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SD bans traffic cameras - john01992 - 04-02-2014 12:04 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/01/angry-motorists-prompt-nationwide-camera-backlash/
i have wanted these things to get banned for a long time. Not only do they raise questions about due process, but i have personally seen two examples of people getting these tickets without a valid reason.
two different examples:
I had a friend who got a ticket for running a red light. he was doing a right on red and the picture proof box was a shot of the car in the middle of the turn.
another guy i knew got a ticket at night and the same proof box on his ticket was solid black and you couldn't even tell if it was his car.
they shouldn't even be allowed to mail a ticket like that. it's like no one checks them before they get mailed out just to make sure it's legit. it's like there's no legal oversight at all while allowing a company to fine citizens and issue the charges themselves. while it is a trivial matter in the thick of things, the practice amounts to a major constitutional violation IMO.
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - DrTorch - 04-02-2014 08:04 AM
While I partially agree w/ johnny zero, I think the bigger issue is being ignored: traffic lights, traffic management is for the citizens. Instead, it is being treated as a revenue source for local bureaucrats, who now have an incentive counter to doing their job well (smooth traffic flow). This is a proven fact, as municipalities have tweaked their yellow light durations so they would be shorter, generating more violations.
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - john01992 - 04-02-2014 10:30 AM
(04-02-2014 08:04 AM)DrTorch Wrote: While I partially agree w/ johnny zero, I think the bigger issue is being ignored: traffic lights, traffic management is for the citizens. Instead, it is being treated as a revenue source for local bureaucrats, who now have an incentive counter to doing their job well (smooth traffic flow). This is a proven fact, as municipalities have tweaked their yellow light durations so they would be shorter, generating more violations.
agreed. there is no way a police department should ever be allowed to implement or even encourage their officers to reach a certain quota for finable offenses
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - smn1256 - 04-02-2014 11:42 AM
(04-02-2014 12:04 AM)john01992 Wrote: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/01/angry-motorists-prompt-nationwide-camera-backlash/
i have wanted these things to get banned for a long time. Not only do they raise questions about due process, but i have personally seen two examples of people getting these tickets without a valid reason.
two different examples:
I had a friend who got a ticket for running a red light. he was doing a right on red and the picture proof box was a shot of the car in the middle of the turn.
another guy i knew got a ticket at night and the same proof box on his ticket was solid black and you couldn't even tell if it was his car.
they shouldn't even be allowed to mail a ticket like that. it's like no one checks them before they get mailed out just to make sure it's legit. it's like there's no legal oversight at all while allowing a company to fine citizens and issue the charges themselves. while it is a trivial matter in the thick of things, the practice amounts to a major constitutional violation IMO.
What are you doing on Fox News?
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - john01992 - 04-02-2014 11:46 AM
(04-02-2014 11:42 AM)smn1256 Wrote:(04-02-2014 12:04 AM)john01992 Wrote: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/01/angry-motorists-prompt-nationwide-camera-backlash/
i have wanted these things to get banned for a long time. Not only do they raise questions about due process, but i have personally seen two examples of people getting these tickets without a valid reason.
two different examples:
I had a friend who got a ticket for running a red light. he was doing a right on red and the picture proof box was a shot of the car in the middle of the turn.
another guy i knew got a ticket at night and the same proof box on his ticket was solid black and you couldn't even tell if it was his car.
they shouldn't even be allowed to mail a ticket like that. it's like no one checks them before they get mailed out just to make sure it's legit. it's like there's no legal oversight at all while allowing a company to fine citizens and issue the charges themselves. while it is a trivial matter in the thick of things, the practice amounts to a major constitutional violation IMO.
What are you doing on Fox News?
Reading the news........
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - oklalittledixie - 04-02-2014 11:50 AM
I lived in PHX when they were doing testing of those cameras on the freeways. They since canceled the program. What most people don't realize is that federal law states that a summons must be hand delivered. Therefore, a camera cannot issue you a ticket. You may receive a ticket in the mail, but you are not required by law to respond or pay it.
These cameras are nothing more than a deterrent.
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - SuperFlyBCat - 04-02-2014 11:51 AM
(04-02-2014 10:30 AM)john01992 Wrote:http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/02/bill_to_ban_traffic_cameras_st.html(04-02-2014 08:04 AM)DrTorch Wrote: While I partially agree w/ johnny zero, I think the bigger issue is being ignored: traffic lights, traffic management is for the citizens. Instead, it is being treated as a revenue source for local bureaucrats, who now have an incentive counter to doing their job well (smooth traffic flow). This is a proven fact, as municipalities have tweaked their yellow light durations so they would be shorter, generating more violations.
agreed. there is no way a police department should ever be allowed to implement or even encourage their officers to reach a certain quota for finable offenses
Here in cincinnati,
Elmwood Place: Judge orders village to repay $1.8 million from speed camera tickets
CINCINNATI – Elmwood Place would have to repay nearly $1.8 million it collected from speeding tickets generated by its illegal traffic cameras if a judge’s ruling sticks.
Hamilton County Common Pleas Judge Robert Ruehlman, who called the speed cameras a scam, said the village can wait until its appeal of class-action status is resolved. Ruehlman said he would not enter a final judgment until then.
The final judgment would cover as many as 10,000 drivers who paid the $105 tickets and fees in 2012 and 2013. Some drivers got and paid more than one ticket.
Attorney Mike Allen sued the village last year for $1,760,859.18 – the total revenue from the speed camera program. The village must also pay Allen's attorney fees because the village acted in bad faith, Ruehlman ruled.
“It’s the first time to my knowledge that a court in this country has awarded victims of a speed camera program a financial settlement,” Allen said. “We’re happy about that. We hope it sets a precedent.”
Allen suggested this might be a good time for Elmwood Place, a small village of 2,200, to settle out of court and avoid more lawyer's costs and lengthy appeals.
http://www.wcpo.com/news/local-news/hamilton-county/elmwood-place/elmwood-place-fight-against-traffic-cameras-here-and-throughout-ohio-far-from-over-
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - gdunn - 04-02-2014 12:06 PM
I didn't think you could turn right on red in NY or NJ unless a sign stated you could.
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - All Dukes_All Day - 04-02-2014 12:08 PM
(04-02-2014 11:50 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote: I lived in PHX when they were doing testing of those cameras on the freeways. They since canceled the program. What most people don't realize is that federal law states that a summons must be hand delivered. Therefore, a camera cannot issue you a ticket. You may receive a ticket in the mail, but you are not required by law to respond or pay it.
These cameras are nothing more than a deterrent.
While that is true in theory, municipalities have found was to work around it. Here in the People's Republic of Maryland, they'll put a hold on your Drivers License and you will not be allowed to renew your DL if you have over a certain amount in fines. It's a shakedown of all shakedowns courtesy of Martin O'Malley.
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - oklalittledixie - 04-02-2014 12:11 PM
(04-02-2014 12:08 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:(04-02-2014 11:50 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote: I lived in PHX when they were doing testing of those cameras on the freeways. They since canceled the program. What most people don't realize is that federal law states that a summons must be hand delivered. Therefore, a camera cannot issue you a ticket. You may receive a ticket in the mail, but you are not required by law to respond or pay it.
These cameras are nothing more than a deterrent.
While that is true in theory, municipalities have found was to work around it. Here in the People's Republic of Maryland, they'll put a hold on your Drivers License and you will not be allowed to renew your DL if you have over a certain amount in fines. It's a shakedown of all shakedowns courtesy of Martin O'Malley.
I believe that violates federal law. You might want to research how Maryland gets around that.
Here's what people in AZ did.
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - john01992 - 04-02-2014 12:21 PM
(04-02-2014 12:06 PM)gdunn Wrote: I didn't think you could turn right on red in NY or NJ unless a sign stated you could.
for upstate NY that is not true. not sure about NYC or NJ
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - gdunn - 04-02-2014 12:27 PM
(04-02-2014 12:21 PM)john01992 Wrote:Last time I was in the Staten Island/Bayonne/Hoboken/Newark/ area you had to have a sign saying to turn right on red. That was 2006. I had a certificate from an uniformed officer stating that.(04-02-2014 12:06 PM)gdunn Wrote: I didn't think you could turn right on red in NY or NJ unless a sign stated you could.
for upstate NY that is not true. not sure about NYC or NJ
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - john01992 - 04-02-2014 12:31 PM
(04-02-2014 12:27 PM)gdunn Wrote:(04-02-2014 12:21 PM)john01992 Wrote:Last time I was in the Staten Island/Bayonne/Hoboken/Newark/ area you had to have a sign saying to turn right on red. That was 2006. I had a certificate from an uniformed officer stating that.(04-02-2014 12:06 PM)gdunn Wrote: I didn't think you could turn right on red in NY or NJ unless a sign stated you could.
for upstate NY that is not true. not sure about NYC or NJ
that is really bizarre.
in upstate NY it is the complete opposite. they will have a sign saying NO TURN ON RED
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - gdunn - 04-02-2014 12:35 PM
No that's NY.. I got a letter in 2007 stating I had overpaid the State of NY by $400 in the last tax year, but due to the economic hardships in the State, City of NY and it's Burrows, I would never be able to recover that $400.
They were right.
However, if it was the other way around, I'd had the hounds released.
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - VA49er - 04-02-2014 01:39 PM
You can turn left on red onto a one way street here in VA. Took me forever to figure out why all those folks were honking at me when I first moved to VA.
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - ODUgradstudent - 04-02-2014 01:55 PM
(04-02-2014 12:21 PM)john01992 Wrote:(04-02-2014 12:06 PM)gdunn Wrote: I didn't think you could turn right on red in NY or NJ unless a sign stated you could.
for upstate NY that is not true. not sure about NYC or NJ
In Westchester (not sure about NYC or the rest of NY) you can't turn right on a red unless a sign says you can.
In NJ you can turn right on red AFAIK.
RE: SD bans traffic cameras - DrTorch - 04-02-2014 03:08 PM
(04-02-2014 12:11 PM)oklalittledixie Wrote:(04-02-2014 12:08 PM)All Dukes_All Day Wrote:(04-02-2014 11:50 AM)oklalittledixie Wrote: I lived in PHX when they were doing testing of those cameras on the freeways. They since canceled the program. What most people don't realize is that federal law states that a summons must be hand delivered. Therefore, a camera cannot issue you a ticket. You may receive a ticket in the mail, but you are not required by law to respond or pay it.
These cameras are nothing more than a deterrent.
While that is true in theory, municipalities have found was to work around it. Here in the People's Republic of Maryland, they'll put a hold on your Drivers License and you will not be allowed to renew your DL if you have over a certain amount in fines. It's a shakedown of all shakedowns courtesy of Martin O'Malley.
I believe that violates federal law. You might want to research how Maryland gets around that.
Here's what people in AZ did.
When I was in grad school, I lived right there. (Obviously before they installed cameras, or that would have been me.)