(10-04-2014 06:14 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Then how do you explain Butler to the Big East? Creighton made sense as program overall despite underachieving some but I said when Butler was in the process of being added that they may never get back to that level again and while "never" is not really the best term, so far it's looking like they are on par to becoming another Seton Hall as opposed to Duke.

(10-04-2014 06:03 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Because a team is having a good season (sometimes, just a good start), they suddenly start getting touted to join a better conference? For example, with all due respect to ECU, who has a bigger stadium and fan base than many P5 let alone G5 schools, they instantly got touted for the ACC (and lesser extent) after a couple good wins. Are they not basically the same program as they were last year? Meanwhile, you almost no longer hear about UCF after their slow start.

It's just a little tiring dealing with the instant reaction society.

(10-04-2014 08:36 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I was just making an example. The fact is they were a flavor of the moment and a risk. Creighton at least had everything else together except for success on the court at a very high level. Imagine if the Pac-12 (ignoring academics for a moment) had added Boise State because of a solid decade and then be left with what they currently are.

And of course that's still very extreme compared to a team getting a few good wins or getting off to a good start and suddenly being mentioned for all expansion scenarios.

(10-04-2014 09:58 PM)The Cutter of Bish Wrote:  

(10-04-2014 06:03 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Because a team is having a good season (sometimes, just a good start), they suddenly start getting touted to join a better conference? For example, with all due respect to ECU, who has a bigger stadium and fan base than many P5 let alone G5 schools, they instantly got touted for the ACC (and lesser extent) after a couple good wins. Are they not basically the same program as they were last year? Meanwhile, you almost no longer hear about UCF after their slow start.

It's just a little tiring dealing with the instant reaction society.

They're a flavor? ECU's been playing good football since the 90's. Even beat one of those fabled Miami teams. Couldn't even get a sniff from the Big East.

I agree with the greater point, and UCF is definitely one of those that would qualify for such a title, but ECU's been a relatively consistent contributor in football for almost 25 years now.

(10-05-2014 06:54 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The point I'm making is that as recently as a month ago nobody (except message board posters) we're talking about ECU as an expansion candidate to anywhere and now all of a sudden after a good start, writers in the region are touting them as a strong program that should be in the ACC (and on this board, Big 12). ECU as a program wasn't really any different in August as they are now but suddenly they are the program that should be in a major conference? That's all I'm saying.

(10-04-2014 08:36 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  I was just making an example. The fact is they were a flavor of the moment and a risk. Creighton at least had everything else together except for success on the court at a very high level. Imagine if the Pac-12 (ignoring academics for a moment) had added Boise State because of a solid decade and then be left with what they currently are.

And of course that's still very extreme compared to a team getting a few good wins or getting off to a good start and suddenly being mentioned for all expansion scenarios.

(10-05-2014 08:25 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(10-05-2014 06:54 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The point I'm making is that as recently as a month ago nobody (except message board posters) we're talking about ECU as an expansion candidate to anywhere and now all of a sudden after a good start, writers in the region are touting them as a strong program that should be in the ACC (and on this board, Big 12). ECU as a program wasn't really any different in August as they are now but suddenly they are the program that should be in a major conference? That's all I'm saying.

I think that's mostly local Carolina writers, not journalists who follow CFB as a whole or follow realignment or sources in AD and president and network and conference offices.

I follow Clay Travis's stuff, and the "ECU to the ACC!" stuff has been more like his clickbait "Dumbest Fan Bases" series than his more serious back-of-the-napkin calculations of how much money the SEC Network was going to make.

I'm not saying Travis' articles on the SEC Network are right, just that he spent a little bit of time on google doing his research there, as opposed to his "dumbest fan bases series" where he just had the equivalent of column-inches to fill and started typing. The "ECU should be in the ACC title game!" articles have been more of the "Let me start typing my thoughts because deadline is in X hours."

(10-05-2014 06:54 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The point I'm making is that as recently as a month ago nobody (except message board posters) we're talking about ECU as an expansion candidate to anywhere and now all of a sudden after a good start, writers in the region are touting them as a strong program that should be in the ACC (and on this board, Big 12). ECU as a program wasn't really any different in August as they are now but suddenly they are the program that should be in a major conference? That's all I'm saying.

(10-05-2014 08:44 AM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(10-05-2014 06:54 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The point I'm making is that as recently as a month ago nobody (except message board posters) we're talking about ECU as an expansion candidate to anywhere and now all of a sudden after a good start, writers in the region are touting them as a strong program that should be in the ACC (and on this board, Big 12). ECU as a program wasn't really any different in August as they are now but suddenly they are the program that should be in a major conference? That's all I'm saying.

That's because it's a caste system and you are judged by the conf you are currently in. I think this may be playing in to the b12 situation as I couldn't imagine tx allowing folks from cusa directly into it's conf. I think the AAC is the minors and an incubator league for the p5


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(10-05-2014 09:20 AM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(10-05-2014 08:44 AM)Knightbengal Wrote:  

(10-05-2014 06:54 AM)_C2_ Wrote:  The point I'm making is that as recently as a month ago nobody (except message board posters) we're talking about ECU as an expansion candidate to anywhere and now all of a sudden after a good start, writers in the region are touting them as a strong program that should be in the ACC (and on this board, Big 12). ECU as a program wasn't really any different in August as they are now but suddenly they are the program that should be in a major conference? That's all I'm saying.

That's because it's a caste system and you are judged by the conf you are currently in. I think this may be playing in to the b12 situation as I couldn't imagine tx allowing folks from cusa directly into it's conf. I think the AAC is the minors and an incubator league for the p5


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It is a caste system, but I don't think AAC vs CUSA matters as much as you think. The PAC took Utah from the MWC, which was on about the same level as CUSA, and the Big 12 took TCU from the MWC, unless you think that the Big East label helped TCU at all.

The most likely candidates to get pulled up (east of I-35, anyway) are all in the AAC, but that's why they're in the AAC in the first place (fanbase, location, history, tradition, etc). If ECU were for some reason (still) not brought in to the Aresco League in the fall of 2012, they'd still be scheduling SC and UNC and VT, and if they win a couple of Access Bowls out of CUSA they're in about the same position as if they win them from the AAC.

The P5-G5 gap is big enough that, from the P5 side of it, the differences between the G5 conferences look small.

ECU is getting talked about by normally-ACC journalists because they're a P5-ish looking program that's hot right now, when the "Coastal Division" (or maybe the ACC as a whole outside of FSU is a wreck.

(10-04-2014 08:20 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(10-04-2014 06:14 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Then how do you explain Butler to the Big East? Creighton made sense as program overall despite underachieving some but I said when Butler was in the process of being added that they may never get back to that level again and while "never" is not really the best term, so far it's looking like they are on par to becoming another Seton Hall as opposed to Duke.

2 Final Fours in 2 years, 4 Sweet Sixteens in 10 years is more than just a Flavor of the Moment. A decade equals a resume.

Plus, Indianapolis is a solid market, and Butler as a small private university fits well enough with the Catholic schools of the Big East.

Imagine Butler as Boise with solid academics. They' be in a power conference.