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RE: Notre Dame Moving Closer to BCS Irrelevence--Sporting News - He1nousOne - 03-24-2012 12:33 AM
(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote:(03-23-2012 12:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:(03-23-2012 12:23 PM)buckaineer Wrote: Curious to hear what Terry D or anyone else thinks ND will do if the championship moves to conference champions only format?
He already stated it in this very thread. It doesn't even need to be stated. If the rest of the nation cuts off Notre Dame by making it conference champions only then Notre Dame will have no choice but to choose a conference.
I have only ever made one guarantee and that is if we move to this playoff and it is based on conference champions that there will be an Independents clause.
That isn't just about Notre Dame either. Any program in a lesser conference can always be responded to that they could go Independent and fashion their schedule to give them the best chance of getting high enough in the rankings to make it into the Tournament if it is that big of a deal to them.
It is an instant win clause in any legal case against this new system.
If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.
Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.
RE: Notre Dame Moving Closer to BCS Irrelevence--Sporting News - wildthing202 - 03-24-2012 01:43 AM
(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:I doubt that flies since only a minority of conferences would even care at this point. Right away the PAC and SEC(plus the smaller conferences) couldn't give a damn, the ACC would do it just for the fact that they are the odds on favorite to get ND since the ACC sponsors all the sports that ND has for the most part unlike the B1G and Big 12. ND hates the B1G so they would be just wasting their time and the Big 12 is never going to be a realistic option since it is known that ND wants an East coast presence that the Big 12 & B1G can't give them. The BE is not an option otherwise they would be in the conference already.(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote:(03-23-2012 12:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:(03-23-2012 12:23 PM)buckaineer Wrote: Curious to hear what Terry D or anyone else thinks ND will do if the championship moves to conference champions only format?
He already stated it in this very thread. It doesn't even need to be stated. If the rest of the nation cuts off Notre Dame by making it conference champions only then Notre Dame will have no choice but to choose a conference.
I have only ever made one guarantee and that is if we move to this playoff and it is based on conference champions that there will be an Independents clause.
That isn't just about Notre Dame either. Any program in a lesser conference can always be responded to that they could go Independent and fashion their schedule to give them the best chance of getting high enough in the rankings to make it into the Tournament if it is that big of a deal to them.
It is an instant win clause in any legal case against this new system.
If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.
Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.
So anything that would cost conferences millions just for a pipe dream is not a realistic option.
RE: Notre Dame Moving Closer to BCS Irrelevence--Sporting News - buckaineer - 03-24-2012 07:18 AM
(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote:(03-23-2012 12:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:(03-23-2012 12:23 PM)buckaineer Wrote: Curious to hear what Terry D or anyone else thinks ND will do if the championship moves to conference champions only format?
He already stated it in this very thread. It doesn't even need to be stated. If the rest of the nation cuts off Notre Dame by making it conference champions only then Notre Dame will have no choice but to choose a conference.
I have only ever made one guarantee and that is if we move to this playoff and it is based on conference champions that there will be an Independents clause.
That isn't just about Notre Dame either. Any program in a lesser conference can always be responded to that they could go Independent and fashion their schedule to give them the best chance of getting high enough in the rankings to make it into the Tournament if it is that big of a deal to them.
It is an instant win clause in any legal case against this new system.
If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.
Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.
He1nousOne-I responded to your suggestion that if they decide on champions only, they'll make an independents clause. Not really sure what you are trying to say with your response here-it doesn't appear to address the "independents clause" you are putting forth. I don't believe there is going to be an independents clause at all-because it doesn't benefit the parties involved except for a Notre Dame. Simply goes back to--why would the power conferences go for that? I don't believe they will.
RE: Notre Dame Moving Closer to BCS Irrelevence--Sporting News - buckaineer - 03-24-2012 07:23 AM
(03-24-2012 01:43 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:I doubt that flies since only a minority of conferences would even care at this point. Right away the PAC and SEC(plus the smaller conferences) couldn't give a damn, the ACC would do it just for the fact that they are the odds on favorite to get ND since the ACC sponsors all the sports that ND has for the most part unlike the B1G and Big 12. ND hates the B1G so they would be just wasting their time and the Big 12 is never going to be a realistic option since it is known that ND wants an East coast presence that the Big 12 & B1G can't give them. The BE is not an option otherwise they would be in the conference already.(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote:(03-23-2012 12:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:(03-23-2012 12:23 PM)buckaineer Wrote: Curious to hear what Terry D or anyone else thinks ND will do if the championship moves to conference champions only format?
He already stated it in this very thread. It doesn't even need to be stated. If the rest of the nation cuts off Notre Dame by making it conference champions only then Notre Dame will have no choice but to choose a conference.
I have only ever made one guarantee and that is if we move to this playoff and it is based on conference champions that there will be an Independents clause.
That isn't just about Notre Dame either. Any program in a lesser conference can always be responded to that they could go Independent and fashion their schedule to give them the best chance of getting high enough in the rankings to make it into the Tournament if it is that big of a deal to them.
It is an instant win clause in any legal case against this new system.
If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.
Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.
So anything that would cost conferences millions just for a pipe dream is not a realistic option.
ND doesn't just want an east coast presence, they want a national presence. With the proper additions, the BIG 12 is the conference most able to provide this.
RE: Notre Dame Moving Closer to BCS Irrelevence--Sporting News - TerryD - 03-24-2012 09:19 AM
(03-24-2012 07:23 AM)buckaineer Wrote:(03-24-2012 01:43 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:I doubt that flies since only a minority of conferences would even care at this point. Right away the PAC and SEC(plus the smaller conferences) couldn't give a damn, the ACC would do it just for the fact that they are the odds on favorite to get ND since the ACC sponsors all the sports that ND has for the most part unlike the B1G and Big 12. ND hates the B1G so they would be just wasting their time and the Big 12 is never going to be a realistic option since it is known that ND wants an East coast presence that the Big 12 & B1G can't give them. The BE is not an option otherwise they would be in the conference already.(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote:(03-23-2012 12:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: He already stated it in this very thread. It doesn't even need to be stated. If the rest of the nation cuts off Notre Dame by making it conference champions only then Notre Dame will have no choice but to choose a conference.
I have only ever made one guarantee and that is if we move to this playoff and it is based on conference champions that there will be an Independents clause.
That isn't just about Notre Dame either. Any program in a lesser conference can always be responded to that they could go Independent and fashion their schedule to give them the best chance of getting high enough in the rankings to make it into the Tournament if it is that big of a deal to them.
It is an instant win clause in any legal case against this new system.
If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.
Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.
So anything that would cost conferences millions just for a pipe dream is not a realistic option.
ND doesn't just want an east coast presence, they want a national presence. With the proper additions, the BIG 12 is the conference most able to provide this.
Buck, you consider ND irrelevant then you "pimp" them to join the Big 12 because you know that they would be a tremendous addition and would benefit WVU.
ND is not going to join a conference in the prairie heartland of America unless it is a hybrid deal.
You would go bananas if that happened. To see WVU leave one hybrid conference to get away from ND only to see their new conference welcome ND for all sports but football would be ironic.
(I don't see ND doing this, either, but it is fun to think about, just to see the angst it would create).
I know some Big 12 fans have a pipe dream concerning the "proper additions" (Florida State, Clemson, etc..). There is no evidence that it is likely to occur except on blogs and messages boards.
If.....if ND was "forced" (Yes, it would be an unwilling addition to a conference at gunpoint--despite your dislike for that term) to join a football conference, it would likely be the ACC, not the Big 12.
I also think that you are wrong in that there will be no four conference only champions playoff in the foreseeable future.
In my opinion, ND will likely remain a football independent, renew the NBC contract before the 2015 for more money and help broker an NBC/Comcast contract for the Big East.
RE: Notre Dame Moving Closer to BCS Irrelevence--Sporting News - panite - 03-24-2012 09:25 AM
(03-24-2012 07:23 AM)buckaineer Wrote:(03-24-2012 01:43 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:I doubt that flies since only a minority of conferences would even care at this point. Right away the PAC and SEC(plus the smaller conferences) couldn't give a damn, the ACC would do it just for the fact that they are the odds on favorite to get ND since the ACC sponsors all the sports that ND has for the most part unlike the B1G and Big 12. ND hates the B1G so they would be just wasting their time and the Big 12 is never going to be a realistic option since it is known that ND wants an East coast presence that the Big 12 & B1G can't give them. The BE is not an option otherwise they would be in the conference already.(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote:(03-23-2012 12:26 PM)He1nousOne Wrote: He already stated it in this very thread. It doesn't even need to be stated. If the rest of the nation cuts off Notre Dame by making it conference champions only then Notre Dame will have no choice but to choose a conference.
I have only ever made one guarantee and that is if we move to this playoff and it is based on conference champions that there will be an Independents clause.
That isn't just about Notre Dame either. Any program in a lesser conference can always be responded to that they could go Independent and fashion their schedule to give them the best chance of getting high enough in the rankings to make it into the Tournament if it is that big of a deal to them.
It is an instant win clause in any legal case against this new system.
If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.
Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.
So anything that would cost conferences millions just for a pipe dream is not a realistic option.
ND doesn't just want an east coast presence, they want a national presence. With the proper additions, the BIG 12 is the conference most able to provide this.
I think ND would join the P-12 before the B-12 because their ties to USC, Stanford, and Washington. Their only real tie to the B-12 is Texas.
ND Conference choices if they decide to join one for all sports:
1. ACC - they always seem to negotiate with the ACC in times of realignment. The new ACC will keep them on the east coast with Cuse, Pitt, BC, and one of Rutgers or UConn who will join with them. It also keeps them aligned with similar academic schools in NC such UNC, Wake, and Duke. It also keeps them aligned with Miami, Florida St, and Georgia Tech who rotate in and out of their schedule. They would then rotate Michigan, Michigan St, and Purdue in and out of their Midwest schedule and find ways to keep USC, Stanford, and Navy on the schedule.
2. B-10 with Navy, USC, Pitt, and a NE team rotated through the schedule along with a Southern ACC team on occasion.
3. P-12 - Reasons stated above.
4. B-12 - Texas connection, USC / Stanford west coast, Michigan / Michigan St / Purdue mid west, Pitt / Navy east coast.
RE: Notre Dame Moving Closer to BCS Irrelevence--Sporting News - TerryD - 03-24-2012 09:57 AM
(03-24-2012 09:25 AM)panite Wrote:(03-24-2012 07:23 AM)buckaineer Wrote:(03-24-2012 01:43 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:I doubt that flies since only a minority of conferences would even care at this point. Right away the PAC and SEC(plus the smaller conferences) couldn't give a damn, the ACC would do it just for the fact that they are the odds on favorite to get ND since the ACC sponsors all the sports that ND has for the most part unlike the B1G and Big 12. ND hates the B1G so they would be just wasting their time and the Big 12 is never going to be a realistic option since it is known that ND wants an East coast presence that the Big 12 & B1G can't give them. The BE is not an option otherwise they would be in the conference already.(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote: If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.
Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.
So anything that would cost conferences millions just for a pipe dream is not a realistic option.
ND doesn't just want an east coast presence, they want a national presence. With the proper additions, the BIG 12 is the conference most able to provide this.
I think ND would join the P-12 before the B-12 because their ties to USC, Stanford, and Washington. Their only real tie to the B-12 is Texas.
ND Conference choices if they decide to join one for all sports:
1. ACC - they always seem to negotiate with the ACC in times of realignment. The new ACC will keep them on the east coast with Cuse, Pitt, BC, and one of Rutgers or UConn who will join with them. It also keeps them aligned with similar academic schools in NC such UNC, Wake, and Duke. It also keeps them aligned with Miami, Florida St, and Georgia Tech who rotate in and out of their schedule. They would then rotate Michigan, Michigan St, and Purdue in and out of their Midwest schedule and find ways to keep USC, Stanford, and Navy on the schedule.
2. B-10 with Navy, USC, Pitt, and a NE team rotated through the schedule along with a Southern ACC team on occasion.
3. P-12 - Reasons stated above.
4. B-12 - Texas connection, USC / Stanford west coast, Michigan / Michigan St / Purdue mid west, Pitt / Navy east coast.
Scratch the Big Ten from that list, Panite. The ND alumni base and big boosters would rather drop football than join that conference.
It would be a no sale among the voters who count at ND.
RE: Notre Dame Moving Closer to BCS Irrelevence--Sporting News - XLance - 03-24-2012 11:21 AM
(03-24-2012 09:25 AM)panite Wrote:(03-24-2012 07:23 AM)buckaineer Wrote:(03-24-2012 01:43 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote:I doubt that flies since only a minority of conferences would even care at this point. Right away the PAC and SEC(plus the smaller conferences) couldn't give a damn, the ACC would do it just for the fact that they are the odds on favorite to get ND since the ACC sponsors all the sports that ND has for the most part unlike the B1G and Big 12. ND hates the B1G so they would be just wasting their time and the Big 12 is never going to be a realistic option since it is known that ND wants an East coast presence that the Big 12 & B1G can't give them. The BE is not an option otherwise they would be in the conference already.(03-23-2012 11:05 PM)buckaineer Wrote: If Im the BIG, PAC, ACC, SEC, BIG 12--why in the world would I make an independents clause? So I have to battle through a conference to make the playoff-but I just award ND or whoever a spot in the playoff? Why would they agree to this? No, if they make the deal conference champions that is all it will be. If they make it the top 4 teams it will be the top four, not the top 3 and then a special spot for a ND or someone else if they are ranked x spots around the top 4 or whatever.
Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.
So anything that would cost conferences millions just for a pipe dream is not a realistic option.
ND doesn't just want an east coast presence, they want a national presence. With the proper additions, the BIG 12 is the conference most able to provide this.
I think ND would join the P-12 before the B-12 because their ties to USC, Stanford, and Washington. Their only real tie to the B-12 is Texas.
ND Conference choices if they decide to join one for all sports:
1. ACC - they always seem to negotiate with the ACC in times of realignment. The new ACC will keep them on the east coast with Cuse, Pitt, BC, and one of Rutgers or UConn who will join with them. It also keeps them aligned with similar academic schools in NC such UNC, Wake, and Duke. It also keeps them aligned with Miami, Florida St, and Georgia Tech who rotate in and out of their schedule. They would then rotate Michigan, Michigan St, and Purdue in and out of their Midwest schedule and find ways to keep USC, Stanford, and Navy on the schedule.
2. B-10 with Navy, USC, Pitt, and a NE team rotated through the schedule along with a Southern ACC team on occasion.
3. P-12 - Reasons stated above.
4. B-12 - Texas connection, USC / Stanford west coast, Michigan / Michigan St / Purdue mid west, Pitt / Navy east coast.
RE: #1 the ACC
If and that's a big IF, Notre Dame does choose to join the ACC, I think that Navy would be looked at before Rutgers or especially UConn.
Navy has agreed to venture out with the Big East, so they have demonstrated that they are not opposed to conference affiliation.
RE: Notre Dame Moving Closer to BCS Irrelevence--Sporting News - bitcruncher - 03-24-2012 12:10 PM
Terry, it's a good thing you aren't tired of having this discussion. It happens about this time every year...
RE: Notre Dame Moving Closer to BCS Irrelevence--Sporting News - panite - 03-24-2012 01:36 PM
(03-24-2012 09:57 AM)TerryD Wrote:(03-24-2012 09:25 AM)panite Wrote:(03-24-2012 07:23 AM)buckaineer Wrote:(03-24-2012 01:43 AM)wildthing202 Wrote:(03-24-2012 12:33 AM)He1nousOne Wrote: Once again, the threat of Notre Dame joining a conference is greater than the threat of them actually reaching this tournament as an Independent. I do not know how I can make it any clearer than that.I doubt that flies since only a minority of conferences would even care at this point. Right away the PAC and SEC(plus the smaller conferences) couldn't give a damn, the ACC would do it just for the fact that they are the odds on favorite to get ND since the ACC sponsors all the sports that ND has for the most part unlike the B1G and Big 12. ND hates the B1G so they would be just wasting their time and the Big 12 is never going to be a realistic option since it is known that ND wants an East coast presence that the Big 12 & B1G can't give them. The BE is not an option otherwise they would be in the conference already.
So anything that would cost conferences millions just for a pipe dream is not a realistic option.
ND doesn't just want an east coast presence, they want a national presence. With the proper additions, the BIG 12 is the conference most able to provide this.
I think ND would join the P-12 before the B-12 because their ties to USC, Stanford, and Washington. Their only real tie to the B-12 is Texas.
ND Conference choices if they decide to join one for all sports:
1. ACC - they always seem to negotiate with the ACC in times of realignment. The new ACC will keep them on the east coast with Cuse, Pitt, BC, and one of Rutgers or UConn who will join with them. It also keeps them aligned with similar academic schools in NC such UNC, Wake, and Duke. It also keeps them aligned with Miami, Florida St, and Georgia Tech who rotate in and out of their schedule. They would then rotate Michigan, Michigan St, and Purdue in and out of their Midwest schedule and find ways to keep USC, Stanford, and Navy on the schedule.
2. B-10 with Navy, USC, Pitt, and a NE team rotated through the schedule along with a Southern ACC team on occasion.
3. P-12 - Reasons stated above.
4. B-12 - Texas connection, USC / Stanford west coast, Michigan / Michigan St / Purdue mid west, Pitt / Navy east coast.
Scratch the Big Ten from that list, Panite. The ND alumni base and big boosters would rather drop football than join that conference.
It would be a no sale among the voters who count at ND.
I could believe that Terry and that is another of the reasons that I put them in the ACC first. However most of this is irrelevant any way because I agree with you that ND isn't joining a conference any time soon if ever. If they do they a majority of the alumni won't go down without a last ditch drawn out fight.
