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Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - TardisCaptain - 06-11-2014 11:18 AM
Interesting comments.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11066269/big-12-ads-say-no-discussions-expansion
Had Tx/TxTech, Ok and OSU moved to the PAC, elements of the two leagues were talking about merging.
West: Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, Louisville and TCU
East: Cincinnati, UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, South Florida and Central Florida.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - SublimeKnight - 06-11-2014 11:23 AM
(06-11-2014 11:18 AM)TardisCaptain Wrote: Interesting comments.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11066269/big-12-ads-say-no-discussions-expansion
Had Tx/TxTech, Ok and OSU moved to the PAC, elements of the two leagues were talking about merging.
West: Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, Louisville and TCU
East: Cincinnati, UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, South Florida and Central Florida.
...at which point it would have been the "Power4" and the rules for determining the 4 spots in the new playoff system would have been written a lot differently.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - bullet - 06-11-2014 11:39 AM
(06-11-2014 11:23 AM)SublimeKnight Wrote:(06-11-2014 11:18 AM)TardisCaptain Wrote: Interesting comments.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11066269/big-12-ads-say-no-discussions-expansion
Had Tx/TxTech, Ok and OSU moved to the PAC, elements of the two leagues were talking about merging.
West: Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, Louisville and TCU
East: Cincinnati, UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, South Florida and Central Florida.
...at which point it would have been the "Power4" and the rules for determining the 4 spots in the new playoff system would have been written a lot differently.
Not sure about that. Big East may have stayed as Power 4.5 as they were in the BCS 5.5 since Miami left. It would have been interesting to see the playoff negotiations.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - BoiseStateOfMind - 06-11-2014 11:48 AM
Conferences playing the denial game about realignment doesn't mean much. I remember the PAC-10 swearing up and down that they weren't interested in expansion and specifically weren't looking at Utah because "there aren't enough TV sets." A couple years later, Utah moved up into the new PAC-12.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - bullet - 06-11-2014 11:51 AM
If that had happened, the MWC would probably look about the same, the MAC would have Temple and UMass and the WAC would still be dead.
CUSA probably would have just replaced UCF with Louisiana Tech. The Sun Belt would have remained pretty much like it was and added NMSU and Idaho to get to 12.
UMass and USA would have found homes, but UTSA, Texas St., ODU, Charlotte, Georgia St., Georgia Southern and Appalachian St. may not have. Maybe 1 or more of the first 4 get into the Sun Belt and NMSU and Idaho are homeless.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - Tbringer - 06-11-2014 11:55 AM
Things might have been very different if that conference had come to pass. ND for one may have remained involved along with the BE bb schools.
Revenue wise they probably could have kept up with the ACC at least.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - jrj84105 - 06-11-2014 11:57 AM
(06-11-2014 11:18 AM)TardisCaptain Wrote: Interesting comments.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11066269/big-12-ads-say-no-discussions-expansion
Had Tx/TxTech, Ok and OSU moved to the PAC, elements of the two leagues were talking about merging.
West: Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, Louisville and TCU
East: Cincinnati, UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, South Florida and Central Florida.
That conference would have probably eventually pulled in the better MWC teams in Boise, BYU, and two of SDSU/Houston/CSU/UNM/UNLV/AFA/Navy/Fresno.
West: BYU, Boise, AFA (football only), Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, and TCU
East: Louisville, NAVY (football only) Cincinnati, UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, South Florida and Central Florida.
Had that happened the BigEast/BigXII merged conference would be much closer to a P5 conference than to the remaining MWC/CUSA/SunBelt/MAC Go4. It might have preserved the BCS status quo rather than pushing to a 4 team P4 playoff.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - HartfordHusky - 06-11-2014 12:00 PM
Would have been great from the UConn, Cinci, USF, and UCF perspective, that is for sure.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - vandiver49 - 06-11-2014 12:32 PM
(06-11-2014 11:23 AM)SublimeKnight Wrote:(06-11-2014 11:18 AM)TardisCaptain Wrote: Interesting comments.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11066269/big-12-ads-say-no-discussions-expansion
Had Tx/TxTech, Ok and OSU moved to the PAC, elements of the two leagues were talking about merging.
West: Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, Louisville and TCU
East: Cincinnati, UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, South Florida and Central Florida.
...at which point it would have been the "Power4" and the rules for determining the 4 spots in the new playoff system would have been written a lot differently.
Agreed. The only way this conference is viable is if the BCS remains in tact.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - SublimeKnight - 06-11-2014 12:39 PM
(06-11-2014 12:00 PM)HartfordHusky Wrote: Would have been great from the UConn, Cinci, USF, and UCF perspective, that is for sure.
It would have been better than what happened, but I still think they'd all be one step removed from a "Power" conference.
You might say UConn, Cinci, USF would have held their position from the BE days. UCF definitely improved from CUSA, but the left over Big12s would be in a much worse position than before.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - HartfordHusky - 06-11-2014 01:24 PM
(06-11-2014 12:39 PM)SublimeKnight Wrote:(06-11-2014 12:00 PM)HartfordHusky Wrote: Would have been great from the UConn, Cinci, USF, and UCF perspective, that is for sure.
It would have been better than what happened, but I still think they'd all be one step removed from a "Power" conference.
You might say UConn, Cinci, USF would have held their position from the BE days. UCF definitely improved from CUSA, but the left over Big12s would be in a much worse position than before.
Sure, losing TX and OU would have been bad for them. However, the remaining programs are all fairly name brand with strong fan bases. It would have been a merger where all of the fb members were coming from BCS leagues, except UCF. It would not have been demoted out of the power conference fold.
Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - 1845 Bear - 06-11-2014 01:32 PM
(06-11-2014 11:55 AM)Tbringer Wrote: Things might have been very different if that conference had come to pass. ND for one may have remained involved along with the BE bb schools.
Revenue wise they probably could have kept up with the ACC at least.
It probably would have merited
The original BE offer from ESPN but the ACC would probably outpace it. I don't see the hypothetical Frankenstein league getting 17mm per fb member.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - bullet - 06-11-2014 02:23 PM
(06-11-2014 01:32 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:(06-11-2014 11:55 AM)Tbringer Wrote: Things might have been very different if that conference had come to pass. ND for one may have remained involved along with the BE bb schools.
Revenue wise they probably could have kept up with the ACC at least.
It probably would have merited
The original BE offer from ESPN but the ACC would probably outpace it. I don't see the hypothetical Frankenstein league getting 17mm per fb member.
No, but they would have made more than the G5 combined.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - SMUmustangs - 06-11-2014 02:43 PM
(06-11-2014 11:18 AM)TardisCaptain Wrote: Interesting comments.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/11066269/big-12-ads-say-no-discussions-expansion
Had Tx/TxTech, Ok and OSU moved to the PAC, elements of the two leagues were talking about merging.
West: Baylor, Kansas, Kansas St, Iowa St, Louisville and TCU
East: Cincinnati, UConn, Rutgers, West Virginia, South Florida and Central Florida.
At that time, this seemed to be common knowledge in Big12 country. I remember seeing Bill Self in a TV interview confirming such at the time all of this was happening.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - ohio1317 - 06-11-2014 02:48 PM
The full dynamics would be interesting (if they even made it to the part to really consider that). That was millions in exit money, so I can't see the Big 12 simply dissolving until at least that was distributed to the remaining members. That said, it probably could have been worked out to get them the money in the settlement anyway and worse case senario you go a year or two before the merging.
Notice the alignment does not include Missouri (whom was rumored to the Big Ten at that point) in addition to Nebraska (off to the Big Ten), and the 6 the PAC-10 was pursuing then (Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Colorado). The SEC wasn't wholly in this picture yet at this point, but if Texas had decided on the PAC-10, I suspect Texas A&M would have still headed to the SEC. From there, my guess on the steps go like this:
1. The Big Ten likely goes bigger and takes Missouri in addition to Nebraska. They then settle on either Kansas, Rutgers, or an ACC school (Maryland most likely) for #14.
2. SEC takes Texas A&M and then decided between West Virginia, North Carolina State, and Virginia Tech (North Carolina and Virginia still firmly planted in the ACC).
3. PAC-10 replaces the Texas A&M invite with Kansas (if Big Ten doesn't take them) or Utah.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - Dasville - 06-11-2014 02:50 PM
I don't know about football but that would have have been one hell of a basketball conference if you add, DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, and Villanova.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - Wedge - 06-11-2014 02:55 PM
Quote:"I remember thinking: 'That's not a bad conference,'" Luck said. "And we would have kept the affiliation with the (Big East) basketball schools, because they loved the addition of Kansas. They (the Big 12 schools) also liked it. They were nervous as hell, too. We had a series of phone calls. That was sort of our best option."
Luck said he had three or four phone discussions with the Big 12 schools. Then-Big East commissioner John Marinatto was not involved in the discussions...
They were all talking about adding five new schools to the Big East and Marinatto was not in the loop.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - bullet - 06-11-2014 03:00 PM
(06-11-2014 02:48 PM)ohio1317 Wrote: The full dynamics would be interesting (if they even made it to the part to really consider that). That was millions in exit money, so I can't see the Big 12 simply dissolving until at least that was distributed to the remaining members. That said, it probably could have been worked out to get them the money in the settlement anyway and worse case senario you go a year or two before the merging.
Notice the alignment does not include Missouri (whom was rumored to the Big Ten at that point) in addition to Nebraska (off to the Big Ten), and the 6 the PAC-10 was pursuing then (Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Colorado). The SEC wasn't wholly in this picture yet at this point, but if Texas had decided on the PAC-10, I suspect Texas A&M would have still headed to the SEC. From there, my guess on the steps go like this:
1. The Big Ten likely goes bigger and takes Missouri in addition to Nebraska. They then settle on either Kansas, Rutgers, or an ACC school (Maryland most likely) for #14.
2. SEC takes Texas A&M and then decided between West Virginia, North Carolina State, and Virginia Tech (North Carolina and Virginia still firmly planted in the ACC).
3. PAC-10 replaces the Texas A&M invite with Kansas (if Big Ten doesn't take them) or Utah.
You're confusing 2010 with 2011. NU and CU were gone. Luck was discussing 2011. A&M had announced for the SEC, OU/OSU and Tech to some extent, were talking with the Pac 12 and trying to get Texas involved. And that was when Missouri started talking to the SEC.
Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - 1845 Bear - 06-11-2014 03:03 PM
(06-11-2014 02:48 PM)ohio1317 Wrote: The full dynamics would be interesting (if they even made it to the part to really consider that). That was millions in exit money, so I can't see the Big 12 simply dissolving until at least that was distributed to the remaining members. That said, it probably could have been worked out to get them the money in the settlement anyway and worse case senario you go a year or two before the merging.
Notice the alignment does not include Missouri (whom was rumored to the Big Ten at that point) in addition to Nebraska (off to the Big Ten), and the 6 the PAC-10 was pursuing then (Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Colorado). The SEC wasn't wholly in this picture yet at this point, but if Texas had decided on the PAC-10, I suspect Texas A&M would have still headed to the SEC. From there, my guess on the steps go like this:
1. The Big Ten likely goes bigger and takes Missouri in addition to Nebraska. They then settle on either Kansas, Rutgers, or an ACC school (Maryland most likely) for #14.
2. SEC takes Texas A&M and then decided between West Virginia, North Carolina State, and Virginia Tech (North Carolina and Virginia still firmly planted in the ACC).
3. PAC-10 replaces the Texas A&M invite with Kansas (if Big Ten doesn't take them) or Utah.
Wrong year. This article references 2011, not 2010. Utah, CU, as NU already moved by then.
RE: Big 12 not discussing expansion now, but almost merged with Big East in 2011 - Wedge - 06-11-2014 03:13 PM
(06-11-2014 03:03 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:(06-11-2014 02:48 PM)ohio1317 Wrote: The full dynamics would be interesting (if they even made it to the part to really consider that). That was millions in exit money, so I can't see the Big 12 simply dissolving until at least that was distributed to the remaining members. That said, it probably could have been worked out to get them the money in the settlement anyway and worse case senario you go a year or two before the merging.
Notice the alignment does not include Missouri (whom was rumored to the Big Ten at that point) in addition to Nebraska (off to the Big Ten), and the 6 the PAC-10 was pursuing then (Texas, Texas A&M, Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Colorado). The SEC wasn't wholly in this picture yet at this point, but if Texas had decided on the PAC-10, I suspect Texas A&M would have still headed to the SEC. From there, my guess on the steps go like this:
1. The Big Ten likely goes bigger and takes Missouri in addition to Nebraska. They then settle on either Kansas, Rutgers, or an ACC school (Maryland most likely) for #14.
2. SEC takes Texas A&M and then decided between West Virginia, North Carolina State, and Virginia Tech (North Carolina and Virginia still firmly planted in the ACC).
3. PAC-10 replaces the Texas A&M invite with Kansas (if Big Ten doesn't take them) or Utah.
Wrong year. This article references 2011, not 2010. Utah, CU, as NU already moved by then.
Right, but since this is all hypothetical you could look at it from the 2010 perspective as well.
(3) is correct. The Pac-10 CEOs in 2010 authorized Scott in advance to invite either Kansas or Utah in the event UT said yes and TAMU said no.
(1) is possible given that (as confirmed by Ohio State's AD and president) the Big Ten CEOs, in 2010, discussed adding Nebraska, Kansas, and Missouri all at once, before deciding to invite only Nebraska.
If (1) and (3) both happened, who knows what the SEC would have done in addition to adding TAMU. If they watched the Pac become a 16-team league and the Big Ten become a 14-team league, IMO the SEC would have gone all out to pressure North Carolina into joining. The easiest way to do that, if the SEC could convince its own CEOs to go along, would have been to invite Florida State and then tell UNC that this was their last chance to get on board before the SEC added other ACC schools and then stopped at 16.