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Great Lakes frozen over - DrTorch - 01-23-2014 11:30 AM
Around 2nd highest since record keeping
![[Image: 20140120180000_CVCHDCTGL_0007477171.gif]](http://ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/prods/CVCHDCTGL/20140120180000_CVCHDCTGL_0007477171.gif)
Likely the bar will continue to rise w/ the current extreme cold weather.
I like this chart even better.
![[Image: 20140120180000_CVCSWCTGL_0007477170.gif]](http://ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/prods/CVCSWCTGL/20140120180000_CVCSWCTGL_0007477170.gif)
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - Motown Bronco - 01-23-2014 12:08 PM
I should start by saying that I'm not making any pro- or anti-climate change argument here since I'm only talking about a handful of years for sample.
But the jet stream has been more amplified lately (meaning the past few winters) and not only ushered in more unusual weather, but "locked it in" for longer periods of time.
In 2011-2012 it was the complete opposite in the northern hemisphere. The US and Canada basked in a warm "non-winter" (80s in March
) while Alaska, Russia and Eastern Europe took a trip through the planet Hoth. Last year, jet streams were pretty out of whack too, and especially so this year but with us getting the ice box. One theory posits that a milder Arctic and more open water makes the polar vortex, which is usually spinning in near the pole, to weaken, become wobbly and spin down one or more of the continents spilling its frigid contents. Sort of like when a spinning top loses its steam. This actually sounds reasonable - but I'd heard what really sent the vortex down was an unsually strong high pressure system over the eastern Pacific that sent strong southerly winds way up north and dislodged it. So if the originator was the Eastern Pacific jet, then maybe it's not the Arctic? Chicken and egg scenario.
Or, it's just a period of particularly rough weather. Like in 1994, 1984 and much of the late 1970s.
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - DrTorch - 01-23-2014 12:13 PM
(01-23-2014 12:08 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote: but I'd heard what really sent the vortex down was an unsually strong high pressure system over the eastern Pacific that sent strong southerly winds way up north and dislodged it.
Lots of talk that 2014 will be an El Nino year. Not sure if what you describe is an omen or not.
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - MileHighBronco - 01-23-2014 02:06 PM
(01-23-2014 12:13 PM)DrTorch Wrote:(01-23-2014 12:08 PM)Motown Bronco Wrote: but I'd heard what really sent the vortex down was an unsually strong high pressure system over the eastern Pacific that sent strong southerly winds way up north and dislodged it.
Lots of talk that 2014 will be an El Nino year. Not sure if what you describe is an omen or not.
Been hearing that, too, Torch. Hoping it is correct, as we are having a belong normal snow year and rely on snow for our water supply. Predictions say we may have a very wet spring and we need it here in CO.
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - SumOfAllFears - 01-23-2014 06:53 PM
California is turning to a dry desert, as it should. Wildfires will be a burnni.
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - 49RFootballNow - 01-23-2014 06:55 PM
Don't you fools understand????? It's the global warming causing the lakes to freeze!!!!!
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - oklalittledixie - 01-23-2014 07:18 PM
(01-23-2014 06:55 PM)49RFootballNow Wrote: Don't you fools understand????? It's the global warming causing the lakes to freeze!!!!!
I don't remember a winter this cold in a long time. It is cold as balls outside. Just walking to my truck after work almost froze me to death.
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - UCF08 - 01-23-2014 09:37 PM
Do we really need to go over how one winter does not make a trend? Hell, the strongest argument against AGW is the relatively short period of time we have completely reliable data on worldwide temperature and atmospheric CO2 to judge a slow trend that often has entire decades of outlying weather patterns. Now we're going to dumb it down to one cold winter?
That doesn't even begin to touch the fact according to AGW experts, as weather patterns change, outliers like this on both end are *supposed* to happen more often.
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - dmacfour - 01-23-2014 10:05 PM
(01-23-2014 09:37 PM)UCF08 Wrote: Do we really need to go over how one winter does not make a trend? Hell, the strongest argument against AGW is the relatively short period of time we have completely reliable data on worldwide temperature and atmospheric CO2 to judge a slow trend that often has entire decades of outlying weather patterns. Now we're going to dumb it down to one cold winter?
That doesn't even begin to touch the fact according to AGW experts, as weather patterns change, outliers like this on both end are *supposed* to happen more often.
I wouldn't bother. Many of the "skeptics" on this site are actually the opposite. They're 100% convinced that their position is right.
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - georgia_tech_swagger - 01-23-2014 10:22 PM
It is all about the jet stream, as Motown mentioned. Unusually, it is digging in deep on the eastern seaboard without causing much of a gulf flow. Usually when it dips like this is sucks up moisture out of the Gulf and dumps it as wintery weather in the deep south from Alabama through Virginia.
For the last several weeks the GFS long range has been trying to pull moisture up and out but it never materializes.
http://www.twisterdata.com/index.php?prog=forecast&model=GFS&grid=3&model_yyyy=2014&model_mm=01&model_dd=23&model_init_hh=18&fhour=192¶meter=SNOWIN&level=SURFACE&unit=none&maximize=n&mode=singlemap&sounding=n&output=image&view=large&archive=false
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - DrTorch - 01-24-2014 07:58 AM
(01-23-2014 10:05 PM)dmacfour Wrote:(01-23-2014 09:37 PM)UCF08 Wrote: Do we really need to go over how one winter does not make a trend? Hell, the strongest argument against AGW is the relatively short period of time we have completely reliable data on worldwide temperature and atmospheric CO2 to judge a slow trend that often has entire decades of outlying weather patterns. Now we're going to dumb it down to one cold winter?
That doesn't even begin to touch the fact according to AGW experts, as weather patterns change, outliers like this on both end are *supposed* to happen more often.
I wouldn't bother. Many of the "skeptics" on this site are actually the opposite. They're 100% convinced that their position is right.
Oh, I do hope the both of you will explain the science to us.
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - Motown Bronco - 01-24-2014 08:32 AM
I wouldn't call any of this a "trend" or whatnot. But it's notable that 2 of the past 3 North American winters have been freak shows.
The 2011-12 winter was the warmest I've ever experienced. This one is on track to be the coldest I've ever experienced. Our normal mid-winter high around here is roughly 30-35 and that sounds tropical compared to what we've been experiencing through much of winter.
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - 200yrs2late - 01-24-2014 09:26 AM
It's because of global warming.... You should know that by now.
Re: Great Lakes frozen over - georgia_tech_swagger - 01-24-2014 12:38 PM
It is snowing in the Florida Panhandle right now. A wintry mix all the way back from Mobile through Biloxi to New Orleans. But it isn't pulling any of the moisture up into the Carolinas like it usually does. Just weird.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - UCF08 - 01-24-2014 04:17 PM
Sounds like everything is completely normal to me, nothing to see.
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - QuestionSocratic - 01-25-2014 01:06 PM
Great news. No more lake effect. Most ice coverage in decades.
However, as usual, Lake Ontario is no where near covered, due to its depth.
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - QuestionSocratic - 01-25-2014 04:36 PM
(01-24-2014 04:17 PM)UCF08 Wrote: Sounds like everything is completely normal to me, nothing to see.
Trite comments are always clever if they are backed up by the facts. But since the ice cover hasn't been to this level in 20 years, they expose a weakness of intellectual capacity and highlight the poster's lack of grasp on reality. So sad.
RE: Great Lakes frozen over - DrTorch - 01-29-2014 03:51 PM
(01-23-2014 11:30 AM)DrTorch Wrote: Around 2nd highest since record keepingUpdates
Likely the bar will continue to rise w/ the current extreme cold weather.
![[Image: 20140127180000_CVCHDCTGL_0007489447.gif]](http://ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/prods/CVCHDCTGL/20140127180000_CVCHDCTGL_0007489447.gif)
Quote:I like this chart even better.
![[Image: 20140127180000_CVCSWCTGL_0007489450.gif]](http://ice-glaces.ec.gc.ca/prods/CVCSWCTGL/20140127180000_CVCSWCTGL_0007489450.gif)