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Uh oh...Villanova's vote delayed - Printable Version

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RE: Uh oh...Villanova's vote delayed - Wedge - 04-11-2011 11:33 AM

(04-11-2011 05:43 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  
(04-11-2011 01:07 AM)animus Wrote:  All you CUSA fans that are candidates needs to be thanking Pitt right about now.

I have to think its more than just Pitt. It has to be at least half the 8 to be in the same boat to have enough momentum to delay this vote. Pitt is the only one to have an article in the paper about it.

These things are almost always done with a consensus. If Pitt, WVU, and Rutgers are strongly opposed, that's enough to delay a vote. The conference wouldn't let a new football team in over the strong objections of 3 of its 9 football schools.

But if I had to guess, I'd guess that 'Nova cuts a deal to use Franklin Field and then gets the green light from the BE.


RE: Uh oh...Villanova's vote delayed - UCF08 - 04-11-2011 11:34 AM

(04-11-2011 10:58 AM)No Bull Wrote:  
(04-11-2011 10:50 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  You afraid of what will happen if they invite UCF?

Football only is the easisedt solutuion and ECU will accept football only..UCF will not.

How are you so sure they'd rather sit at 17 for Basketball?


RE: Uh oh...Villanova's vote delayed - Frank the Tank - 04-11-2011 11:57 AM

(04-11-2011 11:30 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(04-11-2011 10:47 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-11-2011 10:42 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  We all know unless Notre Dame helps get the football to 12 teams or DePaul, Seton Hall and Providence are canned, we will split soon than later.

Putting aside opinions of DePaul and Seton Hall, Providence will get canned by the Big East around the same time that Duke and UNC get canned by the ACC.

Frank, no dis-respect, but dude you do not know what all the schools are thinking. The divide between the eight all-sport football schools + TCU and Notre Dame and the "seven dwarfs" is widening into the Grand Canyon. The football schools are going to 12 members. I think 12/20 is to large, so the split has been delayed so far, but it is coming, unless the dead weight is jettisoned.

04-cheers

Why is that divide widening? Because you wish that to be the case? The Catholic schools actually provided a fairly big give by voting for all-sports membership for TCU, which ONLY helps the football side and will dilute basketball revenue. The BE schools could have split for many years. What's the compelling reason to do so now when the basketball league is at the peak of its powers (including a resurgent St. John's that's invaluable to the NYC market) and the football league is in a down-cycle? How does that make sense? Why does that make more revenue on a per-school basis when BB TV revenue is higher in the BE? What ESPN or CBS or Fox or Comcast executive is going to pay a premium for UCF or Houston football when they aren't paying a premium for way more established West Virginia and Pitt football programs? No one ever comes up with reasonable explanations for this to financially support a split.

Mostly what I see are more emotionally-based arguments, such as "THE BIG EAST ONLY CARES ABOUT BASKETBALL AND THROWING FOOTBALL UNDER THE BUS!!!" To be sure, the BE leadership might not be composed of the sharpest tools in the box, but if they could've built an SEC football-type powerhouse by splitting, then they would've done it 5 years ago. The point is that this was never realistic and they have had to work with what they have. There seems to be this notion among a lot of FB fans that basketball is somehow holding back football in the Big East. In reality, the only freaking reason why BE FB even got ANY TV deal with ESPN after the ACC raid was the strength of BE basketball.

If splitting meant that Notre Dame or Penn State were signing up, then that's one thing. However, that's not happening. Instead, the split proponents want to give up the best BB league in the country with direct connections to the nation's largest TV markets East of the Mississippi in order to add some members in football that may not add a single dime in TV revenue and provide little national cachet. It continues to perplex as to how so many fans think this is a good deal.

Here's where I think the disconnect is: I agree that an *ideal* conference situation is to have football bring in gazillions of dollars like the Big Ten and SEC as opposed to basketball. So, I think a lot of BE FB fans believe that since the BE isn't in an ideal situation, then it must be the wrong situation. However, that's not necessarily true for the BE *itself*, as having the hybrid has shown to be the revenue maximizing model for its members. The BE won't be the SEC or maybe even the ACC in terms of revenue, but that doesn't mean you take a sledgehammer to the league's greatest strength.


RE: Uh oh...Villanova's vote delayed - JunkYardCard - 04-11-2011 12:04 PM

I think there is the slimmist of slim chances that a PAC 16 formation could make a split viable if Kansas, KSU and Missouri became available. Otherwise, it's just silly to talk of splitting for splitting's sake. People need to forget about Providence or DePaul leaving, forcibly or otherwise. I suppose there is a slim chance Seton Hall might voluntarily decide to go in another direction, but even that is wishful thinking.

I'm just glad some reality has set in on this Nova deal. There is nothing wrong with 9/17. And adding Nova won't make anyone more money except Nova because they will be taking a cut of money they haven't earned.


RE: Uh oh...Villanova's vote delayed - UCF08 - 04-11-2011 12:10 PM

(04-11-2011 11:57 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-11-2011 11:30 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  
(04-11-2011 10:47 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(04-11-2011 10:42 AM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  We all know unless Notre Dame helps get the football to 12 teams or DePaul, Seton Hall and Providence are canned, we will split soon than later.

Putting aside opinions of DePaul and Seton Hall, Providence will get canned by the Big East around the same time that Duke and UNC get canned by the ACC.

Frank, no dis-respect, but dude you do not know what all the schools are thinking. The divide between the eight all-sport football schools + TCU and Notre Dame and the "seven dwarfs" is widening into the Grand Canyon. The football schools are going to 12 members. I think 12/20 is to large, so the split has been delayed so far, but it is coming, unless the dead weight is jettisoned.

04-cheers

Why is that divide widening? Because you wish that to be the case? The Catholic schools actually provided a fairly big give by voting for all-sports membership for TCU, which ONLY helps the football side and will dilute basketball revenue. The BE schools could have split for many years. What's the compelling reason to do so now when the basketball league is at the peak of its powers (including a resurgent St. John's that's invaluable to the NYC market) and the football league is in a down-cycle? How does that make sense? Why does that make more revenue on a per-school basis when BB TV revenue is higher in the BE? What ESPN or CBS or Fox or Comcast executive is going to pay a premium for UCF or Houston football when they aren't paying a premium for way more established West Virginia and Pitt football programs? No one ever comes up with reasonable explanations for this to financially support a split.

Mostly what I see are more emotionally-based arguments, such as "THE BIG EAST ONLY CARES ABOUT BASKETBALL AND THROWING FOOTBALL UNDER THE BUS!!!" To be sure, the BE leadership might not be composed of the sharpest tools in the box, but if they could've built an SEC football-type powerhouse by splitting, then they would've done it 5 years ago. The point is that this was never realistic and they have had to work with what they have. There seems to be this notion among a lot of FB fans that basketball is somehow holding back football in the Big East. In reality, the only freaking reason why BE FB even got ANY TV deal with ESPN after the ACC raid was the strength of BE basketball.

If splitting meant that Notre Dame or Penn State were signing up, then that's one thing. However, that's not happening. Instead, the split proponents want to give up the best BB league in the country with direct connections to the nation's largest TV markets East of the Mississippi in order to add some members in football that may not add a single dime in TV revenue and provide little national cachet. It continues to perplex as to how so many fans think this is a good deal.

Here's where I think the disconnect is: I agree that an *ideal* conference situation is to have football bring in gazillions of dollars like the Big Ten and SEC as opposed to basketball. So, I think a lot of BE FB fans believe that since the BE isn't in an ideal situation, then it must be the wrong situation. However, that's not necessarily true for the BE *itself*, as having the hybrid has shown to be the revenue maximizing model for its members. The BE won't be the SEC or maybe even the ACC in terms of revenue, but that doesn't mean you take a sledgehammer to the league's greatest strength.

I think you're underselling what a conference like the Big East sans the BBall only schools would rake in, television-wise. Add in three programs like ECU/UCF/Houston, a conference championship game, and I think the per-team rake would be just as good if not better than it is currently. You'd still have one of the stronger Basketball conferences in the nation with the teams remaining, and every member of the conference would be adding value to the conference in football, which cannot be said for the Basketball only schools.

Of course we don't know this for sure as I can't just ask Fox/ESPN/CBS what they'd pay for something like that, but I can't see any real flaw in my logic.


RE: Uh oh...Villanova's vote delayed - LastMinuteman - 04-11-2011 12:55 PM

(04-10-2011 10:08 PM)Borncoog74 Wrote:  
(04-10-2011 10:06 PM)KnightTower Wrote:  
(04-10-2011 10:04 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  We can only speculate that the stadium was the issue, if so, I doubt the phillies want them to screw up their field. I believe the final date is June something so Nova has less than 2 months to convince the BE that can make it work.

June 1st is the date another school has to leave its conference by in order to play in the Big east in 2012, right? So...a little over a month and a half.

Before July 1st 12:01am

It's June 1st according to section 20.4.2.1.1 of the NCAA's Division I handbook:

"20.4.2.1.1 Reclassification from Football Championship Subdivision to Football Bowl Subdivision—Notification Requirement. The chancellor or president from a Football Championship Subdivision institution that intends to petition for reclassification to the Football Bowl Subdivision, per Bylaw 20.4.2, shall submit to the NCAA president written notice of the institution’s intention to reclassify. The notice shall be received in the national office (by mail or electronic transmission) not later than June 1 two years prior to the September 1 when the institution intends to reclassify to the Football Bowl Subdivision."


So whatever the Big East and Villanova need to think about, they need to think fast.


RE: Uh oh...Villanova's vote delayed - apex_pirate - 04-11-2011 12:57 PM

(04-11-2011 12:55 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(04-10-2011 10:08 PM)Borncoog74 Wrote:  
(04-10-2011 10:06 PM)KnightTower Wrote:  
(04-10-2011 10:04 PM)jaredf29 Wrote:  We can only speculate that the stadium was the issue, if so, I doubt the phillies want them to screw up their field. I believe the final date is June something so Nova has less than 2 months to convince the BE that can make it work.

June 1st is the date another school has to leave its conference by in order to play in the Big east in 2012, right? So...a little over a month and a half.

Before July 1st 12:01am

It's June 1st according to section 20.4.2.1.1 of the NCAA's Division I handbook:

"20.4.2.1.1 Reclassification from Football Championship Subdivision to Football Bowl Subdivision—Notification Requirement. The chancellor or president from a Football Championship Subdivision institution that intends to petition for reclassification to the Football Bowl Subdivision, per Bylaw 20.4.2, shall submit to the NCAA president written notice of the institution’s intention to reclassify. The notice shall be received in the national office (by mail or electronic transmission) not later than June 1 two years prior to the September 1 when the institution intends to reclassify to the Football Bowl Subdivision."

I think they are talking about one FBS school leaving their FBS conference to join another FBS conference.


RE: Uh oh...Villanova's vote delayed - omniorange - 04-11-2011 01:06 PM

(04-11-2011 05:58 AM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  The conference already voted to go to 10 teams, so that plan is already in place and voted on. The same group put a stop to Nova being the 10th yesterday. I doubt they plan on backstepping on their announcement and still plan to go to 10. The 9/17 concept won't last IMO. I have to imagine the conference want all teams in or announced by the time the new tv contract is issued. Those in favor here of 9/17, are you thinking this setup for another year or so, or all the way through the next tv contract?

Back in May of 2003 the ACC agreed to expand to 12 which allowed the conference to proceed with contacting candidates. But come June, they still had to vote on each program to add. 03-wink

Same thing applies here. TCU had to be voted upon by all 16 teams prior to getting an actual invite. The BE office and the expansion committee do not have carte blanche to just add any 10th member.

Cheers,
Neil


RE: Uh oh...Villanova's vote delayed - Steelbeard - 04-11-2011 01:26 PM

(04-11-2011 09:48 AM)PearlandStephen Wrote:  
(04-11-2011 09:43 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  
(04-10-2011 10:23 PM)UHCougar07 Wrote:  Ugh, all of this is starting to get old.

Welcome to the Big East 03-lmfao

This is nothing compared to all the drama the last 10 years.

Did you just type 'Welcome to the Big East' to a UH Cougar fan? I'm sure that prompted a new thread on our board.

The Houston message boards look a lot like the MT.org boards did about a year ago. It's a good read for several laughs though.


RE: Uh oh...Villanova's vote delayed - GrayBeard - 04-11-2011 01:43 PM

(04-11-2011 06:16 AM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  There is still one school out there who would be thrilled to take a FB only invite. 05-stirthepot

Please let it be someone other than ECU.