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Would Football Be the Answer? - LouPower - 09-28-2013 10:04 PM
As a fan of a school who doesn't have football, I'm wondering if that would reverse SLU's fortunes? The Billikens are currently more or less in limbo right now as a basketball school, and with the governance ideas in play; I wonder if SLU cast their lot with the mythical "Catholic Conference" dream that didn't happen for SLU.
Would it make more sense to do what Charlotte did and start football to get into a league like the AAC or C-USA, or do Billiken fans hold out hope that the basketball team maintains their level of performance and the Big East takes notice? The Atlantic 10 is a decent league, but looking at it from a geographic standpoint, it's not much different than the AAC or C-USA in terms of travel from St. Louis. The A-10 has been a good thing for SLU. That said, there are a lot of non-fits with it that should give us pause.
I don't think we're ever going to see another Billiken football game, but I just have this thought reading this board that it couldn't hurt. I hate the term mid-major with a passion, and some think the only way out is on the gridiron. I don't for a second think the Big East is mid-major (and would love a SLU invite to it).
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - LouPower - 09-28-2013 10:07 PM
For NJ Redman:
You know my thoughts that I'd love a Big East invite, but don't see one coming.
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - Love and Honor - 09-28-2013 10:16 PM
It wouldn't hurt your chances, who knows if the AAC would look your way. You'd have to first pay your dues by going back to C-USA (which I doubt you want to do now) or starting your program at the FCS level (Valley football probably) and then move up when it's well-developed. I would say that the MAC isn't a bad fit for SLU, but it'll never happen since the institutional contrast between you and the MAC schools is glaring.
Now that Father Biondi is gone from SLU, I would recommend you guys look into rebooting your hockey program again. Revenues and national interest for NCAA hockey are steadily growing, there's little competition you'd have in the midwest, and SLU would probably be capable of funding a program pretty well. Would have to build an arena (Chaifetz is way too big) and add a women's sport first.
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - LouPower - 09-28-2013 10:19 PM
Yeah, as you can probably tell, I'm not sure how a school actually does start up a football program. Just saw some old conference mates move because of it.
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - Vewb1 - 09-29-2013 06:28 AM
(09-28-2013 10:16 PM)Love and Honor Wrote: It wouldn't hurt your chances, who knows if the AAC would look your way. You'd have to first pay your dues by going back to C-USA (which I doubt you want to do now) or starting your program at the FCS level (Valley football probably) and then move up when it's well-developed. I would say that the MAC isn't a bad fit for SLU, but it'll never happen since the institutional contrast between you and the MAC schools is glaring.
Now that Father Biondi is gone from SLU, I would recommend you guys look into rebooting your hockey program again. Revenues and national interest for NCAA hockey are steadily growing, there's little competition you'd have in the midwest, and SLU would probably be capable of funding a program pretty well. Would have to build an arena (Chaifetz is way too big) and add a women's sport first.
I don't see the AAC looking towards St. Louis. To be honest, I really like the Bilikins and their program. They have beaten us over the years at the worst possible time. I think the AAC has to remain a football conference and not co-mingle with basketball only schools. For example, no entrance unless you are a division one football school. There is a place for these schools, but where is the question?
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - mikeinsec127 - 09-29-2013 06:32 AM
I would have to say that the idea of any private school starting football and being able to maintain the steady growth to get to FBS is basically impossible. Even with strong BE backing Vilanova couldn't pull it off with an established FCS program. StL would be at a far greater disadvantage of having to build from scratch and find conferences to act as a nurcery while you promote yourself to the MAC/CUSA. Can anybody even remember the last time a private moved up? I think it was day in the 1950's. Liberty seems to be wanting and capable of making the move, but no conferences are interested.
You would be best served by continuing to invest in your ball programs. Looking at other potential revenue sports such as hockey and lacrosse can't hurt. Both are less expensive to start than football. Piggyback girls teams with them and the Title IX issues are addressed as well.
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - Zombiewoof - 09-29-2013 06:56 AM
The school I went to had been a women's only college and when they began to allow male students, the administration started a football team to make the school more attractive to new students. They went out and offered an entire JUCO team to play there. It worked out well for them as the school had a 17-1 record for the 2-year existence of the program.
If I were part of a school that wanted to quickly establish a football program, I'd go to one of the premier JUCO programs in the country and offer the whole team. In any given year, the top JUCO teams from Mississippi, Texas, California, Kansas or Utah would give a school a decent base to begin a program.
Another factor is scheduling. Players want to play in games against name schools, even if they aren't likely to be competitive games. South Alabama's football program is just a few years old and I remember when they started up, I heard that they already had Mississippi State and Tennessee on future schedules. I thought at the time that the money they would make for those games would be good, but it would be a while before they could compete on the field with the schools they were scheduling. But here we are a few years later and I believe the Jaguars actually led Tennessee Saturday before losing 31-24. Start-up programs can be competitive fairly quickly with good coaching and a good plan.
I'd love to see Saint Louis play football.
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - Wolfman - 09-29-2013 07:26 AM
Quote:As a fan of a school who doesn't have football, I'm wondering if that would reverse SLU's fortunes?
Depends on what you mean by fortunes. Football can be a major revenue source or it can be a monster that spits out tons red ink for decades. There are a lot of questions that go along with this. Fan support? Ticket prices? Facilities? If the answers turn out to be positive then yes, football can be a great addition.
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - Bearcats#1 - 09-29-2013 07:55 AM
SLU...always will be the school that Kmart broke his leg against in my book.
Would Football Be the Answer? - chargeradio - 09-29-2013 08:05 AM
One positive for SLU is that Missouri is relatively undeserved in college football:
FBS
Missouri
FCS
Missouri State
Southeast Missouri State
I wouldn't expect much for SLU, though - FBS football is largely a public school's game. That said, starting Division I football on any level should result in some type of conference affiliation. The Pioneer League (non-scholarship FCS) has Butler, Valparaiso, Drake, and Dayton. The Missouri Valley (full scholarship FCS) footprint is effectively centered on St. Louis, although St. Louis would need an expansion partner. The MAC and Sun Belt (FBS) could stand football-only additions.
The biggest hurdle for SLU may be Title IX - there are already two more women's sports being offered than men's sports. Unless if the Billikens go fairly deep in the catalog or boost male enrollment substantially, FBS football is unrealistic, and FCS football may be a challenge. At least the Atlantic 10 offers women's lacrosse and women's rowing, which would be the two most likely candidates for SLU to add. Women's Bowling, Golf, Gymnastics, and Rifle could also be options.
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - Bearcats#1 - 09-29-2013 08:11 AM
(09-29-2013 08:05 AM)chargeradio Wrote: One positive for SLU is that Missouri is relatively undeserved in college football:
FBS
Missouri
FCS
Missouri State
Southeast Missouri State
I wouldn't expect much for SLU, though - FBS football is largely a public school's game. That said, starting Division I football on any level should result in some type of conference affiliation. The Pioneer League (non-scholarship FCS) has Butler, Valparaiso, Drake, and Dayton. The Missouri Valley (full scholarship FCS) footprint is effectively centered on St. Louis, although St. Louis would need an expansion partner. The MAC and Sun Belt (FBS) could stand football-only additions.
The biggest hurdle for SLU may be Title IX - there are already two more women's sports being offered than men's sports. Unless if the Billikens go fairly deep in the catalog or boost male enrollment substantially, FBS football is unrealistic, and FCS football may be a challenge. At least the Atlantic 10 offers women's lacrosse and women's rowing, which would be the two most likely candidates for SLU to add. Women's Bowling, Golf, Gymnastics, and Rifle could also be options.
SLU FBS football probably isn't going to happen for multiple reasons
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - NJRedMan - 09-29-2013 11:05 AM
The invites coming soon Lou.
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - Love and Honor - 09-29-2013 11:35 AM
(09-28-2013 10:19 PM)LouPower Wrote: Yeah, as you can probably tell, I'm not sure how a school actually does start up a football program. Just saw some old conference mates move because of it.
You'd need some really big donors to get everything off the ground, from salaries to facilities to scholarships. I'm not sure if Hermann Stadium is fit to host football, but at the least you could play at the Edward Jones Dome. However, after thinking about it some more your best option would likely be the Pioneer League. They're going to start getting an auto-bid to the FCS playoffs this year and it would be a lot cheaper than FBS or scholarship FCS. But like I said, the initial investment would be very high and I would recommend you look into hockey foremost.
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - Wedge - 09-29-2013 12:34 PM
(09-29-2013 06:32 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote: I would have to say that the idea of any private school starting football and being able to maintain the steady growth to get to FBS is basically impossible. Even with strong BE backing Vilanova couldn't pull it off with an established FCS program.
A private school with enough money could spend it and start an FBS program, but being successful in FBS is a much different matter. Which is probably what 'Nova concluded.
A small private school, in an NFL city, with popular big-time college football teams not too far away... that's the situation that faced Villanova, and SLU would be in the same boat. It's hard to imagine a start-up FBS team in that situation ever averaging 30,000 fans per home game or generating enough money from boosters to have a P5-sized football budget.
In fact, that last point ought to be the first question anyone asks and answers before they start working on a start-up program or moving from FCS to FBS: What's your plan for raising and continuing to raise all the money needed to be successful in FBS in the long term?
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - bullet - 09-29-2013 02:02 PM
(09-29-2013 06:32 AM)mikeinsec127 Wrote: I would have to say that the idea of any private school starting football and being able to maintain the steady growth to get to FBS is basically impossible. Even with strong BE backing Vilanova couldn't pull it off with an established FCS program. StL would be at a far greater disadvantage of having to build from scratch and find conferences to act as a nurcery while you promote yourself to the MAC/CUSA. Can anybody even remember the last time a private moved up? I think it was day in the 1950's. Liberty seems to be wanting and capable of making the move, but no conferences are interested.
You would be best served by continuing to invest in your ball programs. Looking at other potential revenue sports such as hockey and lacrosse can't hurt. Both are less expensive to start than football. Piggyback girls teams with them and the Title IX issues are addressed as well.
Its not impossible, but I doubt it is worth it. Private school's tuition is more, their enrollment is smaller (meaning less potential fans) and their admission standards are tougher than any of the state schools considering it. In addition, they already tend to have good alumni involvement, which is one of the primary motivators for state schools to have football.
Would Football Be the Answer? - chargeradio - 09-29-2013 03:16 PM
Hockey could be a very strategic addition. The SLU women could play in College Hockey America where Lindenwood (St. Charles, MO) is already a member. The National Collegiate Hockey Conference may be too much out of the gate for the SLU men, although right now it and the Big Ten are the only conferences with less than twelve. Perhaps the NCHC expands and opens up a spot for SLU in the WCHA.
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - ark30inf - 09-29-2013 03:51 PM
(09-28-2013 10:04 PM)LouPower Wrote: As a fan of a school who doesn't have football, I'm wondering if that would reverse SLU's fortunes? The Billikens are currently more or less in limbo right now as a basketball school, and with the governance ideas in play; I wonder if SLU cast their lot with the mythical "Catholic Conference" dream that didn't happen for SLU.
Would it make more sense to do what Charlotte did and start football to get into a league like the AAC or C-USA, or do Billiken fans hold out hope that the basketball team maintains their level of performance and the Big East takes notice? The Atlantic 10 is a decent league, but looking at it from a geographic standpoint, it's not much different than the AAC or C-USA in terms of travel from St. Louis. The A-10 has been a good thing for SLU. That said, there are a lot of non-fits with it that should give us pause.
I don't think we're ever going to see another Billiken football game, but I just have this thought reading this board that it couldn't hurt. I hate the term mid-major with a passion, and some think the only way out is on the gridiron. I don't for a second think the Big East is mid-major (and would love a SLU invite to it).
Yeah focus on Hockey, Lacrosse, etc. and try to get an associate membership for some of those sports in one of the conferences you are ultimately interested in for basketball. Then win in basketball a lot.
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - orangefan - 09-29-2013 04:46 PM
If the Rams can't work out a stadium deal and move to LA, it would be a very interesting move for the Billikens to add football an move into the Edward Jones Dome
RE: Would Football Be the Answer? - NoDak - 09-29-2013 07:18 PM
(09-29-2013 04:46 PM)orangefan Wrote: If the Rams can't work out a stadium deal and move to LA, it would be a very interesting move for the Billikens to add football an move into the Edward Jones Dome
The Rams leaving would be the only way Billiken football can make a cost effective run. Most FBS schools are finance off the back of fees charged to 30,000 students. The SLU already has tuition to pay, never mind football fees. And the fees would be much higher than UTSA or Charlotte due to the size of the student body.
With Lindenwood likely having hockey, lacrosse might be the Billikens option.
Re: Would Football Be the Answer? - 72Tiger - 10-02-2013 05:57 PM
I've always wanted the Billikens to play football so I could complete my ultimate 9 team all sports conference!
Memphis
Louisville
Cincinnati
St Louis
S Miss
Tulane
Houston
Tulsa
UCF
Don't see it happening though.