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+---- Thread: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? (/thread-684431.html)
Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - Bull_In_Exile - 03-31-2014 10:02 AM
http://www.ubbullrun.com/2014/3/31/5561612/northwestern-football-and-net-gain
Schools like Northwestern that have a lot of support for poor students sometimes "compensate" players with an educaiton which breaks down to less than 4$ an hour..
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - mturn017 - 03-31-2014 10:21 AM
The value of a NW degree doesn't decrease because the players could have received financial aid otherwise. They play football and receive a full ride so what you're saying is for 5,225 hours of football participation they receive a degree worth $18,144. That's BS.
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - MWC Tex - 03-31-2014 10:37 AM
In short yes, because in real money terms it is $46/hr. Which is much more than I currently make.
I don't think their math adds up. There are a lot of assumptions and showing for a regular student is different than an athletic scholarship. The author makes the assumption that the 2 are equal when they really are not.
http://undergradaid.northwestern.edu/docs/Pledge.pdf
An athlete probably could not qualify the terms of meeting the requirements for the Pledge scholarship.
But then, everything falls apart when they are employees and not students....leaving them out of a lot of other financial aid.
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - TexanMark - 03-31-2014 10:41 AM
The value of a Northwestern Degree is worth about $250k if you were a cash paying student. You need to keep it apples to apples. Frankly most of the low income students wouldn't even get accepted into Northwestern except they play football.
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - HawaiiMongoose - 03-31-2014 11:00 AM
The value of a college education is not what you pay for it. The value is the increase to your lifetime earnings that you receive from having a college education, less the amount you pay for it.
Obviously this varies from school to school but various studies have shown the amount is between half a million and a million dollars (net present value) for most universities.
For a scholarship athlete who doesn't pay tuition, room or board, the value is greater because the benefit is received without the offsetting expense, assuming of course that he or she finishes school and gets a degree.
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - arkstfan - 03-31-2014 11:11 AM
The average college degree means on average an increase of lifetime earnings of $900,000.
Leaving school with less debt than peers and the reality that having played intercollegiate athletics, even unpopular fan sports like golf, tennis and track, will open some doors that peers will not have opened. One of my son's friends played college football and was on scholarship for only one season but it opened the door for his first two high school coaching jobs and I know an HR manager who was sorting through applicants who were mostly new college grads and one applicant had played college golf and he pushed that person into the interview pile for the hiring manager and the former player got the job.
Maybe the system isn't as balanced and fair as it could be but it is much better for student-athletes than their advocates are claiming.
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - Bull_In_Exile - 03-31-2014 11:54 AM
(03-31-2014 10:41 AM)TexanMark Wrote: The value of a Northwestern Degree is worth about $250k if you were a cash paying student. You need to keep it apples to apples. Frankly most of the low income students wouldn't even get accepted into Northwestern except they play football.
The whole point of the article was that, specifically at Northwestern, if you are a poor cash paying student the cost is 18K not 250,000..
FWIW I am not on the pay for play side of things but the Author of this piece always does his research and used to work for an AD...
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - ken d - 03-31-2014 01:03 PM
(03-31-2014 11:11 AM)arkstfan Wrote: The average college degree means on average an increase of lifetime earnings of $900,000.
Leaving school with less debt than peers and the reality that having played intercollegiate athletics, even unpopular fan sports like golf, tennis and track, will open some doors that peers will not have opened. One of my son's friends played college football and was on scholarship for only one season but it opened the door for his first two high school coaching jobs and I know an HR manager who was sorting through applicants who were mostly new college grads and one applicant had played college golf and he pushed that person into the interview pile for the hiring manager and the former player got the job.
Maybe the system isn't as balanced and fair as it could be but it is much better for student-athletes than their advocates are claiming.
I'm not sure that's true anymore.
But as for the original premise, it doesn't make sense to calculate what rate a football player is earning by dividing the cost of his scholarship by the number of hours he puts in. You should be using the value of the scholarship. That means different things to different athletes, and also different schools.
The room and board portion of the scholarship is pretty objective, and is valid enough. But the tuition only has value to the athlete who wants it. If, instead of tuition, athletes were paid in bubble gum, or tulips, that cost $40,000 you wouldn't assume that $40K was the value of his compensation. For the kid who is only in school because the NFL says that's his only option, he's working for peanuts.
There may be few of those kids at schools like Northwestern, Duke, Stanford, etc., so any analysis limited to one of those schools is of little value in the broader scheme of college sports.
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - TodgeRodge - 03-31-2014 01:07 PM
a very large % of these "get paid" types would not even qualify for a minimum wage job much less college admissions if they did not play football
hopefully after all of this many of them will enjoy their minimum wage job and their earlier trip to getting their jail career started VS wasting space and air on a college campus
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - BruceMcF - 03-31-2014 01:22 PM
(03-31-2014 11:00 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote: The value of a college education is not what you pay for it. The value is the increase to your lifetime earnings that you receive from having a college education, less the amount you pay for it.Yes, the accounting for being paid in kind is the dollar price of the benefit received, but if someone voluntarily agrees to being paid in kind, its normally because they value it at above its price, and/or its something with some kind of rationing where you can't just plop down your money and have it.
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - Chappy - 03-31-2014 02:11 PM
(03-31-2014 01:07 PM)TodgeRodge Wrote: a very large % of these "get paid" types would not even qualify for a minimum wage job much less college admissions if they did not play football
hopefully after all of this many of them will enjoy their minimum wage job and their earlier trip to getting their jail career started VS wasting space and air on a college campus
Wow.
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - Captain Bearcat - 04-01-2014 01:09 PM
Re: OP
Yes, I would pay $3.47/hour to play football. Actually, I pay more than that to play softball because my teammates are cheap. I was lucky when I was in high school that my school only charged a $50 participation fee to play football, but that was because some people, for whatever reason, would actually pay to watch me play a game I love.
Oh wait, you mean some people GET PAID $3.47/hour to play football? They get a great college degree without any student loans? Hell yeah I'd do that.
This isn't the pros, folks. If players are looking to get paid and don't care about college, there's plenty of opportunities in the CFL or arena league for people who want to go that route.
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - blunderbuss - 04-01-2014 01:24 PM
(03-31-2014 11:00 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote: The value of a college education is not what you pay for it. The value is the increase to your lifetime earnings that you receive from having a college education, less the amount you pay for it.
THIS.
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - arkstfan - 04-01-2014 01:55 PM
There are 26 schools where you can pay your way play club football that I've found and five are at FBS schools that's in addition to the nearly 240 non-scholarship schools playing football. So it is possible some people would play for nothing.
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - nzmorange - 04-01-2014 02:07 PM
(03-31-2014 10:02 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote: http://www.ubbullrun.com/2014/3/31/5561612/northwestern-football-and-net-gain
Schools like Northwestern that have a lot of support for poor students sometimes "compensate" players with an educaiton which breaks down to less than 4$ an hour..
Tuition at NW is $15,040/quarter and I presume that there are 3 quarters in a school year (the 4th is summer). That's $45k/yr in tuition alone. Throw in books, food, and housing and the total cost is bound to be well over $60k/yr.
60 hrs a week for 9 months equates to ((40+(20*1.5))*52)*.75=2,730 billable hours. $60k/2,730hours=$21.98/hour.
$22/hour isn't bad for kids 18-22 with no degree. I wish I made that when I was in college.
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - Wedge - 04-01-2014 02:28 PM
(04-01-2014 01:55 PM)arkstfan Wrote: There are 26 schools where you can pay your way play club football that I've found and five are at FBS schools that's in addition to the nearly 240 non-scholarship schools playing football. So it is possible some people would play for nothing.
Walk-ons play for nothing. They can't even eat for free at the athletic training table, if they play football or another sport that has one. They have to pay. There are stories of walk-ons asking teammates who have scholarships to take extra food out of the cafeteria for them.
But, obviously none of the elite programs are going to make all of their players walk-ons.
(04-01-2014 02:07 PM)nzmorange Wrote: 60 hrs a week for 9 months equates to ((40+(20*1.5))*52)*.75=2,730 billable hours. $60k/2,730hours=$21.98/hour.
$22/hour isn't bad for kids 18-22 with no degree. I wish I made that when I was in college.
That's because you went to college for the purpose of getting a degree.
For the athletes who aren't working toward a degree and are just taking classes to stay eligible, the free tuition is of no value to them. It's like giving a non-transferable gift card for $50,000 worth of steaks to someone who is vegan.
RE: Would You Play Football for $3.47/hr? - nzmorange - 04-01-2014 03:07 PM
(04-01-2014 02:28 PM)Wedge Wrote:(04-01-2014 01:55 PM)arkstfan Wrote: There are 26 schools where you can pay your way play club football that I've found and five are at FBS schools that's in addition to the nearly 240 non-scholarship schools playing football. So it is possible some people would play for nothing.
Walk-ons play for nothing. They can't even eat for free at the athletic training table, if they play football or another sport that has one. They have to pay. There are stories of walk-ons asking teammates who have scholarships to take extra food out of the cafeteria for them.
But, obviously none of the elite programs are going to make all of their players walk-ons.
(04-01-2014 02:07 PM)nzmorange Wrote: 60 hrs a week for 9 months equates to ((40+(20*1.5))*52)*.75=2,730 billable hours. $60k/2,730hours=$21.98/hour.
$22/hour isn't bad for kids 18-22 with no degree. I wish I made that when I was in college.
That's because you went to college for the purpose of getting a degree.
For the athletes who aren't working toward a degree and are just taking classes to stay eligible, the free tuition is of no value to them. It's like giving a non-transferable gift card for $50,000 worth of steaks to someone who is vegan.
Tell that to your average football player the day after the draft and/or the day after their first serious injury. Actually, not making the pros and sustaining injuries aside, the average NFL player only lasts something like 3 years. That leaves a lot of life that they have to live without a meaningful football salary. If they don't value their degree, they should. It's like a vegan getting a transferable gift certificate for steaks that's worth $50. Whether or not they use the gift certificate in its intended capacity, its worth $50.