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RE: Andy Dalton sucks - SuperFlyBCat - 12-02-2013 12:51 PM
While it remains true that the QB is so-so, it’s also becoming apparent the Bengals are good enough to win without him. They did last week. They did Sunday. How much they can win with him is the million-dollar question. But for me, it’s obvious now they can at least win that elusive first-round playoff game. They beat a decent team, on the road, in a game the other guys needed to stay playoff relevant. They beat yet another very good QB, who is having one of his better years. They did it with defense, mainly, but also a running game that mashed when it mattered. And a growing confidence and will not to lose.
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/daugherty/2013/12/02/the-morning-line-122-the-men-impress/
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - Overrated - 12-02-2013 01:18 PM
(12-02-2013 09:43 AM)RealDeal Wrote: I watched the game and I can recall 3 big pass plays. One Green was wide open and scored a TD, another he was wide open and got a big gain down the sideline, and Hawkins turned a 5 yard pass into a big gain. There are dozens of college QBs who could have made the plays the Bengals asked of their QB yesterday. Give the coaches credit, they recognize how limited their QB is and they're essentialy taking the ball out of his hands.
It baffles me that people think playing quarterback in the NFL is this easy.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - coachpipe - 12-02-2013 01:23 PM
(12-02-2013 01:18 PM)Overrated Wrote:(12-02-2013 09:43 AM)RealDeal Wrote: I watched the game and I can recall 3 big pass plays. One Green was wide open and scored a TD, another he was wide open and got a big gain down the sideline, and Hawkins turned a 5 yard pass into a big gain. There are dozens of college QBs who could have made the plays the Bengals asked of their QB yesterday. Give the coaches credit, they recognize how limited their QB is and they're essentialy taking the ball out of his hands.
It baffles me that people think playing quarterback in the NFL is this easy.
Noone is saying its easy. Im just looking for more "nice pass" moments than "WTF was that" moments. And personally watching the offense struggle with all those weapons is very frustrating.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - HoopsJunky - 12-02-2013 02:00 PM
(12-02-2013 09:43 AM)RealDeal Wrote: I watched the game and I can recall 3 big pass plays. One Green was wide open and scored a TD, another he was wide open and got a big gain down the sideline, and Hawkins turned a 5 yard pass into a big gain. There are dozens of college QBs who could have made the plays the Bengals asked of their QB yesterday. Give the coaches credit, they recognize how limited their QB is and they're essentialy taking the ball out of his hands.
I don't get it.
Dalton throws for 190 yards, 1 INT and 1 TD and people want to praise him?
Bengals ran the ball well yesterday (38 times for 164 yards)
Won the turnover margin 3-1
Dalton had good protection all day
Why only 17 points against a BAD defense?
AJ was WIDE open for the 28 yard TD.
Dalton threw a 5 yard pass to Hawkins which he turned into a 50 yard catch.
Take those away and Dalton was 12-21 for 112 yards with an INT.
The Bengals Defense and rushing attack won the game.
Dalton reminds me of Trent Dilfer the year the Bengals won the Super Bowl.
I just hope the Bengals Defense is good enough to carry them
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - Eastside_J - 12-02-2013 02:11 PM
Again you guys are pointing to several very good pass plays. Amazing pass plays, well no? Routinely good pass plays.
And I have to laugh at "hit Hawkins in stride" - yes he definitely did. And all of you apparently found it as surprising as I did. The question you have to ask yourself is - why is that so surprising?
Well it is surprising because before that play he threw a whole host of balls that an NFL QB should rarely throw - much less over and over in the same game.
Lets talk about the first pass - AJs slant route - the ball went 4 feet over AJs head across the middle with a safety closing on him. That is a very easy, short, quick pass, my friends. Roughly 70% - 85% efficiency on the slant in the NFL
Lets talk about Marvin Jones's short post route that Dalton threw at his shins.
Lets talk about the absolutely bizarre double coverage hail mary pass. Be honest when was the last time you saw that in the NFL (outside of a true hail mary situation? A guy for absolutely no reason chucks the ball as hard and high as he can, into double coverage and misses his target receiver by well over 10 yards. Seriously.
I get it - the Bengals won so people are more inclined to praise the ordinary. And forget the ridiculously bad.
But seriously the guy has 22 TDs and 16 INTs. Which is very misleading because most of the positive side of those stats came in one ridiculous game against the inept Jets. Take out the Jets game and he is 17 TDS with 15 INTs. with a NFL pro bowl WR, 2 very high caliber TE's and a very strong group of complementary receivers.
Our running game and defense has to work because no NFL team is going far who is basically near a 1:1 TD/INT ratio against all but the worst teams.
Take a look at Dalton's QBR, which is far more inclusive than rating and takes into account bad passes. By standard "rating" you would think Dalton (83) was comparable to Rivers (80). By QBR, not so much - Dalton's QBR was 44 and Rivers was 58. NFL "average" is 50.
Overall Dalton's QBR for the year is 49.8, which places him at #22 in the NFL for the year. Rivers is 71. #22 is probably a little under where I would place Dalton if I had to rank him for the year. Probably closer to 18th in the NFL. Rivers is ranked #3 in the NFL at 71 - that has to be a career high water mark for him.
Dalton shows flashes of being a good quarterback. Right now he isn't. He makes far too many mistakes and frequent bad throws.
Yet I would rather have him than Carson Palmer. Even though their stats are frequently similiar. Although, ahem, we did fight a similiar mulit-year battle on the board regarding the play of Carson Palmer. And lets face it, I was right about that argument as well, but won't go there now out of modesty and my respect for Bearhawkeye.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - Overrated - 12-02-2013 02:34 PM
Its a lot easier to trash a guy when you take away all of his good moments like the last two posters have done.
It also is a terrible way to make an argument.
The reason the ball went so high on the interception was because he was rushed and hit immediately as he threw it, not allowing him to follow through. The ball still shouldn't have been thrown because there was a safety sitting over top. But the throw was so bad because the protection didn't hold up. Andy's mistake with that play was the read. But if we just take that play away, Dalton's passer rating for the day was over 100 and it was a solid day. Man I'm great at arguing.
And the turnover margin yesterday was 3-2, not 3-1. And to call the Jets inept would be accurate, but that would be because of of their offense, not their defense. Their defense is actually pretty good. So it doesn't even make sense to take that impressive performance away.
just so many things wrong with all these arguments.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - Bearhawkeye - 12-02-2013 02:48 PM
Quote:While it remains true that the QB is so-so, it’s also becoming apparent the Bengals are good enough to win without him. They did last week. They did Sunday...
Uh, no they didn't Doc. They won without their two best defensive players, Geno Atkins and Leon Hall. They proved that they can do that. But Dalton didn't miss a regular snap at QB last week. Or this week. So the reality is they've won with Dalton (27 out of 44 of his career starts as a matter of fact). Take a look around the NFL - most teams would be thrilled with a QB who just joined Peyton Manning as the only QBs in NFL history to throw for 3,000 yards in each of their first 3 seasons.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - Overrated - 12-02-2013 02:54 PM
I don't think its wrong to want more from the qb position. If the Bengals had a qb on the level of even Tony Romo (who I think is way underrated by most), I think they'd be one of the Super Bowl favorites instead of in the conversation, but just an outside shot.
But I do think a lot of the arguments against Dalton aren't exactly intelligent, to say the least.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - Eastside_J - 12-02-2013 03:30 PM
(12-02-2013 02:34 PM)Overrated Wrote: Its a lot easier to trash a guy when you take away all of his good moments like the last two posters have done.
It also is a terrible way to make an argument.
The reason the ball went so high on the interception was because he was rushed and hit immediately as he threw it, not allowing him to follow through. The ball still shouldn't have been thrown because there was a safety sitting over top. But the throw was so bad because the protection didn't hold up. Andy's mistake with that play was the read. But if we just take that play away, Dalton's passer rating for the day was over 100 and it was a solid day. Man I'm great at arguing.
And the turnover margin yesterday was 3-2, not 3-1. And to call the Jets inept would be accurate, but that would be because of of their offense, not their defense. Their defense is actually pretty good. So it doesn't even make sense to take that impressive performance away.
just so many things wrong with all these arguments.
Fair enough. And you could also say it ridiculous to use one game to say whether a guy was a high quality QB. Unfortunately his QBR numbers have been 49.8 (2011), 48.9 (2012) and 49.8 YTD.
If you believe in the QBR stat that puts him at just under the "50" which is baseline - NFL Average.
Here is my take on Dalton - Both on those "good" plays and those "bad" plays. Dalton did them (excuses or no excuses) because that is how he plays, that is what he has done for 3 years, this is "where he is" as an NFL QB. A few nice plays, a few bad reads that lead to negative plays, a few good reads with bad execution.
I like everything else about him - he is tough, he is a good leader, he isn't a quitter. I think he is capable of doing bettter, perhaps even much better.
You would expect a measure of improvement from year to year and he really hasn't had ANY. Truthfully either did Carson Palmer, who actually REGRESSED. Which makes me wonder whether Ken Zampese, the coach for both guys, is an issue.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - Eastside_J - 12-02-2013 03:56 PM
(12-02-2013 02:48 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:Quote:While it remains true that the QB is so-so, it’s also becoming apparent the Bengals are good enough to win without him. They did last week. They did Sunday...
Uh, no they didn't Doc. They won without their two best defensive players, Geno Atkins and Leon Hall. They proved that they can do that. But Dalton didn't miss a regular snap at QB last week. Or this week. So the reality is they've won with Dalton (27 out of 44 of his career starts as a matter of fact). Take a look around the NFL - most teams would be thrilled with a QB who just joined Peyton Manning as the only QBs in NFL history to throw for 3,000 yards in each of their first 3 seasons.
C'mon man, what NFL team would care about that stat? The only thing it really says is that Dalton played in every game from his rookie year on. There is no magic to 3,000 yards that says you are a great QB - 18-20 guys will hit that mark this year alone.
I do agree that there are quite a few teams that would love to have Dalton as their QB, but its not like they would do it with Manning comparisons or even the prospect of greatness, generally speaking in mind, they would do it because there are several teams with weak and/or aging QB's.
Don't get me wrong about Dalton, I know we could be have much worse!
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - RealDeal - 12-02-2013 05:34 PM
(12-02-2013 02:54 PM)Overrated Wrote: If the Bengals had a qb on the level of even Tony Romo (who I think is way underrated by most), I think they'd be one of the Super Bowl favorites instead of in the conversation, but just an outside shot.
you are correct about Romo, he gets overly scrutinized because he's the Dallas Cowboys QB. He hasn't won playoff games because he's had bad teams around him. He makes a team that should be picking in the top 5 every year a .500 team. After the games 4 truly elite QBs, Romo is as good as anybody and if Romo were the Bengals QB they'd be favored over both the Broncos and Patriots.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - Bearhawkeye - 12-03-2013 02:52 AM
(12-02-2013 03:56 PM)Eastside_J Wrote:(12-02-2013 02:48 PM)Bearhawkeye Wrote:Quote:While it remains true that the QB is so-so, it’s also becoming apparent the Bengals are good enough to win without him. They did last week. They did Sunday...
Uh, no they didn't Doc. They won without their two best defensive players, Geno Atkins and Leon Hall. They proved that they can do that. But Dalton didn't miss a regular snap at QB last week. Or this week. So the reality is they've won with Dalton (27 out of 44 of his career starts as a matter of fact). Take a look around the NFL - most teams would be thrilled with a QB who just joined Peyton Manning as the only QBs in NFL history to throw for 3,000 yards in each of their first 3 seasons.
C'mon man, what NFL team would care about that stat? The only thing it really says is that Dalton played in every game from his rookie year on. There is no magic to 3,000 yards that says you are a great QB - 18-20 guys will hit that mark this year alone.
I do agree that there are quite a few teams that would love to have Dalton as their QB, but its not like they would do it with Manning comparisons or even the prospect of greatness, generally speaking in mind, they would do it because there are several teams with weak and/or aging QB's.
Don't get me wrong about Dalton, I know we could be have much worse!
Well if it's such a non-accomplishment, why is it only Dalton and arguably the greatest QB in NFL history are the only ones who have accomplished it? In any event I agree it's far from the only reason many teams would be very happy with Dalton.
Here's what I don't get - if you told any team in the NFL that needed a QB that they could draft a QB #1 overall (much less in R2 as the 5th QB drafted) and that he'd start basically every game (iirc) from Day 1 for his first 3 years with no serious injuries, throw for over 3,000 yards each year, cause zero controversies (outside of some myopic "fans"), and go 27-17 after 44 games (again he did it with the Bengals of all teams) pretty much every team in the NFL would jump at him. He's done everything any team could realistically have hoped for from him and more and he still gets nit-picked by some over every imperfect throw.
Somehow, for a loud portion of fans, the analysis for Dalton seems to be: if he's not "elite" (whatever that means and which nobody has called him as of yet), he "sucks". No perspective whatsoever on NFL QBs. Even if it wasn't realistically nearly impossible, finding a clearly superior replacement for Dalton would cost an absolute fortune (in picks/money).
BTW, here's more on the one whole pick he threw Sunday that so many "fans" can't stop talking about:
Quote:In assessing the win in San Diego, Gruden took the blame for Dalton’s interception during the second quarter, but was happy with how they did during the second half.
The Bengals did more screens and short throws during the second half, which helped open things up a little bit for a couple downfield throws later on.
“When we’re running and we’re at a slow tempo, we’re not as effective as we are when we’re getting first downs and moving the ball with the runs and play actions and the screens,” Gruden said.
On the interception to Eric Weddle, Gruden told the offense that he was going to call it at some point because he hasn’t seen a deep ball at some point that A.J. Green hasn’t allowed to get intercepted. In this case though, Dalton threw the ball as he was being hit and Green misjudged the angle.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - BeerCat - 12-03-2013 07:29 AM
There is no stat(s) in the world that can convince anyone that Andy Dalton compares even the slightest bit to Peyton Manning.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - Eastside_J - 12-03-2013 09:35 AM
Hawkeye - we do agree on one thing for sure. It would be hard or expensive to replace Dalton. Even a guy in the "middle of the pack" in terms of quality of play is hard to draft and, in many years even harder to buy on the open market.
I mean look at Cleveland. It took them years to find a guy that can play.
I don't mind the fact that we don't have a rocket arm vertical passing QB like Manning, Brees, Brady etc. You don't have to be "that guy" to take a team to the SB in the NFL. But you do have to be a guy who hits his targets in the short and medium game and makes few mistakes. Dalton has a lot to work with, has been hit far fewer than most NFL QB's and still hasn't done either consistently.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - HoopsJunky - 12-04-2013 01:18 PM
Dalton
Why the Bengals should draft a QB
By Mike Sando | ESPN.com
Two months ago, when the Cincinnati Bengals' talented young offense was faltering, we asked whether they could succeed with Andy Dalton at quarterback. Then, when Dalton put together three stellar performances during a four-game winning streak, we asked whether this version of Dalton was the real one. In four games since then, Dalton has a league-high nine interceptions. He ranks 32nd out of 34 qualifying quarterbacks in yards per pass attempt, passer rating and Total QBR in that span.
These wild swings have marked Dalton's career through 46 starts spread across three NFL seasons. The Bengals may be 8-4 and closing in on their third successive playoff spot with Dalton behind center, but those erratic performances are precisely why Cincinnati should draft a quarterback in 2014.
The Bengals won't feel any pressure to select one if they claim a playoff victory for the first time since 1990. And if Dalton lights it up in the postseason, all the better. But Cincy and a few other teams with glass-half-full quarterback situations shouldn't settle for the status quo unconditionally. They need viable alternatives in case their current starters have plateaued and the glass is half-empty.
We'll look at what the numbers say, compare Dalton to similar quarterbacks, suggest a plan for improvement and explain why two NFL insiders believe the Bengals are in good hands at the position. It's our latest midweek look at quarterback play using Total QBR and insights from around the league.
The Detroit Lions' Matthew Stafford catches heat for offsetting too many of the spectacular plays he makes with bad ones severely damaging his team's chances for winning. Research referenced in our Monday piece linked Stafford to a league-high number of plays this season reducing his team's win probability by at least 15 percentage points. These included five interceptions, two late-game incomplete passes, two lost fumbles and a late fourth-down completion short of the sticks in Arizona. The study supported Stafford's image as a highly talented gunslinger.
Dalton is a vastly different type of quarterback. While Stafford's prodigious talent made him the first overall choice in 2009, Dalton lasted until the second round of the 2011 draft because his raw physical skills were rather ordinary by NFL standards. The Bengals and other teams loved what Dalton offered as an emotionally steady leader and as someone who had always won, including 41 times as a starter at TCU. What Dalton lacked physically, he would make up for through leadership and efficient play, the thinking went. And if you look at his 27-19 starting record with the Bengals, a case can be made that Dalton has delivered. He instantly provided stability at the position after Cincinnati emerged from the 2011 lockout without seven-year starter Carson Palmer.
"The thing people don't measure is the steadiness and leadership," a quarterback for another team said. "On the Monday night game, they were talking about Johnny Manziel being a shorter guy like Drew Brees and Russell Wilson, and I say, 'Don't ever mention Manziel with those two guys again.' Those two bring class and professionalism to a locker room full of people that do not always have those things. For Dalton, that was a team that was upside-down with a questionable locker room and he goes there and it is the right mix, plays well. I liked Dalton at TCU, think he is good and I'm a fan. Good player."
Steady leadership does not necessarily equal steady play, however. The fact that Dalton is lacking some of the physical tools that made Stafford a No. 1 pick does not automatically make him less volatile from a production standpoint. If it did, Dalton probably would not rank a close second to Stafford since 2011 in costliest plays involving quarterbacks. The same win-probability stats showing Stafford with the highest number of minus-15 plays in 2013 also show Dalton with 25 of them for his career. Only Stafford, with 26, has more over the same period. But Stafford also has 31 plays improving his team's win probability by at least 15 percentage points, one off the league lead. Dalton ranks eighth with 18 of them -- a healthy number, but well off his negative total.
This is not an air-tight way to evaluate quarterbacks or even QB volatility. It's a rough guide. The first chart below provides another measure. It categorizes single-game Total QBR scores by range for players with at least 44 starts in their first three seasons since 2006. Dalton has finished 21 of his 46 starts with QBR scores beneath 40, not so good for a player with an elite receiver (A.J. Green) and other capable weapons. For reference, consider that NFL starters in general are at 54.4 in QBR for the season. Peyton Manning, Nick Foles, Philip Rivers and Aaron Rodgers are the only qualifying ones with 2013 full-season QBR scores in the 70s or higher. At the other end, Terrelle Pryor, Chad Henne, Brandon Weeden and Geno Smith are the only players with full-season scores below 40. Dalton is at 49.8 this season, within one point of where he was in each of his previous two seasons. Is that progress?
"I really liked him coming out (of college)," a GM from another team said. "I really liked him from (the neck) up. He is really steady, he is smart, he doesn’t get rattled. Physically, he has a quick release. He has a stronger arm than people think. I know he has had some games that have been up and down, but they are 8-4 and I wouldn’t say they have a dynamic offense around him. It takes time. Remember Peyton Manning's first couple years. He was good and still went to the playoffs early, but it still took time. He was turning the ball over a lot early in his career."
The general point might be valid, but Manning isn't the right comparable. Manning passed for 4,413 yards with 33 touchdowns passes and 15 interceptions in his third season. Dalton's stats through 46 starts line up more closely with those Mark Sanchez posted early in his career with the New York Jets: lots of wins, some impressive games and quite a few bad ones.
Games With Total QBR Scores in Various Ranges (First 46 Career Starts)
QBR Range Under 40 40s-50s 60s-70s 80+ Total QBR Score
Matt Ryan 9 12 5 20 67.2
Cam Newton* 15 5 11 13 56.2
Joe Flacco 17 11 10 8 50.5
Josh Freeman 17 11 12 6 49.0
Andy Dalton 21 9 8 8 47.9
Mark Sanchez 20 7 12 7 44.5
Sam Bradford 25 11 9 1 39.7
Totals 124 66 67 63 50.9
The second chart provides cumulative stats for the same players over the same periods of time (first 46 starts, counting any playoff games). Dalton's numbers hold up decently compared to those for other quarterbacks with a similar number of starts over the first three seasons of their careers. He ranks near the middle of a tightly bunched group. The fifth column, labeled TD-TO, shows total touchdowns and total turnovers.
Stats Through 46 Starts for QBs Who Started Right Away
QB Win Pct. Comp. Pct. YPA TD-TO Sacked Rating Total QBR
Matt Ryan .696 60.7 6.9 68-43 61 86.0 67.2
Cam Newton* .500 59.6 7.7 87-46 102 86.1 56.2
Joe Flacco .630 60.3 7.0 55-43 88 82.6 50.5
Josh Freeman .413 59.9 7.0 66-61 85 80.6 49.6
Andy Dalton .587 60.4 6.8 74-58 102 82.6 47.9
Mark Sanchez .609 55.7 6.8 61-55 79 75.6 44.5
Sam Bradford .359 58.3 6.2 54-48 116 77.8 39.5
Another GM said he thought Dalton could do well to refocus on mechanics and pattern his game after Brees' by adding pace to his drop back and initial setup in the pocket. Brees' over-the-top delivery and follow through might also be something to mimic. "Dalton has the quick mind, the release, the ability to process the whole field, make quick decisions and get the ball out of his hands on time," this GM said. A veteran defensive coach agreed that Dalton could improve in those areas, but he thought the effect would be modest, not exponential.
For the Bengals, drafting another quarterback would not mean giving up on Dalton. It would mean investing wisely from a position of strength. Cincinnati does not have a quarterback problem, but it also doesn't know whether Dalton is the long-term solution. Why not give yourself a chance to get better when Josh Johnson is the backup right now? The St. Louis Rams are in a somewhat similar situation while Sam Bradford recovers from knee surgery. They love Bradford, but can they count on him? They could own two high first-round picks in 2014, giving them ample capital to select a quarterback somewhere in the first half of the draft, just in case Bradford isn't what they expect him to be. The Chicago Bears are another team with above-average QB options, but no young prospect to develop. They could use one.
The Bengals could do much worse than Dalton. They should be grateful for what Dalton has provided so early in his career and hopeful about his future. They should also be fearful that Dalton isn't going to get much better.
Cincy's 17-10 victory at San Diego in Week 13 began with Dalton throwing too high for Green on third down of the opening drive. Green took a punishing hit. Later in the half, Dalton did not follow through against an onrushing defender, serving up an easy interception. Dalton went into halftime having completed 5 of 10 passes for 41 yards against a defense that had on average allowed its previous opponents to complete 11 of 17 passes for 133 yards in first halves. Dalton was better from that point forward, but the game turned most decisively when an injury forced left tackle Andrew Whitworth to play guard. Whitworth mauled defenders on power running plays, allowing the Bengals to control the game.
Dalton finished the game with an 83.6 passer rating and 44.4 QBR score. Eleven other quarterbacks faced the Chargers this season, and eight were better against San Diego in both categories. That's hardly the work of an elite QB.
The Bengals will take the victory, of course, but for how long should they accept their current level of QB play without at least considering options for the future?
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - Eastside_J - 12-04-2013 02:32 PM
The fact that Sando doesn't even cite my posts in all that is very disappointing.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - Overrated - 12-04-2013 03:17 PM
The nature of that article is a big dilemma for the Bengals this offseason. As Sando notes, the Bengals are drafting from a position of strength, but only to a degree. This is said to be a strong qb draft (although Mariotta staying weakens it at the top), but you have to strongly believe that Dalton can't get it done to draft a qb with an early pick, even if he doesn't play right away. The nature of free agency hits teams the hardest as they start to perform really well. While the Bengals have locked down some of their big pieces, others are going to want to get paid this off season or soon after. The Bengals will obviously not be able to pay all of them. Which is where the draft comes into play. As we saw last year, the Bengals prepared for the possible departure of Michael Johnson by drafting Margus Hunt a year early. Using a first or second round draft pick on a qb will take away the ability to fill another hole. So while drafting another quarterback may not mean giving up on Dalton entirely, it would have to be seen as near the end unless he dramatically changed in the eyes of the Bengals. Otherwise drafting a player that isn't going to play soon for a team that is in win now mode seems like a poor allocation of a finite amount of resources.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - Coopdaddy67 - 12-04-2013 04:56 PM
The Bengals need to get healthy, draft everything but a QB and then bring in Trent Dilfer to manage the offense.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - Eastside_J - 12-04-2013 05:03 PM
(12-04-2013 03:17 PM)Overrated Wrote: The nature of that article is a big dilemma for the Bengals this offseason. As Sando notes, the Bengals are drafting from a position of strength, but only to a degree. This is said to be a strong qb draft (although Mariotta staying weakens it at the top), but you have to strongly believe that Dalton can't get it done to draft a qb with an early pick, even if he doesn't play right away. The nature of free agency hits teams the hardest as they start to perform really well. While the Bengals have locked down some of their big pieces, others are going to want to get paid this off season or soon after. The Bengals will obviously not be able to pay all of them. Which is where the draft comes into play. As we saw last year, the Bengals prepared for the possible departure of Michael Johnson by drafting Margus Hunt a year early. Using a first or second round draft pick on a qb will take away the ability to fill another hole. So while drafting another quarterback may not mean giving up on Dalton entirely, it would have to be seen as near the end unless he dramatically changed in the eyes of the Bengals. Otherwise drafting a player that isn't going to play soon for a team that is in win now mode seems like a poor allocation of a finite amount of resources.
You are going to laugh - as much as I have criticized Dalton, I wouldn't draft a QB.
IMO it would be much easier for this team to become a potential SB contender by further building on its key strength (defense) and potential strength (running game).
I would draft "highest impact" players first and foremost (any position) but with a focus, if possible on CB's, Safeties and offensive linemen.
QB drafting is a dangerous game and you have to spend a lot of draft capital to bring in a guy that you hope doesn't become a starter any time soon. Stud linemen can add to a team right away and are FAR more predictable to evaluate.
As much as I hate to say it - I would also consider taking a look at a kid like Carlos Hyde. OSU's offense would be pathetic without that guy - he is a beast. The Bengals could use a bruiser back to complement Bernard and I am not sure how much mileage law firm has left on his tires.
RE: Andy Dalton sucks - SuperFlyBCat - 12-04-2013 05:15 PM
(12-04-2013 05:03 PM)Eastside_J Wrote:(12-04-2013 03:17 PM)Overrated Wrote: The nature of that article is a big dilemma for the Bengals this offseason. As Sando notes, the Bengals are drafting from a position of strength, but only to a degree. This is said to be a strong qb draft (although Mariotta staying weakens it at the top), but you have to strongly believe that Dalton can't get it done to draft a qb with an early pick, even if he doesn't play right away. The nature of free agency hits teams the hardest as they start to perform really well. While the Bengals have locked down some of their big pieces, others are going to want to get paid this off season or soon after. The Bengals will obviously not be able to pay all of them. Which is where the draft comes into play. As we saw last year, the Bengals prepared for the possible departure of Michael Johnson by drafting Margus Hunt a year early. Using a first or second round draft pick on a qb will take away the ability to fill another hole. So while drafting another quarterback may not mean giving up on Dalton entirely, it would have to be seen as near the end unless he dramatically changed in the eyes of the Bengals. Otherwise drafting a player that isn't going to play soon for a team that is in win now mode seems like a poor allocation of a finite amount of resources.
You are going to laugh - as much as I have criticized Dalton, I wouldn't draft a QB.
IMO it would be much easier for this team to become a potential SB contender by further building on its key strength (defense) and potential strength (running game).
I would draft "highest impact" players first and foremost (any position) but with a focus, if possible on CB's, Safeties and offensive linemen.
QB drafting is a dangerous game and you have to spend a lot of draft capital to bring in a guy that you hope doesn't become a starter any time soon. Stud linemen can add to a team right away and are FAR more predictable to evaluate.
As much as I hate to say it - I would also consider taking a look at a kid like Carlos Hyde. OSU's offense would be pathetic without that guy - he is a beast. The Bengals could use a bruiser back to complement Bernard and I am not sure how much mileage law firm has left on his tires.
Yes it is. You can bring in a Garrett Glilbert or Brendon Kay undrafted.