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Dealing with ND - buckaineer - 11-09-2008 10:01 PM
ND is definitely benefitting from its presence in the BE for all sports but football. They are in top leagues for men's and women's bb and other "olympic" sports and even their football team benefits by having bowl tie ins that they wouldn't have had if not part of the BE deal.
Tranghese and the bb schools don't want them gone, ND doesn't want their current situation to change either. For BE football to get a more equitable deal and for ND to start "paying back" what the BE has done for them, changes need to be made in the situation.
BE football teams need marquee games now, and the BE needs more revenue. ND could provide both.
I think that BE presidents and the commissioner should approach ND and ask that ND agree to some concessions in order to keep their other teams in a great league:
ND should play ALL BE teams in football home and home-3-4 games per year every year on a rotating basis. I don't know how well ND is paying visiting teams coming in but they should pay BE teams WELL for this. For the games that they are playing away--they should play at the home stadiums for the BE teams and should help the BE get good tv slots and revenues for these games.
As for bowls, the simple solution is that, ND will continue to be a part of the non-BCS bowl situation but unlike now, they will pay the league the same amount that a BEFC team would pay when they participate in a bowl. They won't keep all money as they do now. Also, they should use their substantial clout to assist the BE in getting better bowls for better money (i.e. at least one other major new years day bowl)--all of which they could be a part of. If they did this then the league could treat them as a conference member for bowls-this would make the BEFC more desirable to more bowls as ND might be included any year rather than just once in awhile.
Since ND has substantial tv clout perhaps they could also assist the BE in getting better tv coverage--i.e. this season the BE has gotten virtually NO coverage on the ESPN networks Saturday games which hurts the league in multiple ways. Maybe ND could help the BE get a noon marquee matchup prior to their weekly gameon NBC--on days when ND is away, NBC could carry the BE game in the afternoon or early evening.
RE: Dealing with ND - SF Husky - 11-09-2008 11:50 PM
I am ok if they just share the bowl money with BE FB schools like any other BE FB member. If they gonna benefit from BE association, it is very greedy of them to screw the BE out of bowl bids while also keeping all the money. Also, they need to play more BE football schools on 1-to-1 basis.
Otherwise, they are just a leach with a crappy FB team totally based on hype.
They have top 10 recruiting class every year yet what I see on the field are just average athletes at best. UCONN with our 2 stars are a better team than ND right now. Clausen is very overrated as a QB. I think our young QBs are better than this guy. Weiss is overrated as a head coach. They gonna figure that out in a few years. If he does not win next year, I think ND fanbase gonna have issues since his recruits will be JRs/SRs next year.
Their basketball team is also average at best thanks to the BE. I hope UCONN will drill them this year.
RE: Dealing with ND - DFW HOYA - 11-10-2008 05:59 AM
SF Husky Wrote:I am ok if they just share the bowl money with BE FB schools like any other BE FB member.
ND isn't a BE FB member so why should they share? BE football members don't share any revenues with Villanova and Georgetown.
RE: Dealing with ND - TIGER-PAUL - 11-10-2008 06:57 AM
would have to convince presidents and there is no evidence that they would even entertain discussing the issue. All recent eveidence points to them strengthening the ties to ND.
RE: Dealing with ND - Ring of Black - 11-10-2008 08:52 AM
Nova and G'town don't play a FBS schedule, thus are not eligible for bowls.
RE: Dealing with ND - buckaineer - 11-10-2008 09:09 AM
DFW HOYA Wrote:SF Husky Wrote:I am ok if they just share the bowl money with BE FB schools like any other BE FB member.
ND isn't a BE FB member so why should they share? BE football members don't share any revenues with Villanova and Georgetown.
They should participate as other members do in distributing BE bowl money if they play in BE bowl slots. Everyone always points out that BE football needed Notre Dame to get their current bowl deals (which I do not believe is totally true). Everyone conveniently forgets that when these deals were initially made, ND football was struggling and NOT getting good bowl opportunities-I believe they even turned down the independence (or maybe Poulan Weedeater bowl) because they thought it was beneath them.
When ND went into the bowl situation with the BE, they needed the deal as much as the BE did-otherwise they would have just made their own deals--but they didn't cause they COULD NOT without the Big East.
Were the ACC, Big Ten, SEC, Big Twelve or Pac Ten going to sign some deal like this with bowls where their teams could be knocked outof bowls in favor of ND? H#LL NO. And let's say that Notre Dame signed some deal by themselves with the Gator leaving out the BE? Well what would the Gator do all those seasons where ND couldn't even make a bowl?
And what about the other BE tie ins then--they would never be able to get ND--do you really think they'd leave out matchups with a BCS league altogether in favor of the MAC or some other non-BCS league?--not going to happen.
Georgetown and Villanova et al do not play football at the same level as the other schools, therefore there is no reason they would share in football monies. They also don't DRAIN funds from BE football while benefitting from all other sports.
RE: Dealing with ND - rferry - 11-10-2008 09:15 AM
buckaineer Wrote:even their football team benefits by having bowl tie ins that they wouldn't have had if not part of the BE deal.Uhh... what?
...
Also, they should use their substantial clout to assist the BE in getting better bowls for better money (i.e. at least one other major new years day bowl)--all of which they could be a part of.
Notre Dame has already done that. That's why you have BE has retained tie-ins with the Gator and Sun. Otherwise, the BE #2 would be in Charlotte or some other < $1mm December bowl game.
RE: Dealing with ND - Ring of Black - 11-10-2008 09:28 AM
If we demand that ND share its Gator, etc. bowl revenue with BE teams, then they’d probably say, “OK, as long as the BE shares ALL its bowl revenue with ND (including the BCS game).” And rightfully so, as it would be only a one-way deal otherwise.
So, if it happened this way, there would be even less $$$ for each BE team, IMO.
I’m no fan of ND, but I support fair play.
Can the BE retain the Gator without ND’s help? That’s another issue.
RE: Dealing with ND - buckaineer - 11-10-2008 11:05 AM
Jose_Jalapeno_on_a_Stick Wrote:If we demand that ND share its Gator, etc. bowl revenue with BE teams, then they’d probably say, “OK, as long as the BE shares ALL its bowl revenue with ND (including the BCS game).” And rightfully so, as it would be only a one-way deal otherwise.
So, if it happened this way, there would be even less $$$ for each BE team, IMO.
I’m no fan of ND, but I support fair play.
Can the BE retain the Gator without ND’s help? That’s another issue.
Fine as long as ND shares its fooball tv revenues with the BE
RE: Dealing with ND - Ring of Black - 11-10-2008 11:07 AM
touchee
RE: Dealing with ND - buckaineer - 11-10-2008 11:09 AM
rferry Wrote:buckaineer Wrote:even their football team benefits by having bowl tie ins that they wouldn't have had if not part of the BE deal.Uhh... what?
...
Also, they should use their substantial clout to assist the BE in getting better bowls for better money (i.e. at least one other major new years day bowl)--all of which they could be a part of.
Notre Dame has already done that. That's why you have BE has retained tie-ins with the Gator and Sun. Otherwise, the BE #2 would be in Charlotte or some other < $1mm December bowl game.
Wrong-Notre Dame did not retain tie ins for BE teams. The BE agreed to participate in bowls with ND and the Big Twelve. If ND had their own tie ins to these bowls,the BE wouldn't have any access at all because the bowls could take ND no matter what record as long as a winning one-and if ND failed to qualify the bowls were left with wht a CUSA or MAC team?-the bowls didn't want this.
RE: Dealing with ND - panite - 11-10-2008 02:21 PM
The BE has to deal with ND because they are a conference member. They have a place at the BE table and have a vote on issues not dealing with FB. The do how ever have an influence on the bowl situation as Trained Goose allowed them to have shot at all the second tier bowls in order to secure the Gator / Sun deal. The cost of securing that deal for four years was a Russian Roulette game of loosing bowls to ND and the income if they did not receive a BCS bid or take the Cotton Bowl bid once in 4 years if eligible for that bowl. That's the deal for now - live with it. It was a deal that had to be made after the raid when the BE had to negotiate contracts through a period of perceived weakness. The BE proved that perception wrong the last several years but the contracts are in place until 2009 when they are negotiated again with out Trained Goose at the helm. If the BCS conferences is going to give ND giving a place at the BCS table with special considerations for their marketability, then the BE might as well use them too while they can until the conference or split conference is able to go it on its own. At least they are a CONFERENCE MEMBER for everything else but FB. As the BE or SBE gets stronger they might be able to negotiate more favorable terms with ND and the bowls but for now it is what it is until the BE or SBE gets stronger and puts the fans in the seats at bowls beyond what they do with the few BE schools that travel well at this point in time.
RE: Dealing with ND - buckaineer - 11-10-2008 03:03 PM
panite Wrote:...That's the deal for now - live with it. It was a deal that had to be made after the raid when the BE had to negotiate contracts through a period of perceived weakness. The BE proved that perception wrong the last several years but the contracts are in place until 2009 when they are negotiated again with out Trained Goose at the helm....
As you said yourself these deals are coming up soon--hopefully the new commissioner will have football's best interest in mind and he and the presidents will make some changes as I've suggested--that being said perhaps ND would agree to concessions if they see their uneven alliance coming to an end--which would force them to try and make bowl deals on their own without the BE schools--not as easy as you think since only the BE bowls, MWC, CUSA, MAC and SunBelt bowls would be likely to negotiate with ND at all (and what would happen if all these conferences protested this?)--and all bowls wouldn't want to negotiate exclusively with ND because if a different bowl gets the Irish what do you do? You suddenly have no teams to put in your bowl.
RE: Dealing with ND - bitcruncher - 11-10-2008 07:32 PM
Notre Dame better agree to amend the football end of the deal, or they can find another home for their minor sports...
RE: Dealing with ND - rferry - 11-10-2008 07:36 PM
buckaineer Wrote:Point is the Gator and Sun do not want the BE #2 alone. They want the option of selecting Notre Dame. The partnership helps the Big East gain access to better bowls, not the other way around. It's the Big East, not Notre Dame, that benefits from the Gator Bowl deal. (Unless, of course, if they're locked out of the bowl frequently enough.)rferry Wrote:Wrong-Notre Dame did not retain tie ins for BE teams. The BE agreed to participate in bowls with ND and the Big Twelve. If ND had their own tie ins to these bowls,the BE wouldn't have any access at all because the bowls could take ND no matter what record as long as a winning one-and if ND failed to qualify the bowls were left with wht a CUSA or MAC team?-the bowls didn't want this.buckaineer Wrote:even their football team benefits by having bowl tie ins that they wouldn't have had if not part of the BE deal.Uhh... what?
...
Also, they should use their substantial clout to assist the BE in getting better bowls for better money (i.e. at least one other major new years day bowl)--all of which they could be a part of.
Notre Dame has already done that. That's why you have BE has retained tie-ins with the Gator and Sun. Otherwise, the BE #2 would be in Charlotte or some other < $1mm December bowl game.
RE: Dealing with ND - bitcruncher - 11-10-2008 07:49 PM
Then the Gator and Sun bowls do not want The BEast, and I would look elsewhere...
RE: Dealing with ND - buckaineer - 11-10-2008 09:25 PM
rferry Wrote:buckaineer Wrote:Point is the Gator and Sun do not want the BE #2 alone. They want the option of selecting Notre Dame. The partnership helps the Big East gain access to better bowls, not the other way around. It's the Big East, not Notre Dame, that benefits from the Gator Bowl deal. (Unless, of course, if they're locked out of the bowl frequently enough.)rferry Wrote:Wrong-Notre Dame did not retain tie ins for BE teams. The BE agreed to participate in bowls with ND and the Big Twelve. If ND had their own tie ins to these bowls,the BE wouldn't have any access at all because the bowls could take ND no matter what record as long as a winning one-and if ND failed to qualify the bowls were left with wht a CUSA or MAC team?-the bowls didn't want this.buckaineer Wrote:even their football team benefits by having bowl tie ins that they wouldn't have had if not part of the BE deal.Uhh... what?
...
Also, they should use their substantial clout to assist the BE in getting better bowls for better money (i.e. at least one other major new years day bowl)--all of which they could be a part of.
Notre Dame has already done that. That's why you have BE has retained tie-ins with the Gator and Sun. Otherwise, the BE #2 would be in Charlotte or some other < $1mm December bowl game.
There is no evidence to support that the Gator and or Sun do not want the BE #2. Sure they'd like a chance at getting ND. But honestly, if Tranghese had said that no, the BE will not agree to be part of your bowl if you will select ND over one of our schools--what would these bowls do? The other major conferences wouldn't be sending anything above a 7 or 8 team and perhaps even worse if they made an agreement with one of them. If the Gator negotiated for a higher BCS team from such conference? Well that would open a slot for another BCS team in a bowl that conference vacated. There is simply no way that the BE was going to be completely shut out of bowls at the level of the Gator unless they gave ND this deal because there are too many bowls out there that would want a #2 BCS team from the BE over even the winner of the MWC, CUSA, WAC, etc. All such other conference BCS teams are already spoken for. And what wouldve happened to the Gator if they shut out the BE and ND didn't make bowl eligibility as has happened recently?
If you say they'd take a Big Twelve team, then that'd still leave the SUN bowl or maybe Cotton for the #2 Big East as now.
It is simply a Tranghese and ND made myth that the BE would be shut out--the bowls bluffed and Tranghese bit, probably trying to appease ND so the wouldn't join the Big Ten.
RE: Dealing with ND - Bearcats#1 - 11-10-2008 10:54 PM
I hate ND...
RE: Dealing with ND - bitcruncher - 11-11-2008 08:07 AM
Join the club, Bearcats#1...
RE: Dealing with ND - rferry - 11-11-2008 08:28 AM
buckaineer Wrote:The Gator is the 5th highest paying bowl outside the BCS. They already have arrangements for the Big 12's #3. The Gator Bowl is not desperate for the Big East. And could find a more attractive conference to link up with should the BE go all "no ND" on them. Heck, the Gator barely wants the BE #2 now, as witnessed by their recent selections and renegotiations that expanded access to the Big 12. Without ND, the BE #2 would be in a weaker bowl (not Boise-esque, but certainly Independence-esque) and the conference would receive significantly less pay outs.rferry Wrote:buckaineer Wrote:Point is the Gator and Sun do not want the BE #2 alone. They want the option of selecting Notre Dame. The partnership helps the Big East gain access to better bowls, not the other way around. It's the Big East, not Notre Dame, that benefits from the Gator Bowl deal. (Unless, of course, if they're locked out of the bowl frequently enough.)rferry Wrote:Wrong-Notre Dame did not retain tie ins for BE teams. The BE agreed to participate in bowls with ND and the Big Twelve. If ND had their own tie ins to these bowls,the BE wouldn't have any access at all because the bowls could take ND no matter what record as long as a winning one-and if ND failed to qualify the bowls were left with wht a CUSA or MAC team?-the bowls didn't want this.buckaineer Wrote:even their football team benefits by having bowl tie ins that they wouldn't have had if not part of the BE deal.Uhh... what?
...
Also, they should use their substantial clout to assist the BE in getting better bowls for better money (i.e. at least one other major new years day bowl)--all of which they could be a part of.
Notre Dame has already done that. That's why you have BE has retained tie-ins with the Gator and Sun. Otherwise, the BE #2 would be in Charlotte or some other < $1mm December bowl game.
There is no evidence to support that the Gator and or Sun do not want the BE #2. Sure they'd like a chance at getting ND. But honestly, if Tranghese had said that no, the BE will not agree to be part of your bowl if you will select ND over one of our schools--what would these bowls do? The other major conferences wouldn't be sending anything above a 7 or 8 team and perhaps even worse if they made an agreement with one of them. If the Gator negotiated for a higher BCS team from such conference? Well that would open a slot for another BCS team in a bowl that conference vacated. There is simply no way that the BE was going to be completely shut out of bowls at the level of the Gator unless they gave ND this deal because there are too many bowls out there that would want a #2 BCS team from the BE over even the winner of the MWC, CUSA, WAC, etc. All such other conference BCS teams are already spoken for. And what wouldve happened to the Gator if they shut out the BE and ND didn't make bowl eligibility as has happened recently?
If you say they'd take a Big Twelve team, then that'd still leave the SUN bowl or maybe Cotton for the #2 Big East as now.
It is simply a Tranghese and ND made myth that the BE would be shut out--the bowls bluffed and Tranghese bit, probably trying to appease ND so the wouldn't join the Big Ten.