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+------ Thread: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development (/thread-700968.html)
Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - Hiller4Hyz09 - 08-31-2014 01:37 PM
Chance Stewart.
This is an intriguing debate. Someone on Mlive comments "if he's going to be our QB of the future, why not let him get experience now?"
Others say "redshirt him this year to get more physically developed and used to the system."
Where do our resident coaches fall in this debate? Would love to hear your perspectives.
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - Chipdip2 - 08-31-2014 01:45 PM
Having coached several years of boys and girls basketball at the middle school level, this is my "coaches take."
Redshirt CS but get Thomas some meaningful reps and see how he does in game situations.
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - MileHighBronco - 08-31-2014 01:52 PM
I'm firmly in the camp of RS him and if we need to, get Thomas some PT.
It might mean giving up on the dream of going 11-1 this season, but somewhere along the way, sacrifices need to be made so we are ready for that NC run in '16.
To me, this is a no brainer. To others of the 'I want it now' generation, CS should play ASAP. Doubt he is near ready. Few Freshmen QBs are.
For now, ZT is the man and he knows that he must play better than he did yesterday. I give him somewhat of a pass due to first game jitters in the first half yesterday but if he wants to continue to be the starter, he needs to be "on" when he comes outta the gate. Can't wait until the second half to execute.
We've got some weapons on offense but if the QB can't get them the ball, what use are they?
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - Hoekjeness - 08-31-2014 02:16 PM
I think most know how I feel by now, but I'll re-iterate my stance since there's a whole thread dedicated to the subject matter now.
Based on the play of our offensive line (seemed very good against a B1G front), Terrell is on a short leash. At the end of the day, he was getting good time and protection for the most part throughout the afternoon. In addition, it appears he's got more weapons surrounding him this year (Franklin, Braverman, Phillips, etc.), as well as more knowledge and freedom (trust) with the playbook.
If he continues to struggle against Idaho and Murray State, I want to see a change. My first preference is giving Cam Thomas a shot and seeing how he does. If Thomas struggles, I wouldn't mind burning Stewart's redshirt, but only if it's somewhere between game 6-8 (Ball State, BGSU, Ohio) -- before that seems premature, and after that seems like it may not be worth it that late in the season to burn the redshirt.
Right now, I'm taking it one game at a time. But I will be adamant about a change if I don't see improvement against Idaho and Murray State. If yesterday's team looked like a team capable of winning just one or two games like last season, I'd probably be content riding Terrell and letting the year play out. But after watching us against Purdue, I believe this team is capable of winning 5 or 6 games. If Terrell flounders, it is worth it to me to throw someone else in there and give them a shot to see if they can possibly bring us to bowl eligibility, especially since the latter part of our schedule softens up a bit.
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - Hiller4Hyz09 - 08-31-2014 02:23 PM
I have a good feeling that ZT will adjust against Idaho with the bye week to prepare.
I'm sure analysis will be hard against VT, and he'll play well against Murray. So, still no Cam Thomas.
I agree that Chance should redshirt.
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - Hoekjeness - 08-31-2014 02:27 PM
I'd be surprised if Terrell didn't play well against Idaho in two weeks.
But let me throw a scenario out there...
We trail Idaho 28-7 at halftime, Terrell is having another slow start, our defense is struggling, Franklin is dominating on the ground and has our only TD of the game... if you're Fleck what do you do? How long do you let this continue?
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - Chipdip2 - 08-31-2014 02:48 PM
I believe he asked for coaches input. What are your credentials?
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - Hoekjeness - 08-31-2014 02:57 PM
(08-31-2014 02:48 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: I believe he asked for coaches input. What are your credentials?
I coached the Western Michigan Broncos to five BCS bowl appearances and 4 straight undefeated seasons on dynasty mode, expert level in NCAA Football '09 once.
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - Chipdip2 - 08-31-2014 03:53 PM
(08-31-2014 02:57 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:(08-31-2014 02:48 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: I believe he asked for coaches input. What are your credentials?
I coached the Western Michigan Broncos to five BCS bowl appearances and 4 straight undefeated seasons on dynasty mode, expert level in NCAA Football '09 once.
Totally counts. Now do you have any fantasy football to add to your resume?
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - Hoekjeness - 08-31-2014 03:55 PM
(08-31-2014 03:53 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:(08-31-2014 02:57 PM)Hoekjeness Wrote:(08-31-2014 02:48 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote: I believe he asked for coaches input. What are your credentials?
I coached the Western Michigan Broncos to five BCS bowl appearances and 4 straight undefeated seasons on dynasty mode, expert level in NCAA Football '09 once.
Totally counts. Now do you have any fantasy football to add to your resume?
10+ years of experience, won back to back league titles in '12 and '13 in one league, runner-up last year in the other one.
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - Cant make this sh t up - 08-31-2014 05:39 PM
If I am CS watching this game I am thinking red shirt me please, cause I WILL be the starter next year once I learn this system.
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - WheresWaldo42 - 08-31-2014 05:55 PM
Personally I think it comes down to WHEN you decide he's ready to play.
If after 3 or 4 games you've seen enough and want to get Stewart in for 8 games to get experience, then I might say ok. At least the plan would be to get him PLENTY of experience.
If after 8 games you think, "well we are 2-6, let's give the kid a look". Then I think it's a total waste. You are burning a red shirt for 4 games.
There also has to be some thought regarding future confidence if you put him into a situation where he is going to struggle.
I think it's best to ride out what we think is going to be a rough season with Terrell and/or Thomas. And give Stewart every chance to be the man next year.
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - chipfan - 08-31-2014 06:09 PM
FWIW, I think Stewart made the decision for 2014 when he opted to not enroll in Jan. Had he wanted to start he would have been there for Spring drills.
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - Chipdip2 - 08-31-2014 07:23 PM
(08-31-2014 06:09 PM)chipfan Wrote: FWIW, I think Stewart made the decision for 2014 when he opted to not enroll in Jan. Had he wanted to start he would have been there for Spring drills.
His dad played D1 baseball. He probably knows the routine for most incoming freshmen and probably schooled Chance on the process. I don't think the kid came in thinking the job would be handed to him.
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - gobaseline - 09-01-2014 10:24 AM
(08-31-2014 05:39 PM)Cant make this sh t up Wrote: If I am CS watching this game I am thinking red shirt me please, cause I WILL be the starter next year once I learn this system.
That would be good. Better yet if it translates into production.
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - Cant make this sh t up - 09-01-2014 10:29 AM
(08-31-2014 07:23 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:(08-31-2014 06:09 PM)chipfan Wrote: FWIW, I think Stewart made the decision for 2014 when he opted to not enroll in Jan. Had he wanted to start he would have been there for Spring drills.
His dad played D1 baseball. He probably knows the routine for most incoming freshmen and probably schooled Chance on the process. I don't think the kid came in thinking the job would be handed to him.
CS wanted to play basketball this winter...you know he was an ALL STATER
We are going to have the same problem with Jonny Wassink because he is a basketball player also, some say he is talented enough to play basketball at a MAC school.
Would be a good Thread some day, "Leave early or Enjoy your HS careers"
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - gobaseline - 09-01-2014 11:35 AM
(09-01-2014 10:29 AM)Cant make this sh t up Wrote:(08-31-2014 07:23 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:(08-31-2014 06:09 PM)chipfan Wrote: FWIW, I think Stewart made the decision for 2014 when he opted to not enroll in Jan. Had he wanted to start he would have been there for Spring drills.
His dad played D1 baseball. He probably knows the routine for most incoming freshmen and probably schooled Chance on the process. I don't think the kid came in thinking the job would be handed to him.
CS wanted to play basketball this winter...you know he was an ALL STATER
We are going to have the same problem with Jonny Wassink because he is a basketball player also, some say he is talented enough to play basketball at a MAC school.
Would be a good Thread some day, "Leave early or Enjoy your HS careers"
Be a kid and enjoy. There is plenty of time to enter the pressure cooker of adulthood.
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - Hiller4Hyz09 - 09-01-2014 05:12 PM
(08-31-2014 07:23 PM)Chipdip2 Wrote:(08-31-2014 06:09 PM)chipfan Wrote: FWIW, I think Stewart made the decision for 2014 when he opted to not enroll in Jan. Had he wanted to start he would have been there for Spring drills.
His dad played D1 baseball. He probably knows the routine for most incoming freshmen and probably schooled Chance on the process.
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - cawoo22 - 09-03-2014 12:37 PM
QB is an enormously difficult position to learn to play at the college level. In 2007, when NIU was 2-10, we had guys on the board screaming to burn Chandler Harnish's redshirt to "see what he's got" or "get him experience".
Harnish started the season in 2008 as a redshirt freshman and spent 2 years either hurt or mediocre (mostly due to making mistakes). In 2010, he didn't even start the season. I remember thinking, "I guess this is just what Harnish is. Occasionally, great, usually frustrating." DeMarcus Grady (who was the same age, and was also getting screams to burn his RS in '07) was the starter. They went back to Harnish in game 2 and he took off.
It took two years for one of the MAC's most successful QBs to get things figured out, which sounds about right when you factor in the 8 or so games he missed due to injury (18-19 year-old skinny guys don't stand up to beatings very well).
Had his redshirt been burned, he would have graduated in 2010 and never had the Vern Smith season in 2011 when he was 22. 22 year-old college football players are almost certainly going to be better than the 18 year-old version of the same guy.
Certain guys' talent just demand they play as a true freshman. Jimmie ward was that kind of guy. A QB, though, involves so much more than just the physical tools. It would take a once-in-a-generation talent to have me burn that RS on a QB (or an offensive lineman, for that matter).
RE: Redshirt Development Vs. Throw-Him-In Development - Stampede your face!! - 09-03-2014 01:09 PM
(09-03-2014 12:37 PM)cawoo22 Wrote: QB is an enormously difficult position to learn to play at the college level. In 2007, when NIU was 2-10, we had guys on the board screaming to burn Chandler Harnish's redshirt to "see what he's got" or "get him experience".
Harnish started the season in 2008 as a redshirt freshman and spent 2 years either hurt or mediocre (mostly due to making mistakes). In 2010, he didn't even start the season. I remember thinking, "I guess this is just what Harnish is. Occasionally, great, usually frustrating." DeMarcus Grady (who was the same age, and was also getting screams to burn his RS in '07) was the starter. They went back to Harnish in game 2 and he took off.
It took two years for one of the MAC's most successful QBs to get things figured out, which sounds about right when you factor in the 8 or so games he missed due to injury (18-19 year-old skinny guys don't stand up to beatings very well).
Had his redshirt been burned, he would have graduated in 2010 and never had the Vern Smith season in 2011 when he was 22. 22 year-old college football players are almost certainly going to be better than the 18 year-old version of the same guy.
Certain guys' talent just demand they play as a true freshman. Jimmie ward was that kind of guy. A QB, though, involves so much more than just the physical tools. It would take a once-in-a-generation talent to have me burn that RS on a QB (or an offensive lineman, for that matter).
Agree with pretty much everything said here. Including the offensive lineman comment. I don't like that it appears we are burning the RS season on Okarafor, but concede that it might be a necessity to get Moton a rest here and there. Hopefully, Jon Jackson, Jackson Day, and Andrew Aurand are enough to be able to RS the other guys.