+- CSNbbs (https://csnbbs.com)
+-- Forum: Active Boards (/forum-769.html)
+--- Forum: Lounge (/forum-564.html)
+---- Forum: College Sports and Conference Realignment (/forum-637.html)
+---- Thread: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? (/thread-664580.html)
Pages: 1 2
Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - BullsFanatic - 12-01-2013 12:27 PM
I realize that one season should not decide conference decisions, but seeing that Hawaii ended their first Mountain West season at 1-11 (0-8 in conference) made me wonder.
UTEP Positives
Brings conference to 12 all-sports members
Great basketball tradition
Very good olympic sports (including championship track team)
Solid fan base
Regain Texas presence
UTEP Negatives
Traditionally bad at football
On the other hand....
Hawaii Positives
Solid fan base
Some good seasons, including Sugar Bowl appearance
Hawaii Bowl tie-in
TV networks like to use Hawaii for the nightcap (greater TV presence)
Hawaii Negatives
Travel (subsidies only solve part of the problem)
All-sports not an option
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - OrangeCrush22 - 12-01-2013 12:55 PM
No, drop Air Force instead.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - Side Show Joe - 12-01-2013 12:58 PM
Of course, but I don't think UTEP would leave. I think they are very happy with the new C-USA West division.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - Tom in Lazybrook - 12-01-2013 01:02 PM
Yes, but its not going to happen.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - arkstfan - 12-01-2013 02:18 PM
I don't see MWC dumping Hawaii but then again I was a bit surprised Hawaii didn't try to make a go of it as an independent. Their funky start times aren't high tv value but they can fill a programming hole and scheduling shouldn't be that hard.
UTEP, I just can't see ditching ties with the Central Time Zone Texas.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - Kittonhead - 12-01-2013 04:29 PM
If independent, Hawaii would schedule BYU annually an old WAC rival.
UTEP would move to the MWC in a heartbeat as it has a better reputation than CUSA in FB/BB plus its ultra stable. They almost always have a Top 25 presence in each sport.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - HeartOfDixie - 12-01-2013 04:32 PM
Hawaii will almost always struggle due to where they are and the problems that creates.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - lumberpack4 - 12-01-2013 06:41 PM
I'd like to see the ACC add them as our 16th.
NC State will volunteer for an away football game in late November. :)
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - goofus - 12-01-2013 06:50 PM
(12-01-2013 04:29 PM)Kittonhead Wrote: If independent, Hawaii would schedule BYU annually an old WAC rival.
UTEP would move to the MWC in a heartbeat as it has a better reputation than CUSA in FB/BB plus its ultra stable. They almost always have a Top 25 presence in each sport.
Too bad the Pac-12 does not want Hawaii and BYU for football only. It would work so well for both teams.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - TrojanCampaign - 12-01-2013 08:22 PM
(12-01-2013 12:58 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote: Of course, but I don't think UTEP would leave. I think they are very happy with the new C-USA West division.
UNT is happy with it. UTEP is only dealing with it because of no other options. If they ever get a way to get a way to separate from UNT and UTSA they are going to do it.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - Side Show Joe - 12-01-2013 08:44 PM
(12-01-2013 08:22 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:(12-01-2013 12:58 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote: Of course, but I don't think UTEP would leave. I think they are very happy with the new C-USA West division.
UNT is happy with it. UTEP is only dealing with it because of no other options. If they ever get a way to get a way to separate from UNT and UTSA they are going to do it.
You are way too hung up on North Texas. You should just let it go.
As for UTEP, they are not dealing with anything. Their university wants to conference with the other major cities in Texas. Many of their alums are located in Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio. I live in the Dallas area. I know several UTEP alums. One of them has a family member that works for UTEP. All of them prefer C-USA over the MWC. Believe me, their fans I know that came to the UTEP/UNT game this season, enjoyed watching their team play with an actual crowd (over 26,000) at the game. Those that went to watch UTEP play SMU in past seasons are very happy North Texas is in C-USA with them. You have no clue about the dynamics of Texas college football or what UTEP would do.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - Kaplony - 12-01-2013 08:51 PM
(12-01-2013 08:22 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:(12-01-2013 12:58 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote: Of course, but I don't think UTEP would leave. I think they are very happy with the new C-USA West division.
UNT is happy with it. UTEP is only dealing with it because of no other options. If they ever get a way to get a way to separate from UNT and UTSA they are going to do it.
There may be some of that sentiment, but while UTEP is in Texas it is quite a distance from where the recruits come from. The ability to play a game every other year in Houston/San Antonio/DFW is a huge benefit. Join the MWC and that goes away.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - OrangeCrush22 - 12-01-2013 09:06 PM
(12-01-2013 08:51 PM)Kaplony Wrote:(12-01-2013 08:22 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:(12-01-2013 12:58 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote: Of course, but I don't think UTEP would leave. I think they are very happy with the new C-USA West division.
UNT is happy with it. UTEP is only dealing with it because of no other options. If they ever get a way to get a way to separate from UNT and UTSA they are going to do it.
There may be some of that sentiment, but while UTEP is in Texas it is quite a distance from where the recruits come from. The ability to play a game every other year in Houston/San Antonio/DFW is a huge benefit. Join the MWC and that goes away.
OOC scheduling seems like it'd be easy for them. In the Dallas area there are 3 schools, in the Houston area there are 2 schools. Other than TCU they could all use some help selling tickets.
UTEP would be turning down more money, stability, and a higher profile conference. Their basketball program would gain a lot by making the move. They currently have the largest arena in C-USA at 12,222. In the MWC UTEP would have the 7th largest arena.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - dbackjon - 12-02-2013 12:27 AM
(12-01-2013 06:50 PM)goofus Wrote:Neither are a fit for PAC 12(12-01-2013 04:29 PM)Kittonhead Wrote: If independent, Hawaii would schedule BYU annually an old WAC rival.
UTEP would move to the MWC in a heartbeat as it has a better reputation than CUSA in FB/BB plus its ultra stable. They almost always have a Top 25 presence in each sport.
Too bad the Pac-12 does not want Hawaii and BYU for football only. It would work so well for both teams.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - Attackcoog - 12-02-2013 01:15 AM
(12-01-2013 08:44 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:(12-01-2013 08:22 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:(12-01-2013 12:58 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote: Of course, but I don't think UTEP would leave. I think they are very happy with the new C-USA West division.
UNT is happy with it. UTEP is only dealing with it because of no other options. If they ever get a way to get a way to separate from UNT and UTSA they are going to do it.
You are way too hung up on North Texas. You should just let it go.
As for UTEP, they are not dealing with anything. Their university wants to conference with the other major cities in Texas. Many of their alums are located in Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio. I live in the Dallas area. I know several UTEP alums. One of them has a family member that works for UTEP. All of them prefer C-USA over the MWC. Believe me, their fans I know that came to the UTEP/UNT game this season, enjoyed watching their team play with an actual crowd (over 26,000) at the game. Those that went to watch UTEP play SMU in past seasons are very happy North Texas is in C-USA with them. You have no clue about the dynamics of Texas college football or what UTEP would do.
UTEP would go to the MW if asked. Bigger names. State flagships. I do agree that they like Texas connections, so Im sure they would prefer to go with a Texas school or two. That said, if they are added, they would be paired with another school. Preferably BYU, but it could be another Texas school. If UTSA or Texas State takes off, I think those could be possible partners--Rice is also a possibility.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - TrojanCampaign - 12-02-2013 02:16 AM
(12-01-2013 08:44 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote:(12-01-2013 08:22 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:(12-01-2013 12:58 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote: Of course, but I don't think UTEP would leave. I think they are very happy with the new C-USA West division.
UNT is happy with it. UTEP is only dealing with it because of no other options. If they ever get a way to get a way to separate from UNT and UTSA they are going to do it.
You are way too hung up on North Texas. You should just let it go.
As for UTEP, they are not dealing with anything. Their university wants to conference with the other major cities in Texas. Many of their alums are located in Houston, Dallas, and San Antonio. I live in the Dallas area. I know several UTEP alums. One of them has a family member that works for UTEP. All of them prefer C-USA over the MWC. Believe me, their fans I know that came to the UTEP/UNT game this season, enjoyed watching their team play with an actual crowd (over 26,000) at the game. Those that went to watch UTEP play SMU in past seasons are very happy North Texas is in C-USA with them. You have no clue about the dynamics of Texas college football or what UTEP would do.
Has nothing to do with UNT it's all about what's best for the school and everyone is out for themselves. If they had an invitation they would be out CUSA as quickly as they can.
Saying UTEP would not want to be in the MWC is like seriously claiming Rice would not rather by in the AAC with Tulane, Houston, and SMU. Had those teams stayed in CUSA they would still be making fun of UNT and throwing up at the idea of playing with FCS teams.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - TrojanCampaign - 12-02-2013 02:22 AM
(12-01-2013 08:51 PM)Kaplony Wrote:(12-01-2013 08:22 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:(12-01-2013 12:58 PM)Side Show Joe Wrote: Of course, but I don't think UTEP would leave. I think they are very happy with the new C-USA West division.
UNT is happy with it. UTEP is only dealing with it because of no other options. If they ever get a way to get a way to separate from UNT and UTSA they are going to do it.
There may be some of that sentiment, but while UTEP is in Texas it is quite a distance from where the recruits come from. The ability to play a game every other year in Houston/San Antonio/DFW is a huge benefit. Join the MWC and that goes away.
There is no way that UTEP could not land games with Houston, UNT, TCU, or Rice every year. And you seem to forget that if UTEP goes someone else goes with them.
The MWC would make a power move by getting UTEP basketball and taking Rice.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - UTEPDallas - 12-02-2013 03:38 AM
UTEP would go the MWC if asked by themselves or with another school (like Rice for example). Wouldn't matter. Why? Because we have our biggest rival in that conference: New Mexico. Sure, both football programs are awful right now (well they've been bad forever LOL) but the UTEP-UNM basketball rivalry game would be the best in the MWC just like it was in the Ol' WAC days of the 80's and 90's.
Another reason is because we have history with Colorado State, Wyoming, Air Force, New Mexico, Hawaii, San Diego State and Fresno State. Nevada and Boise State were conference mates for a four or five years before UTEP left for C-USA. San Jose State was there but we never developed any emotion or hatred towards them and I'm sure they felt the same about us. Utah State was never in the WAC while UTEP was there but they have a good basketball program and it's making progress in football. Add the fact that most MWC schools fit the UTEP/El Paso profile of a urban school that's the only game in town (e.g. Albuquerque, Boise, Fresno, Las Vegas, Honolulu, Colorado Springs, etc) and it's a no brainer.
With that said, UTEP wouldn't mind staying in C-USA. Some cynics would say "well that's because you have no other options" and perhaps it's true but unlike the past 15 years when UTEP was left behind by the MWC defectors in the WAC with a bunch of schools UTEP had no history with (except for Fresno and Hawaii) and later when Rice, Tulsa and SMU left for C-USA.........UTEP is not currently desperate to leave the conference it's currently in like in the WAC days. Back in 2004, UTEP saw the writing in the wall that the WAC was a dying conference and wanted to get away as far as possible from Karl Benson. Sure, C-USA 3.0 is not the conference UTEP joined in 2005 and it's far from being perfect but it's a much better conference than the one UTEP was 10 years ago (WAC) where everybody was begging the MWC to take them and where it lost its Texas connection once SMU and Rice decided to leave. That's why UTEP came out of nowhere and took what was considered Louisiana Tech's spot after TCU announced it was going to the MWC.
But if UTEP ever goes to the MWC and loses its Texas connections (which has tried really hard to build when the SWC refugees were invited to the WAC-16 in the mid 90's) don't count on other Texas FBS schools in playing UTEP in OOC games in football. For decades UTEP was invisible in the rest of the state due to geography and being in a Western based conference. I'm sure the likes of Rice, SMU, Houston, North Texas, Texas State and UTSA wouldn't see the upside of playing UTEP. It benefits UTEP but they gain nothing in return except for UTEP fans filling their stadiums and arenas but that's it. Same goes for Tech, TCU, Texas, Baylor and A&M. Those would be money games with no return games to El Paso especially for UT and A&M. UTEP would not be in position to demand a one and one to some of those Texas schools because they'll know we really want the exposure and they gain nothing in return since El Paso offers little FBS caliber recruits (but it's a fertile HS baseball recruiting area) and it's a long drive from the state's biggest metro areas.
UTEP to the MWC is a double edged sword. On one side we would see familiar names on our schedule in FB and BB but our exposure in the rest of the state will be minimal to the point where UTEP would start recruiting more in California like it used to. Personally I would like to see UTEP in the MWC but at the same time I would be fine if UTEP stays in C-USA with Rice, UNT, UTSA, Southern Miss and Louisiana Tech in the same division. Like I said before, this is not the case like in 1998 or 2004 where we had to get out of the WAC. At least I don't see that feeling coming from our President and AD as it was in the WAC but I could be wrong.
As for Hawaii, they'll be fine and no, they're not going anywhere. They're staying in the MWC for FB and the Big West for BB/Oly sports. They have a good deal going on.
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - jdgaucho - 12-02-2013 04:38 AM
How does UTEP not even field a baseball team? I cannot imagine any Texas University without one.
And, do most Miner fans they feel like they belong more with the UAB's, UTSA's, Southern Miss's and WKU's? Or more like with the UNLV's, Colorado State's, UNM's and Utah State's??
RE: Should MWC drop Hawaii for UTEP? - Kittonhead - 12-02-2013 04:58 AM
(12-02-2013 12:27 AM)dbackjon Wrote:(12-01-2013 06:50 PM)goofus Wrote:Neither are a fit for PAC 12(12-01-2013 04:29 PM)Kittonhead Wrote: If independent, Hawaii would schedule BYU annually an old WAC rival.
UTEP would move to the MWC in a heartbeat as it has a better reputation than CUSA in FB/BB plus its ultra stable. They almost always have a Top 25 presence in each sport.
Too bad the Pac-12 does not want Hawaii and BYU for football only. It would work so well for both teams.
Football only isn't a bad idea. I've never heard it suggested before.