(01-06-2014 04:44 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  It has been widely rumored/reported that BYUs refusal to play on Sunday is a major stumbling block for the B12. I don't understand that. It's not like they just made it up. It is an integral part of their religious beliefs. Other conferences have accommodated not playing on Sunday. The NCAA even accommodates teams not playing on Sunday. Is it really a big deal if 1 or 2 (#2 being the BYU opponent) teams don't play on Sunday? Is this really an issue for the B12 or is it the issue that seems to get the most publicity?

It has been rumored/reported that BYUs church affiliation would keep them from becoming a member of the PAC. BYUs affiliation has not helped them dominate the WAC or MWC. Why would it keep them out of the PAC? Honestly, I think they would be a mid-tier team in the PAC or B12. I know the PAC is mostly public schools but this seems a bit excessive.

(01-06-2014 04:44 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  It has been widely rumored/reported that BYUs refusal to play on Sunday is a major stumbling block for the B12. I don't understand that. It's not like they just made it up. It is an integral part of their religious beliefs. Other conferences have accommodated not playing on Sunday. The NCAA even accommodates teams not playing on Sunday. Is it really a big deal if 1 or 2 (#2 being the BYU opponent) teams don't play on Sunday? Is this really an issue for the B12 or is it the issue that seems to get the most publicity?

It has been rumored/reported that BYUs church affiliation would keep them from becoming a member of the PAC. BYUs affiliation has not helped them dominate the WAC or MWC. Why would it keep them out of the PAC? Honestly, I think they would be a mid-tier team in the PAC or B12. I know the PAC is mostly public schools but this seems a bit excessive.

(01-06-2014 04:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  The stories are that it was a problem for Fox. They wanted the flexibility for Sunday play in bb and non-revs.

(01-06-2014 05:37 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Not allowing Sunday play kills the Olympic scheduling. To save money and preserve the students' schedules, many teams do Friday/Sunday scheduling for away trips, playing two teams. Having a team not play along with that is another problem.

(01-06-2014 04:56 PM)BewareThePhog Wrote:  I think that after Prop 8 the PAC (and particularly, but not exclusively Cal/Berkeley) would go absolutely apesh*t over the idea of BYU becoming a member.

As for the Big 12, I think there are a number of factors at play. First and foremost is likely UT and OU trying to keep their options open - the more members, the more difficult it would be for them to disentangle themselves from the conference if an attractive option were to present itself. Second, after all the disharmony of the original Big 12, I think there's some thought of having more cohesion in the conference. BYU (as is certainly their right) will not bend their principles just for the sake of conference membership, so there's a certain level of independence that may not be seen as appealing. Third, if WVU is an island to the East, BYU is at least as much of one to the West - if the Big 12 were to expand, it would probably make sense to try to do so in either FL or OH. Finally, what I think was an intriguing if unlikely option of a football-only membership for BYU and Notre Dame (getting both national brands on the table, and increasing the affiliate membership football TV inventory more than one team's worth) is not an option with ND throwing its lot in with the ACC in the geographic areas it prefers.

(01-06-2014 07:45 PM)jrj84105 Wrote:  BYU also played on Sunday once upon a time, so it wouldn't be unprecedented to rescind the policy. The hangup is that BYU sports were sort of forced to amp up their focus on being a missionary tool for the church in order for the church to invest in the infrastructure of BYU-TV's sports broadcast apparatus. That stronger commitment to the eclesiastical mission was already underway, but I think the church's investment in the indy project was sort of a point of no return for the sports programs and their ability to operate with a little more leniency (which is how things were in the 80's when BYU was good).

(01-06-2014 04:44 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  It has been widely rumored/reported that BYUs refusal to play on Sunday is a major stumbling block for the B12. I don't understand that. It's not like they just made it up. It is an integral part of their religious beliefs. Other conferences have accommodated not playing on Sunday. The NCAA even accommodates teams not playing on Sunday. Is it really a big deal if 1 or 2 (#2 being the BYU opponent) teams don't play on Sunday? Is this really an issue for the B12 or is it the issue that seems to get the most publicity?

It has been rumored/reported that BYUs church affiliation would keep them from becoming a member of the PAC. BYUs affiliation has not helped them dominate the WAC or MWC. Why would it keep them out of the PAC? Honestly, I think they would be a mid-tier team in the PAC or B12. I know the PAC is mostly public schools but this seems a bit excessive.

(01-06-2014 06:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Wolfman - It's not the reason why BYU isn't in the Big 12. It might be a convenient excuse for both BYU and the Big 12 to explain why they aren't in the league, but if BYU was clearly going to add more money per school to the Big 12, then they would be added. The MWC offered a full suite of non-revenue sports and they even have some high revenue generating basketball programs like UNLV and SDSU. I heard a lot of complaints from MWC people about BYU on an array of issues, but Sunday play was never one of them. It's a complete red herring - a league that added a total geographic outlier like WVU can easily deal with Sunday play. The only real question is whether BYU (or maybe more importantly, the 12th team what would come with BYU) would bring enough financial heft to the table.

(01-06-2014 06:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Wolfman - It's not the reason why BYU isn't in the Big 12. It might be a convenient excuse for both BYU and the Big 12 to explain why they aren't in the league, but if BYU was clearly going to add more money per school to the Big 12, then they would be added. The MWC offered a full suite of non-revenue sports and they even have some high revenue generating basketball programs like UNLV and SDSU. I heard a lot of complaints from MWC people about BYU on an array of issues, but Sunday play was never one of them. It's a complete red herring - a league that added a total geographic outlier like WVU can easily deal with Sunday play. The only real question is whether BYU (or maybe more importantly, the 12th team what would come with BYU) would bring enough financial heft to the table.

(01-07-2014 01:21 PM)esayem Wrote:  

(01-06-2014 06:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Wolfman - It's not the reason why BYU isn't in the Big 12. It might be a convenient excuse for both BYU and the Big 12 to explain why they aren't in the league, but if BYU was clearly going to add more money per school to the Big 12, then they would be added. The MWC offered a full suite of non-revenue sports and they even have some high revenue generating basketball programs like UNLV and SDSU. I heard a lot of complaints from MWC people about BYU on an array of issues, but Sunday play was never one of them. It's a complete red herring - a league that added a total geographic outlier like WVU can easily deal with Sunday play. The only real question is whether BYU (or maybe more importantly, the 12th team what would come with BYU) would bring enough financial heft to the table.

So what's your take on the Big XII's initial replacement plan of BYU/Air Force for NU/CU? I can't imagine TCU or WVU bring any more money than BYU. Maybe now with the league at ten it doesn't make sense, but BYU seemed to be the best candidate early on.

(01-06-2014 06:36 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(01-06-2014 04:54 PM)bullet Wrote:  The stories are that it was a problem for Fox. They wanted the flexibility for Sunday play in bb and non-revs.

I thought Fox split Big 12 football with ESPN but that ESPN has basketball to themselves. Did that change? Are we going to see Big 12 hoops on FS1?

(01-06-2014 05:37 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  Not allowing Sunday play kills the Olympic scheduling. To save money and preserve the students' schedules, many teams do Friday/Sunday scheduling for away trips, playing two teams. Having a team not play along with that is another problem.

That's overrated. Many leagues, including both the Big 12 and Pac-12, no longer have lockstep Friday and Sunday scheduling for Olympic team sports and there's enough flexibility to play BYU, if they're in the conference, on a Thursday-Saturday or Friday-Saturday pairing or whatever. If the league made enough money by adding BYU, that would be no issue at all.

(01-06-2014 11:55 PM)SMUmustangs Wrote:  

(01-06-2014 04:44 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  It has been widely rumored/reported that BYUs refusal to play on Sunday is a major stumbling block for the B12. I don't understand that. It's not like they just made it up. It is an integral part of their religious beliefs. Other conferences have accommodated not playing on Sunday. The NCAA even accommodates teams not playing on Sunday. Is it really a big deal if 1 or 2 (#2 being the BYU opponent) teams don't play on Sunday? Is this really an issue for the B12 or is it the issue that seems to get the most publicity?

It has been rumored/reported that BYUs church affiliation would keep them from becoming a member of the PAC. BYUs affiliation has not helped them dominate the WAC or MWC. Why would it keep them out of the PAC? Honestly, I think they would be a mid-tier team in the PAC or B12. I know the PAC is mostly public schools but this seems a bit excessive.

(01-06-2014 06:09 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Wolfman - It's not the reason why BYU isn't in the Big 12. It might be a convenient excuse for both BYU and the Big 12 to explain why they aren't in the league, but if BYU was clearly going to add more money per school to the Big 12, then they would be added. The MWC offered a full suite of non-revenue sports and they even have some high revenue generating basketball programs like UNLV and SDSU. I heard a lot of complaints from MWC people about BYU on an array of issues, but Sunday play was never one of them. It's a complete red herring - a league that added a total geographic outlier like WVU can easily deal with Sunday play. The only real question is whether BYU (or maybe more importantly, the 12th team what would come with BYU) would bring enough financial heft to the table.

The BYU no Sunday play is just Message board fodder. .

I have never seen nor heard any one from the Big12 say the no Sunday play was an issue. The Big12 moved their basketball tourney finals to Saturday several years ago. Very few if any of the minor sports teams play on Sunday anyway.....maybe baseball rarely.