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Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - PittsburghBucs - 07-13-2008 01:03 PM
I was reading Trey Williams' wonderful column on Thomas Wade, who sounds like he lived quite a wonderful life before recently passing.
Wade was a big supporter of Science Hill basketball and was an employee at the school.
But what struck me was the lack of success those great Science Hill teams had academically, and how the players on the top basketball team in the state did relatively little in college.
Williams mentioned the following Hilltoppers legends in his column. What I add is a "Whatever Happened To?"-
Shane Williams- Probably the star of the group, he went to Northeast Oklahoma A & M before winding up at Tennessee and starting on some truly dreadful Vols hardwood squads. Now being thrown a bone by his old high school coach as a King College assistant.
At least he made us ETSU fans feel better by finding a college with a more ridiculous name than ours.
Damon Johnson- Here's another JUCO guy- going to Hiwassee Junior College before winding up with Williams at Tennessee.
Between the two of them they didn't average 20 points a game.
Or produce a winning record in Knoxville.
Or prevent their coach from leaving for Northwestern- NORTHWESTERN!!!!
Jovann Johnson- Another big time recruit- went to Wabash Valley College. Was going to go to UMass before it was learned he didn't have the academics for John Calipari, which is not easy. Then he was going to go to Appalachian State. Wound up playing in the Johnson City Rec League.
Nathaniel Bailey- Probably the best player ever to go through the famous Science Hill-North Idaho Junior College pipeline. Then he wound up as the sixth man on a bad University of New Orleans squad- playing in front of less than 1,000 fans a game. Didn't make it to his senior college season.
Even the primary source Williams quotes in his piece, Jerome Odem, apparently one of the better players ever to come from Science Hill- went to a JUCO before transferring to Troy.
Question here is- what's going on at Science Hill? How come none of their basketball players can make the grade coming out of high school?
And why hasn't it been corrected? If anything, even with Omar Wattad going to Georgetown it's gotten worse, with Danny Avery now famously bringing a gun to school last season.
With this academic ineptitude, how is it totally ignored by local media? I once asked their current AD about this, and his response was "Oh, you don't know how hard George Pitts tried to get his players to make the grade."
Evidently, not hard enough. But taking class time away to play in Alaska has a way of doing that.
The news story on Avery didn't even mention he was a basketball player.
Point here is, Science Hill is met with such romanticism and no criticism.
Yet on appearances Science Hill appears to be nothing but a high school basketball factory- and to the point where the City may just give Freedom Hall to it for their basketball games- that the head coach who couldn't get his players to go to a four-year college was named the principal- and that the football program suffers.
Do we really need three radio stations to cover Science Hill? Do we really need any? Do we really need them to have a 6,000 seat venue?
And if we do, then doesn't that make us appear utterly "Townie?"
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - BucNut22 - 07-13-2008 01:07 PM
PittsburghBucs Wrote:Jovann Johnson- Another big time recruit- went to Wabash Valley College. Was going to go to UMass before it was learned he didn't have the academics for John Calipari, which is not easy. Then he was going to go to Appalachian State. Wound up playing in the Johnson City Rec League.Saw Jovann a good deal last summer at the CPA, he had just finished up his degree I believe and was headed to the coast guard.
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - PittsburghBucs - 07-13-2008 02:42 PM
Good for him.
Still doesn't address the fact that nobody can seem to name a single prominent player from those Pitts teams went directly to a four-year college.
It's high school basketball- and that's the point. HIGH SCHOOL basketball.
Why couldn't these players have been benched- when the trend was apparent- for their own good until the grades were higher?
Answer- because we spend too much time making guys who are playing essentially glorified Little League into something they are not.
My goodness- what would the sponsors of the radio stations say?
Remember- it was the school- not the coach- that kicked Avery out.
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - Chatta-Buc84 - 07-13-2008 05:35 PM
Goes back further than George Pitt. I went to school with Gary Carter. He made it into UT, but flunked out his junior year.
There's a parallel school down here near Chattanooga, Cleveland High. Turned out some wonderful football players, but they can't seem to make the grades to get into a big time program. Most end up going JUCO and if they are lucky make it back to UTC.
Only thing I know in common between the 2 schools is that at one time they were 2 of the larger schools in the state. Maybe the students can find too many places to hide. Don't know though, I worked my tail off when I was at SHHS.
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - PittsburghBucs - 07-14-2008 08:00 AM
Chatt- No, I think there's something else here.
It's the way that Science Hill is totally overblown around here. When you make 16-year-old kids to be local celebrities you are going to give them fat heads.
It also is because, let's face it, basketball is a thug sport anymore.
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - Chatta-Buc84 - 07-14-2008 07:36 PM
...and Cleveland is a town of 25,000...
Those kids are all-stars there also.
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - PittsburghBucs - 07-15-2008 08:49 AM
I'm sure, but do they-
A- Have THREE radio stations broadcasting their games (Usually WKPT, WJCW, and the visitor's radio?)
B- Have Cleveland High School games knock the local Division I college team off the air? While that hasn't happened in awhile, it did happen only a couple of years after the glory days in the 90s here.
C- Do you have some sort of Christmas basketball tournament that is totally overblown, to the point I actually heard a commentator say "The Appalachian League is like the Arby's Classic?"
Uh, yeah, except the players are paid, they have a much better chance to go on to stardom, and nobody brags on the fact Bubby Brister and Doug Johnson played in the Appalachian League.
The other thing I hate about local high school basketball is you do have stories like kids bringing guns to school and academic shortcomings and recruiting questions and it is generally not covered.
I used to have to cover this crap and the games would often be totally meaningless. And then Science Hill- the school from the town of 57,000 people, would demolish David Crockett- the school from the town of 3,000 by 30-50 points and you'd talk to the Crockett coach.
And would he say he should have held the ball more? Would he mention that his team didn't foul enough? That he played too much man? That it was time for the TSSAA to look at reclassification or for the game to be dropped? That his best player watched "The Last Boy Scout" last night and wouldn't play Science Hill for fear of his life?
No. He'd say "Well, our team played hard . . . "
This is unique? This is something to be exhalted? What team DOESN'T play hard?
This is akin to saying "We bounced the ball coming down the court . . ."
Can you imagine if coming out of the Syracuse game last year Murry Bartow had said "We played hard?" We'd crucify him on here for that kind of cliche!
D- Is Cleveland, Tennessee considering giving their high school basketball program a 6,000 seat arena- thus putting $13.5 million of needed repairs on a school system? Is the reason given that said high school basketball program had a sellout against their arch-rival so they needed more seats?
E- Does Cleveland High football so overshawdow the other sports at the school that the other sports have to play in a dilapitated 75-year old arena?
I could go on and on.
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - RodShaw2 - 07-15-2008 09:34 AM
Pitt, you hate Science Hill and the Arby's Classic, we get it.
People identify with the hometown high school sports teams. It happens all over the country.
You coming from Pennsylvania should know that with the love for High School football in that state. All though out the South High School football is an important part of small towns. Indiana and Kentucky have High School basketball. I don't see near the passion for Science Hill basketball as you seem to believe compared to most of those areas. In fact I would say Arby's Classic not withstanding High School Football is king in the region much more so then basketball.
I really don't understand why you continue to trot out this same tired rant but we have all seen it many times before, we get it. I certainly don't agree with you but do you have keep posting the same crap over and over?
Quote:I could go on and on
Trust me you already have but I also know that you will keep going on and on and on..
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - PittsburghBucs - 07-15-2008 11:09 AM
I don't believe I've ever actually done a search of all the former stars at Science Hill.
You fail to see my point, and yet you reinforce it, Rod.
This is a metro area of 455,000 people or so. It is a Top 100 market (or maybe 101).
So why do we continue to act like it is some place like Dixie, West Virginia? Why do we act like such Townies?
Yeah- I imagine to some backwoods hick town with 2,000 people in it that you have to drive 25 miles to the nearest Wal-Mart- high school sports are king. It's all they have.
But shouldn't we strive to be a LITTLE more cosmopolitan than that?
It's more than the fact I find local high school basketball to be uncompetitive and overblown.
It's the fact we have other sports around here- yet we place such importance on Science Hill basketball we may actually spend millions to refurbish a decaying old barn like Freedom Hall so they can get out of the high school gym they have.
It's not just "We should focus more on ETSU." I'm not even sure we should.
But it's we could have so much more here. It's wondering if Roosevelt Memorial Stadium- a dump that doesn't have 1/2 of what Memorial Center had going for it- wasn't so romanticized if ETSU football would still exist.
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - RodShaw2 - 07-15-2008 11:31 AM
That metro area you are talking about is broken up into many smaller communities each with it own high school that it pulls for. There aren't many Science Hill fans in Kingsport or Gate City.
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - PittsburghBucs - 07-15-2008 11:49 AM
And your point is what?
Mine is that we should all stop acting like such townies.
You seem to think such a mindset is utopia.
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - Goldfinger - 07-15-2008 02:07 PM
Science Hill....much like life....is overrated.
There's two reasons why those kids never made it.....one is that they were overrated....the other is that they were nothing more than thugs.
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - RodShaw2 - 07-15-2008 02:28 PM
Goldfinger Wrote:Science Hill....much like life....is overrated.
There's two reasons why those kids never made it.....one is that they were overrated....the other is that they were nothing more than thugs.
Thats pretty harsh, so you knew each and everyone of those kids to make that judgement?
R
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - Goldfinger - 07-15-2008 03:07 PM
I knew plenty of them
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - Buccaneerlover - 07-15-2008 09:02 PM
What does Science Hill or any of those derelects have to do with ETSU sports again?
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - PittsburghBucs - 07-16-2008 07:27 AM
Lover- It's more of a comparison.
It's perhaps a reprieve for ETSU over the years for not bringing in the Science Hill stars, as they didn't have the grades.
It's wondering why George Pitts is held in as high regard as Ed DeChellis, Murry Bartow, Alan LeForce, and Les Robinson around here.
It's a comment that perhaps the reason we don't have football is because football is not held in as high regard as basketball in Johnson City.
It's literally begging the City to not give a $13.5 million burden on the school system and instead just leveling Freedom Hall and developing a new arena. If Science Hill and Dobyns-Bennett is capable of selling out- fine- move the game to the new arena. But evidently the academics at Science Hill cannot withstand the financial hit of "YOU FIX THE PLACE!"
I'd much rather see that money given to increased salaries for people like Wade.
It's a wake up to say that perhaps Johnson City should not think like townies crazy about their high school basketball team and instead should wonder "Hey, why can't ETSU put us on the national map? And why can't we have REAL minor league baseball, or pro hockey, or indoor football, or weekly series racing, or the CBA, etc.?"
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - Buccaneerlover - 07-17-2008 03:33 PM
Is it George Pitts' fault that players were casually passed because they could bounce a basketball?
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - PittsburghBucs - 07-17-2008 05:11 PM
Would you have promoted such a guy to principal?
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - Buccaneerlover - 07-17-2008 09:12 PM
It happens all the time. Coach A has a winning season, he must make a great administrator. Nevermind the fact that the same coach/teacher taught freaking GYM! I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it happens.
RE: Whatever happened to these Science Hill stars? - PittsburghBucs - 07-19-2008 10:05 AM
Name one.
Oh, sure, I mean I could tell you Sam Humphries was the head football coach at Happy Valley in the 60s.
For about a year. He wasn't promoted to administrative duties because of his won-loss record.
Is Graham Clark going to be the principal at Dobyns-Bennett?
If winning gym teachers are being promoted because they are winning gym teachers- despite the fact none of their students are doing well in gym- something is wrong.
Then again, I do believe Murry Bartow would be an improvement if selected the next ETSU President.