+- CSNbbs (https://csnbbs.com)
+-- Forum: Active Boards (/forum-769.html)
+--- Forum: AACbbs (/forum-460.html)
+---- Forum: Members (/forum-401.html)
+----- Forum: Rice (/forum-444.html)
+----- Thread: NCAA Baseball Trends (/thread-638007.html)
NCAA Baseball Trends - 13thOwl - 06-27-2013 09:55 AM
With the change in the bats several years ago, we have seen the rise of small ball. Many teams employ the use of the sacrifice bunt more than we have seen since the introduction of the metal bat to college baseball. I don't know this, but I would also guess that stolen bases are also on the rise. Frankly I am running out of time before my meeting to look it up.
The thing I noticed that the ESPN announcers kept hammering on was the "elevation" of the fastball. On 0-2 counts Orel Hershiser and Kyle Peterson loved it when the pitcher would go upstairs with a fastball instead of burying the curveball in the dirt. I can't recall who the announcers were in the Oregon and NC State series, but I do recall them liking the strategy of "climbing the ladder" or "elevating" the fastball.
It seemed that many years ago the pitching pattern of away, away, away migrated from the West Coast. My guess is that the "elevated" fastball more of a Southern thing.
The book on Rice is to have good discipline when down 0-2 and not fish at the next two curveballs in the dirt. Some teams have more success than others. Obviously if your pitcher throws a sinking fastball and a wicked slider, elevating the fastball may leave a pitch belt high over the plate - probably not a good thing.
Since the ballparks are playing bigger, some of the worry of leaving the ball up should be alleviated. Sure the hitter can still probably see the ball better, but he also probably cannot yank it out of the ballpark.
I am not advocating a change in what has worked very well at Rice. I believe the idea of having three chances at a perfect pitch sends a positive, non--stressful message. I am asking if y'all have noticed the trend, if you have an opinion on it, and maybe if you can hazard a guess where it became back in vogue. This would be a great conversation with Coach Graham, but it is very doubtful that I will be able to make it to Reckling anytime soon, so I am hoping to have it with y'all.
BTW, this is not an endorsement of the baseball acumen of the ESPN baseball staff...The last Rice Owl that used the "elevated" fastball to my memory was CSC.
Thoughts?
RE: NCAA Baseball Trends - waltgreenberg - 06-27-2013 10:09 AM
(06-27-2013 09:55 AM)13thOwl Wrote: With the change in the bats several years ago, we have seen the rise of small ball. Many teams employ the use of the sacrifice bunt more than we have seen since the introduction of the metal bat to college baseball. I don't know this, but I would also guess that stolen bases are also on the rise. Frankly I am running out of time before my meeting to look it up.
The thing I noticed that the ESPN announcers kept hammering on was the "elevation" of the fastball. On 0-2 counts Orel Hershiser and Kyle Peterson loved it when the pitcher would go upstairs with a fastball instead of burying the curveball in the dirt. I can't recall who the announcers were in the Oregon and NC State series, but I do recall them liking the strategy of "climbing the ladder" or "elevating" the fastball.
It seemed that many years ago the pitching pattern of away, away, away migrated from the West Coast. My guess is that the "elevated" fastball more of a Southern thing.
The book on Rice is to have good discipline when down 0-2 and not fish at the next two curveballs in the dirt. Some teams have more success than others. Obviously if your pitcher throws a sinking fastball and a wicked slider, elevating the fastball may leave a pitch belt high over the plate - probably not a good thing.
Since the ballparks are playing bigger, some of the worry of leaving the ball up should be alleviated. Sure the hitter can still probably see the ball better, but he also probably cannot yank it out of the ballpark.
I am not advocating a change in what has worked very well at Rice. I believe the idea of having three chances at a perfect pitch sends a positive, non--stressful message. I am asking if y'all have noticed the trend, if you have an opinion on it, and maybe if you can hazard a guess where it became back in vogue. This would be a great conversation with Coach Graham, but it is very doubtful that I will be able to make it to Reckling anytime soon, so I am hoping to have it with y'all.
BTW, this is not an endorsement of the baseball acumen of the ESPN baseball staff...The last Rice Owl that used the "elevated" fastball to my memory was CSC.
Thoughts?
I think it's more a function of the types of pitchers you have. CSC didn't have a particularly effective breaking ball and his fastball was "sneaky fast" due to his high leg kick and delivery. Consequently, going upstairs when ahead in the count was his best play. For guys such as Berry, Ojala, Kubitza and Lemond- all of whom had devastatingly nasty breaking balls-- the elevated fastball was a much more risky play than going to with the hard curve or slider down and away.
Having said that, Stephens did go upstairs to get strikeouts on occassion; especially when his curveball was working so effectively, and I would imagine Lemond, with his mid-90s heater, will be doing so more frequently going forward (particularly if he's moves to a starting role next year).
RE: NCAA Baseball Trends - Hambone10 - 06-27-2013 11:38 AM
I've noticed a similar trend 13th, but don't watch enough to be able to comment. My layman's view was that if Rice pitchers got ahead and had a good curve or slider, you could pretty well count on them to bury the next pitch or two. It SEEMS we had more than one WP or PB on 0-2 or 1-2 counts. It seems that the teams that did well against us worked a lot of 0-2 counts towards full. It seems that Kubitza, Lemond and Stephens were all "victims" of this... and when they were effective was when they could throw the breaking ball exactly where they wanted... which not only gave them a chance of catching the plate or the knees, but lulled the ump into calling a few strikes just off the plate or below the knees. Sort of like the old Atlanta Braves pitchers used to do to the Astros. The pitch was 3 inches outside, but because you threw the ball right there every time, the ump called them strikes.
Having said that, I recall lots of big hits on 0-2 counts as well and complaints about catching too much of the plate when ahead... maybe because they hung the curve ball or something? THAT would be interesting to know. Were the 0-2 1-2 hits the results of mistakes in execution (catching too much plate or hanging it) or in strategy (threw a fastball when a curve would have been smarter)?
RE: NCAA Baseball Trends - Almadenmike - 06-27-2013 12:51 PM
(06-27-2013 11:38 AM)Hambone10 Wrote: ... when they were effective was when they could throw the breaking ball exactly where they wanted... which not only gave them a chance of catching the plate or the knees, but lulled the ump into calling a few strikes just off the plate or below the knees. Sort of like the old Atlanta Braves pitchers used to do to the Astros. The pitch was 3 inches outside, but because you threw the ball right there every time, the ump called them strikes.
LOL. One of the San Francisco Giants' broadcasters, former pitcher Mike Krukow, said exactly the same thing regarding the Giants' experiences against Maddux, Glavine et al. Earlier this year Mike had an animated discussion about the hypnotized umps with one of those Atlanta aces, John Smoltz, who now has a similar job on Braves radio & TV.
RE: NCAA Baseball Trends - louismcc - 06-27-2013 01:09 PM
There are lots of strategies that can be applied in this age of the dead bats. Having a good breaking ball that a pitcher can throw for strikes lets him come back with a high fastball without as much worry that such a pitch will get deposited in the stands. Most attempts to hit a ball above the zone will result in at best a warning track flyball out. In the past the fastball set up the curve in the dirt, but now the reverse will work as well and perhaps even work better.