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RE: Big East looks to expand - Raleighwood Pirate - 11-01-2010 11:44 AM

(11-01-2010 11:40 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(11-01-2010 11:25 AM)Brick City Pirate Wrote:  
(11-01-2010 11:15 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-01-2010 11:09 AM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  
(11-01-2010 08:57 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Even though I love to loathe ECU, they are a much better candidate than Villanova/Temple. ECU, despite their small market, draws well and they televise well. If given a BCS opportunity, they'd instantly eclipse Wake and Duke (for football anyway) in NC and be on par with NC State. Plus their football is, you know, good...unlike Temple and Villanova (in terms of having to move up for them). Philly isn't a college town for football and Temple/Nova aren't going to change that. Better to take what ECU gets you in Raleigh and the Tidewater (which is at least something since MASN picks up their games).

We have eclipsed Duke and Wake a long time ago. We are the #3 team in NC.

So, how does it help the Big East to have the #3 football program in a state with a population of 9 million?

And let's not forget that ECU isn't even #5 in NC in basketball.


Do the math. UCF would be the #5 football program in Florida. Memphis would be #2 or #3 football program in Tennessee. If you divide those schools by their state's population they are about the same as ECU being #3 in North Carolina.

We've already been through this argument. Even if UCF only garnered Orlando viewers which is doubtful with their huge alumni, it is still many more potential viewers than the potential viewers ECU can muster in the best of circumstances.

Not to mention UCF brings Florida recruits which are much more highly regarded and sought after than any North Carolina ones. Add in a nearby BE program, better facilities and academics and the case is closed.

However, what Florida is for football NC is for basketball recruits. We put out the best recruits in the country in basketball.


RE: Big East looks to expand - Gray Avenger - 11-01-2010 11:46 AM

(11-01-2010 11:36 AM)saxamoophone Wrote:  Memphis isn't moving up until they build an on-campus stadium.

(1) Recently-renovated 62,000-seat Liberty bowl stadium is only two miles from campus.

(2) There are a number of successful BCS programs (some in the BE) which play off-campus

(3) With BCS status and a modicum of success, an on-campus stadium probably WILL be built.


RE: Big East looks to expand - Bill Marsh - 11-01-2010 11:46 AM

(11-01-2010 11:25 AM)Brick City Pirate Wrote:  
(11-01-2010 11:15 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-01-2010 11:09 AM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  
(11-01-2010 08:57 AM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  Even though I love to loathe ECU, they are a much better candidate than Villanova/Temple. ECU, despite their small market, draws well and they televise well. If given a BCS opportunity, they'd instantly eclipse Wake and Duke (for football anyway) in NC and be on par with NC State. Plus their football is, you know, good...unlike Temple and Villanova (in terms of having to move up for them). Philly isn't a college town for football and Temple/Nova aren't going to change that. Better to take what ECU gets you in Raleigh and the Tidewater (which is at least something since MASN picks up their games).

We have eclipsed Duke and Wake a long time ago. We are the #3 team in NC.

So, how does it help the Big East to have the #3 football program in a state with a population of 9 million?

And let's not forget that ECU isn't even #5 in NC in basketball.


Do the math. UCF would be the #5 football program in Florida. Memphis would be #2 or #3 football program in Tennessee. If you divide those schools by their state's population they are about the same as ECU being #3 in North Carolina.

Why should I do the math on UCF & Memphis? I'm not a fan of adding either of those teams do the BE.

But even with your logic, UCF is a better candidate. Divide Florida's 18 million by 5 = 3.6 million, which is better than 3 million - especially since WF, Duke, & ASU provide stronger competition to ECU in NC than anyone after UCF would provide in Florida.

Add in the fact that ECU brings no benefit in terms of football recruiting the way that UCF does in Florida & the fact that UCF isn't automatically pushed as far back in basketball as ECU is in state & the fact that UCF is in a major metro area & ECU is not. Although I'm not a fan of adding UCF, I see clear advantages with them over ECU.


RE: Big East looks to expand - CougarRed - 11-01-2010 11:47 AM

Houston Cougar fan here.

Just a note that we are:

1. Averaging 100% of capacity this season in football.
2. Getting excellent TV ratings in our market.
3. Making huge strides in fund raising for the $160M stadium projects, which include a new football stadium and a $40M upgrade to Hofheinz Pavilion.

Glad we are on the Big East radar. Would love to rejoin Louisville, Cincy, USF and TCU.


RE: Big East looks to expand - buckaineer - 11-01-2010 11:48 AM

(11-01-2010 11:44 AM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  
(11-01-2010 11:40 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  
(11-01-2010 11:25 AM)Brick City Pirate Wrote:  
(11-01-2010 11:15 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  
(11-01-2010 11:09 AM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  We have eclipsed Duke and Wake a long time ago. We are the #3 team in NC.

So, how does it help the Big East to have the #3 football program in a state with a population of 9 million?

And let's not forget that ECU isn't even #5 in NC in basketball.


Do the math. UCF would be the #5 football program in Florida. Memphis would be #2 or #3 football program in Tennessee. If you divide those schools by their state's population they are about the same as ECU being #3 in North Carolina.

We've already been through this argument. Even if UCF only garnered Orlando viewers which is doubtful with their huge alumni, it is still many more potential viewers than the potential viewers ECU can muster in the best of circumstances.

Not to mention UCF brings Florida recruits which are much more highly regarded and sought after than any North Carolina ones. Add in a nearby BE program, better facilities and academics and the case is closed.

However, what Florida is for football NC is for basketball recruits. We put out the best recruits in the country in basketball.

Can't agree with that either-the northeast puts out the best basketball recruits and even UNC and Duke recruit heavily from that region for star players


RE: Big East looks to expand - Frank the Tank - 11-01-2010 11:50 AM

(11-01-2010 11:44 AM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  However, what Florida is for football NC is for basketball recruits. We put out the best recruits in the country in basketball.

Is that really true? North Carolina might have the best college basketball fans in the country, but I don't know if it's really the best recruiting ground. NYC and Chicago have produced a disproportionate share of basketball stars over the past 30 years, and other large urban areas (LA, DC, Philly, Detroit) are close behind. Out of the "smaller" states with lots of college basketball fans, Indiana seems to be an unusually fertile basketball recruiting ground compared to its overall population.


RE: Big East looks to expand - ctkatz - 11-01-2010 11:51 AM

(11-01-2010 11:30 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  Oh, the Big East has a lot of different circumstances than the Big Ten, for sure. It's just that, as bluesox alluded to, a 20-team league is really just 2 different conferences with a scheduling arrangement no matter what type of label you want to slap on it. A 16 school league is already freaking huge and we've already seen Big East schools lose NCAA Tournament bids as a result of it. If you're going up to 20 schools, then what the heck is the point of advancing the hybrid anymore? At that point, the league just needs to split (and I'm not a "split for the sake of splitting" proponent at all). A currently super-sized league going up to a mega-sized league just won't work well in practicality - schools won't play each other, even more NCAA Tournament bids will be lost, etc.

this

16 teams is unwieldy now. why make things worse by adding teams? the football schools need to stop demurring to the basketball side. they should have split off en-masse when the big twelven was in major instability and asked kansas, k-state, mizzou, and iowa state to join up in a conference. 12 teams, no hybrid and enough teams in football to do a championship game.

but we all know that doing the right thing for this conference is nearly impossible. if all they care about is markets for a possible big east network, they should consider san diego state and a school in the los angeles area. why not? it makes as much sense as a 20 team "conference" where teams may play each other once in 3 years.


RE: Big East looks to expand - Capital Pirate - 11-01-2010 11:52 AM

(11-01-2010 11:46 AM)Bill Marsh Wrote:  I see clear advantages with them over ECU.

Correction - you see "potential"...none of the so-called expansion "candidates" bring ANYTHING tangible to ANY new conference right now besides POTENTIAL - not TCU, not Houston, not Villanova, not anyone.....any "advantages" are simply perceived at this point, because in almost all the cases, you're talking about things that do not yet exist......

We all can sleep better at night knowing that not one person who posts on any message board will have any say in any possible expansion.....God help us if that weren't the case.


RE: Big East looks to expand - b0ndsj0ns - 11-01-2010 12:01 PM

At this point ECU has done everything it is capable of doing to be ready. Expanded the stadium, filled the stadium, upgraded every single athletic facility, won back to back championships, so if it isn't enough then it never will be. It's as simple as that. We will have tough decisions to make if we get left behind again.


RE: Big East looks to expand - saxamoophone - 11-01-2010 12:04 PM

(11-01-2010 11:43 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  
(11-01-2010 11:36 AM)saxamoophone Wrote:  UCF & USF may very well pass Miami, and be on par with FSU in the next few years (FSU is not the same school they were 10 years ago). And given how fast FSU has dropped off, Florida has to work pretty hard to keep the seperation from the rest of the state.

Now, now - as the Wolf said in Pulp Fiction, "Let's not start sucking each other d***s right now." Reasonably speaking, Miami and Florida State have inherent advantages that aren't going to go away even if they have relatively down seasons. College football power moves at a glacial pace - you get different surprise temporary upstarts every year, but moving tiers for the long-term is a very slow process. If you look at history, college football's current hierarchy was basically formed in the decade after World War II and has barely changed in the last 60 years - the powers that rose up then are still largely the powers in college football today.

Ha! I agree Frank, this isn't something happens overnight. (even though I'm obviously bias with my team being UCF).
BUT...UCF and USF are in a weird position since both schools have went from small commuter schools two decades ago to two of the biggest schools in the country.

Most fans are tied to schools because
1) They went there.
2) They know somebody that went there (family probably)
3) It’s the hometown team.
4) They were raised to like that team.

When it comes to Miami, being a small private school really doesn’t help them. They got a great history, but I think their size will be their downfall in the end.

Now obviously Florida is still going to be #1 for years to come, and FSU will be a solid #2. But I think each year USF and UCF are going to catch up…Field performance first, followed by booster clubs. I think the biggest thing holding those two schools back is the conference affiliation. An annual UCF/USF rivalry game might help that!
I just think the gap between programs will close a little…maybe sooner rather than later (once again, wishful thinking on my part maybe)