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+---- Thread: OT: Is college a scam? (/thread-590085.html)
OT: Is college a scam? - C2__ - 09-26-2012 09:49 PM
Except for certain careers which can't be achieved without a degree, why do people still go to college now days in the information age when it's a click away? And yes, I did go to it but as the technology shift had just came into focus.
This was spurred on by a version of this picture, which I found funny and true:
![[Image: 24537570.jpg]](http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/24537570.jpg)
I know employers are looking for a college degree now days. That's not up for debate, I'm not arguing against that. I'm asking if college is a scam now days.
200-300 years ago, it was harder to communicate and travel and most people lived in rural areas with little to no formal education. It only made sense, if you wanted to get a higher education, to attend a college or university because that's where knowledge, both in the form of books and instruction, as well as for the research that was conducted and expanded for individuals and society in general. Even after the Industrial Revolution, communication still was an issue and travel was only gradually getting easier.
Fast forward to today. We have the internet with almost an infinite amount of info on a number of subjects. Perhaps some of it is misinfo or disinfo but regardless information is easier to obtain than ever for one to try and discern at their own discretion. People of all backgrounds write books of any subject matter imaginable and they're pretty much all available in mass consumption.
Some get scholarships so going to college on a free ride is understandable to a degree (no pun intended) but is it worth the time? Sometimes, yes but for others no. Then of course, you have the average person spending and/or even worse borrowing tens if not hundreds of thousands of dollars with the hope of getting a good job, at least one worth the time and money. At the biggest schools, you don't even see the professor (who does so much research and hands off work to the grad assistant) and it's hard to get into a nurturing environment where, like high school, a professor may have reasonable one-on-one time with you. How much can you learn, even if you try your hardest, if you have lots of question and but lack direction? Athletes, who have to travel often and miss class, have it so much worse.
I'll try to wrap this up because it's long enough but why don't more people at least start at a JUCO , then go to the 4 year schools? Or perhaps consider a trade school, which can be cheaper and get you out and making money quicker? And for some, what's the point of going to college, spending both valuable time and money when all you want to do is mess around anyways (i.e. partying, drinking, Greek organizations, sex, sports, etc...)? Because of this idea of people going for these reasons, employers are starting to see beyond someone having a certain major and even having gone to a prestigious school because it doesn't prove they learned much there or they may not be qualified for the job. The grading system in the US has been a joke because it allows people who didn't make the grade in reality to pass anyways (and I benefited from this sometimes too).
I'm thinking, if you want to get out and meet people, go out and meet them. If in a small town/rural area go to the city and get a job, place to stay and meet people. If you want the college lifestyle, go live near a college and take part in the social life. The Greek organization thing is tricky, so you may have to bite the bullet for a semester to do that or have them illegally bring you in.
If you want to support a certain college, then support them without enrolling unless you really want to or need it (sometimes enroll at a nearby school that offers what you want for cheaper). It's the milk without the cow, no strings attached. Most people don't know what they really want to do in life at 18, I know I didn't, so why go and get into lots of debt trying to find your way? Lots of people change their major after a year or two as well.That's all I have on it for now, I know it's a lot to read, what do you think?
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - Dracorex - 09-26-2012 09:53 PM
every major's terrible
I'd post the image but it is just too large click here. It's a comic on this topic.
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - Cougar King - 09-26-2012 09:57 PM
I thought this was a sports forum...
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - Dracorex - 09-26-2012 10:04 PM
(09-26-2012 09:57 PM)Eagle Green Wrote: I thought this was a sports forum...
It's Wednesday, sports aren't going on right now.
Baseball picks back up in a week and a half.
Football is off until tomorrow night. You got a better topic?
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - ECUPirated - 09-26-2012 10:09 PM
How bout is the BCS a scam?
College is a choice.
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - GreenMississippi - 09-26-2012 10:13 PM
Yeah, I can't make it to the Reddit front page either. Much easier to get attention from this crowd.
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - TheEastisPurple - 09-26-2012 10:15 PM
I get what you are saying but I don't think scam is quite the right word. You can and always have been able to learn whatever you want on your own though it has gotten much easier with technology like you mentioned. Depending on the major some degrees are pretty worthless. But with accreditation for some programs it lets employers know what they are getting. How would you know you could hire someone if they didn't have much or any experience and said they taught themselves.
I know this doesn't 100% go against what you are arguing. I guess you could have standardized tests for all these degrees that you pass to prove your competence to employers regardless of whether or not you went to college. But I would rather not be under the care of a doctor who walked up to a practice and said "hey I taught myself, give me a job" and they responded "herp derp sure" if there wasn't any kind of degree or test or whatever that was controlled by competent people to prove that he/she had the necessary knowledge.
The department I am in has professors with pretty much a minimum of 10 years of actual experience in the field I am going into and have a wealth of first hand knowledge and are able to tell us what things are the most important. I could have learned everything from other sources IF I knew what I was supposed to learn and what to give extra attention.
I do think college is in some cases over valued or seen as the only way to a certain career when it is not.
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - C2__ - 09-26-2012 10:18 PM
(09-26-2012 09:57 PM)Eagle Green Wrote: I thought this was a sports forum...
Let's see, by a glance at the main C-USA board, I saw:
3 NCAA '13 (X-Box and PS3) Dynasty threads
A thread honoring recently passed Andy Williams
The soccer thread
A random video thread
A thread on Survivor: Philippines
And the long running word association thread.
And this is of course just on the first page. Why pick on this thread?
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - Kronke - 09-26-2012 10:31 PM
College is about more than the theory/applications you learn; i.e. communication and presentation skills, networking, etc.
With that said, an argument can be made for many of the majors you'll find in Liberal Arts departments.
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - C2__ - 09-26-2012 10:36 PM
(09-26-2012 10:09 PM)ECUPirated Wrote: How bout is the BCS a scam?
College is a choice.
True, but there is an amazing amount of peer pressure to go to college from the moment you get to pre-school. While a choice, people feel to get a good paying job they have no choice but to get a diploma just for the sake of getting a piece of paper, which doesn't even prove you earned that grade and are ready for certain professions. But it matters not because now days it's all they want to see.
I originally didn't know what I wanted to do (I started as a Criminal Justice major based on some advice) but later studied to become a print journalist. Except for the fact that a job may not be forthcoming and thus the student loans would be an issue, why shouldn't I have quit school and just taken a few internships?
Oh, I know why, because so many internships, especially the high profile ones I had in mind, required you to be fulfilling college credit, hence the pattern and so-called "need" to be in college. I could have developed as a writer without the need of taking the BS classes I was taking in undergrad which even if they were helpful I could have learned about independently and/or through experience for free or the price of the book, the time reading it and through the various contacts I'd make throughout my career.
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - TheEastisPurple - 09-26-2012 10:38 PM
(09-26-2012 10:31 PM)Kronke Wrote: College is about more than the theory/applications you learn; i.e. communication and presentation skills, networking, etc.
With that said, an argument can be made for many of the majors you'll find in Liberal Arts departments.
+1
There are other ways to do it but college is by far the most efficient for a lot of majors.
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - C2__ - 09-26-2012 11:57 PM
There's no substitute for hands-on training as well as many other aspects that can come with college. And certainly, as I said, some occupations like a medical doctor, engineer, architect, etc... require years of study. What I don't like is the mass produced, generic "McEducation" people "have" to get when in a perfect world, which wasn't so robotic in believing a degree meant everything, people would not need it. It may not even be the right information that you learn (for example, certain philosophies and curriculum contrast greatly depending on the school) and it doesn't even give you experience lots of times. In some cases, as in the case of schooling in general, it's just regurgitating what you were taught as best as possible whether or not it's true, whether or not you really grasped it or if you even learned it at all (let's not even touch those who cheat or do other unethical things to get a grade, and yes at times I've been guilty as charged).
As I said, in journalism, why the bleep would I need a degree now, especially with technology available that can rival the pros? Shouldn't my talent speak for itself to the point where at least someone can reel me in and help craft my work with pay as an intern or even with on the job training?
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - WalkThePlank - 09-27-2012 12:44 AM
I would say it's more about where you go nowadays versus actually being in college.
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - C2__ - 09-27-2012 01:40 AM
I disagree. It's more about what you make out of your experience that's best. Sure it looks nice to have a journalism degree from Northwestern because that's one of the best in the entire country for the field (let alone the school itself) but at smaller schools not necessarily known for journalism you might be able to get more hands on experience in a less competitive environment.
I don't understand getting a degree from an Ivy League school or somewhere similar/as expensive unless you get a completely free ride. Sure, there may be some of the best minds in the world there and naturally people will be in awe of your degree should you complete school at one of those schools but again it comes down to whether it was really worth the time and most importantly, investment. If yes, it can open many doors I admit but if you study English for example, does a Shakespeare sonnet look much different than it does at Diploma Mill U? Or the work of Edgar Allen Poe or Ernest Hemmingway? Granted, the literature to be deciphered may be at the highest level in the world and the most time intensive of any school but how much do you really get out of that? Is the course work for English at New Mexico State that much of a step down that you couldn't get a notch or two below what Harvard expects but still feel good about what was required of you, especially if you gave 100%?
Like I said, some majors and some schools in particular have experts that people come to that school specifically to learn from or a high reputation not to mention that some jobs just require lots of education but I still say the culture of employers expecting a college education as some sort of validation for a threshold of how smart or measuring the competency of someone is what makes the culture of college education a scam.
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - Chappy - 09-27-2012 05:53 AM
College is not a scam, but the mentality that was pushed for the last two decades - that EVERYONE should go to college - was a bad idea.
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - GoApps70 - 09-27-2012 07:13 AM
Life's a scam.
Just depends on what part of the matrix you happen to be part of.
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - ShoreBuc - 09-27-2012 07:16 AM
College for the most part is a for profit business. Our beloved sports have played a huge role in the ever increasing tuition with student fee's going through the roof. I am just glad I went to ECU at a time where it cost me $20k to graduate in 5yrs with two worthless majors. I am also happy it was a time where my employer at the time Nations Bank did not even ask me where I graduated or what my degree was in it was just merely checking the box on the application as a College Degree holder.
I do think that colleges should be required to have disclosure documents updated yearly showing you the cost of your 4yr major, the percentage of graduates who were hired, time from graduation to hire and average income of that major. I know all that information is out there for anybody to go look up but a lot of parents and students just blindly go through the college years hoping to find themselves. I know I will take what I have learned from the process and when my soon to be 5yr old is picking colleges, I will have a come to Jesus with him. If he is not picking a career major that has some money potential then it will have a profound impact on what college I am willing to pay for him to go to. If he is just flat out passionate about a worthless degree program then I will still pay for it but it will certainly not be at a Private College for over $100k.
I think at the end of the day, Colleges are more then happy to take students and their money and hand out whatever degree they are looking for or if College is just 4-5yrs of partying, watching football and then moving back in the parents basement they are more then willing to help with that. Like most things in life it is up to the individual or the parents to research all this stuff and try and not piss their money away.
I have listened to many business leaders who feel the current model of the College Education does not produce a workforce prepared for the task they need them to do so it would not surprise me if by the time my 5yr old is getting ready for College if the curriculum process has changed dramatically or if there are specific technical schools that bypass College and prepare you for a Career field that are booming...kind of like a Junior College or Technical College on Steroids.
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - Motown Bronco - 09-27-2012 07:49 AM
(09-27-2012 05:53 AM)Chappy Wrote: College is not a scam, but the mentality that was pushed for the last two decades - that EVERYONE should go to college - was a bad idea.
Nail -> Head
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - VA49er - 09-27-2012 07:55 AM
(09-27-2012 05:53 AM)Chappy Wrote: College is not a scam, but the mentality that was pushed for the last two decades - that EVERYONE should go to college - was a bad idea.
Glad I read this as I was getting ready to post the exact same thing. I agree 100%. Everyone is not college material nor needs to go to college. Also, folks really need to think before choosing a major.
RE: OT: Is college a scam? - BlazerJoe - 09-27-2012 08:05 AM
(09-27-2012 07:49 AM)Motown Bronco Wrote:(09-27-2012 05:53 AM)Chappy Wrote: College is not a scam, but the mentality that was pushed for the last two decades - that EVERYONE should go to college - was a bad idea.
Nail -> Head
We have a winner!
![[Image: uH8ID.gif]](http://i.imgur.com/uH8ID.gif)