, in a second. What's not to like? at top of athletic budgets of G5s, plays in 60,000 seat stadium, area produces tons of P5 players... great recruiting, n heart of SEC territory...in fact ESPN says third highest cfb watched in the country. It is geographically a good fit. Memphis with P5 resources would build up quickly and half of ole miss recruits and fans would flip to Memphis overnight.
Memphis has great basketball too, and plays in a 18000 seat arena to sold out crowds.
If the Big12 wants to get to 12 and have a ccg. Wants to expand its footprint, get more eyeballs and recruits, build a bridge to west virginia, etc....then YES, by far, Memphis is the best add possible.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - He1nousOne - 12-07-2014 11:05 AM
(12-07-2014 10:55 AM)Tulsaguy Wrote:(12-07-2014 10:49 AM)Knightsweat Wrote:(12-07-2014 10:34 AM)He1nousOne Wrote: Sounds like a nice start to a fissure within the Big 12.
From a realignment standpoint, there's been a fissure in the Big12 for some time. OU and several other programs want expansion, UT doesn't. Now usually majority wins except UT has threatened to leave if that happens, and with ESPN's blessing, if necessary. With the exception OU/OSU, and maybe a couple of others, the Big12 relies on UT's membership for stability.
Texas, Oklahoma, osu, KU, and WVU are safe. Ksu and tech may be. Outside of those programs the rest of the big 12 could be in the American in 5 years depending on what happens.
For Any of them to move it would require a dissolution at this point. There is still too long on their GoR. That means at least 8 teams have to have an out to a Major Conference. I highly doubt anyone wants the negative PR and the possible legal ramifications for how much it would cost the two left out schools if they ended up in a lesser conference.
Nah, the Big 12 as a whole will demand all 10 teams get into a Major Conference before their dissolution vote goes through. What they need now is a very public issue to arise that gives cover fire for the vote. We may be seeing the start of that now depending upon what the Committee does.
RE: Keeping Big 12 situation in perspective - Knightsweat - 12-07-2014 11:05 AM
(12-07-2014 10:52 AM)Tulsaguy Wrote:(12-07-2014 08:49 AM)goofus Wrote: Fans recognize B.S. when they hear it.
Pushing the co-champions idea was a bad public relations move.
Making an argument that a CCG can hurt your chances makes the conference look like cowards.
Man up and have teams that want to prove they deserve the conference championship. Not run away from it or want to change the rules in the middle of the season.
What is TCU doing claiming they are champions? They knew the rules at the start of the season. They lost head to head. They know Baylor deserves that spot. TCU and Big 12 should do the right thing, and admit it.
Except for the fact that it did hurt the big 12 plenty of times. Oklahoma in 03, misdouti in 07, Texas in 01, k state in 98 Nebraska in the first ever ccg. The big 12 had the opposite of sec luck in terms of those games.
The paradigm has shifted since most of those examples. Back then the Big12 was one of the few conferences with the CCG, which was a result of the method in which the Big12 was created. Texas politics required more SWC teams join this new conference than what was originally planned for (hello Baylor and Tortilla Tech). So given no choice, they opted for 12 teams vs. 10, and the CCG because there was considerable TV money in it for the conference. In fact, it might have been because of this that the 12 team rule was put in place, but that's conjecture on my part.
Once aTm, Nebraska, Colorado, and Missouri left (because of uneven TV payouts) the Big 12 added WVU and TCU to stop the bleeding, and were guaranteed equal monies from FOX and ESPN for 10 teams vs. 12 teams. Now the CCG is a bad thing because with 10 teams, the Big12 payout is higher than any other conference (currently, but that's about to change due to conference networks).
So, long story short, All of the P5 conferences are now doing the CCG, except for the Big12, which makes a lack of a CCG an unfair advantage, and I think the CFP committee will agree, and I know the other conferences agree.