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Pages: 1 2
- georgia_tech_swagger - 05-06-2003 05:48 PM
The ACC football old money (GT,CU,FSU) will be in deep sh*t if the ACC expands to include Miami and two other pretty good teams in either VT, BC or Syracuse.
The 3 old money schools, if they didn't improve any, would find themselves waving hello to Duke in the cellar.
If the ACC expands.... I think GT and CU would especially get hit hard with their current slides from glory they had in and around 2000.
- MsNole - 05-06-2003 06:11 PM
GTS - I don't know why you insist on including FSU in your school list of those who should be worried. FSU has beaten Virginia Tech on many occasions including the National Championship. Miami is always a very good rivalry. We've played and beaten Boston College in the past. I think it's Georgia Tech who should be worrying about adding good competition to the ACC :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
- georgia_tech_swagger - 05-06-2003 09:17 PM
If you don't think FSU is off from their ACC thrown-ship of the late '90s -- perhaps you should try some non-garnet colored spectacles.
- Liberty Tiger Fan - 05-07-2003 05:57 AM
I am going to have to agree with Swagger on this one. Although I wouldn't classify FSU as worrying, I would be more inclined to classify them as..............
Undercoached
Extremely talented and unmotivated
Uncharacteristically soft
Undisciplined
Living off of the past.
I would say that over the course of the last 3 years, not only has the program slipped, but they have also shown a penchant for a lack of administrative control with regards to their players.
- DawgNBama - 05-07-2003 07:02 AM
FSU has definitely slipped some in recent years. Do not forget that NC State did what Bobby Bowden (and the rest of the ACC for that matter) probably considered the impossible at one time: beating FSU in Tally. Not only that, the Wolfpack also beat the 'Noles in Raleigh the following year. If NC State pulls off the three-peat, FSU is going waaay down, and it will be very hard to get a good young coach to want to coach in St. Bobby's shadow. :ninja:
- SamuraiTater - 05-07-2003 07:47 AM
Expansion may be hard on CU initially, as the talent gap would be at it's widest. With time, I could see Clemson improving, as many of the kids we recruit are also being recruited by UM. UM on our schedule can only help to lure athletes who are looking for an opportunity to play in the big games. We certainly don't lose any more to the bigger programs than the ones we already do.
<!--EDIT|SamuraiTater|May 7 2003, 08:57 AM-->
- MsNole - 05-07-2003 09:09 AM
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:If you don't think FSU is off from their ACC thrown-ship of the late '90s -- perhaps you should try some non-garnet colored spectacles.My garnet colored glasses aren't scratched like you would like to believe. For a school that plays the Canes year in and year out, what do the Noles have to fret about. It's the Georgia Techs, etc., that should be fretting. So what if Chuck Amato's NC State is beating us. Isn't that what was suppose to happen to the other ACC schools? Bringing in FSU was to strengthen the ACC schools in football so they wouldn't just be known as a basketball conference.
And as far as baseball goes, who is #1 - oh yeah, it's the Seminoles!!!
I'm all for Miami and 2 other schools to join the ACC conference!
:wave: :wave: :wave: <span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%'><span style='color:red'>Do the Warchant</span></span> :wave: :wave: :wave:
- georgia_tech_swagger - 05-07-2003 04:08 PM
How did baseball come into this? Does Tommy coach baseball, too??
I don't care what your perception may be of the status of FSU... but to the non-bias fan, FSU is down. Granted, not very far down. HOWEVER, with the addition of three teams of good to great calibur, that makes the ACC nearly twice as top heavy. The difference between the haves and havenots would become very large, very fast.
After expansion, it's get better, or get gone.
FSU has NOT been getting better of the last 3 years.
I do not argue the fact that GT football is in a state of disarray to some extent, much like Clemson. I do not argue that schools like GT and CU have the most at stake. However, FSU is also suspect to being upended if the ACC expands.
I find it interesting that the ACC football "old money" (GT, CU, FSU) have all slipped to some extent over the last 3 years. What does that mean when expansion comes knocking??
<!--EDIT|georgia_tech_swagger|May 8 2003, 12:26 PM-->
- JoltinJacket - 05-07-2003 08:47 PM
IMO, you're only as good as your assistant coaches. Clemson is learning that since Rich Rodriguez left. Tech learned that after the Fridge left. FSU has really begun to return to Earth since Amato and Richt left. The thing with FSU is they had so much talent stocked up in the cubbard that it isn't hurting them quite as much and CU and GT, but it's still beginning to catch up with them.
Case in point - FSU's first draft pick was #54 overall this year. In years past, they would have 5-10 players taken in the top 54.
- DawgNBama - 05-08-2003 08:08 AM
JoltinJacket Wrote:IMO, you're only as good as your assistant coaches. Clemson is learning that since Rich Rodriguez left. Tech learned that after the Fridge left. FSU has really begun to return to Earth since Amato and Richt left. The thing with FSU is they had so much talent stocked up in the cubbard that it isn't hurting them quite as much and CU and GT, but it's still beginning to catch up with them.And I'd like to point out that Auburn learned this back during Terry Bowden's years, when Tommy Bowden left. When Tommy Bowden departed, AU's program went downhill fast.
Case in point - FSU's first draft pick was #54 overall this year. In years past, they would have 5-10 players taken in the top 54.
- SamuraiTater - 05-08-2003 09:07 AM
JoltinJacket Wrote:IMO, you're only as good as your assistant coaches. Clemson is learning that since Rich Rodriguez left. Tech learned that after the Fridge left. FSU has really begun to return to Earth since Amato and Richt left. The thing with FSU is they had so much talent stocked up in the cubbard that it isn't hurting them quite as much and CU and GT, but it's still beginning to catch up with them.I've heard that Rich-Rod argument too many times. Please back it up with sound logic. Incidently, simply comparing seasonal records of 1999 to any subsequent season does not constitute sound logic.
Case in point - FSU's first draft pick was #54 overall this year. In years past, they would have 5-10 players taken in the top 54.
Tell me what it was that Rich Rodriguez did for Clemson's offense, so that we may know what's been missing since his departure. If the guy was so magical, there must have been something significant about his play calling, right ? Fill me in, if you would please.
- MsNole - 05-08-2003 04:12 PM
Liberty Tiger Fan Wrote:I am going to have to agree with Swagger on this one. Although I wouldn't classify FSU as worrying, I would be more inclined to classify them as..............Hmmmmm, you say the last 3 years... a little history lesson for you
Undercoached
Extremely talented and unmotivated
Uncharacteristically soft
Undisciplined
Living off of the past.
I would say that over the course of the last 3 years, not only has the program slipped, but they have also shown a penchant for a lack of administrative control with regards to their players.
2000 - Seminoles go 11-2 and were ranked #5 in the country
2001 - Seminoles go 8-4 and were ranked #15 in the country.
2002 - Seminoles go 9-5 (oops, I had 8-5 - forgetting that we played 13 regular season games, including Miami, Notre Dame, Iowa State).
How many school wish they had an 8 and 4 record???
:rolleyes:
<!--EDIT|MsNole|May 8 2003, 10:34 PM-->
- georgia_tech_swagger - 05-08-2003 05:52 PM
Note: the record got worse each year, and the strangle hold on the ACC vanished.
Thank you for proving my pt. for me.
- MsNole - 05-08-2003 09:35 PM
georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:Note: the record got worse each year, and the strangle hold on the ACC vanished.The strangle hold - what strangle hold - oh GTS, you must be talking about whipping every team every year. So the only one that has beaten FSU for 2 straight years in NC State and did they win the ACC conference last year? No, it was Florida State University. And Maryland won it the year before. I guess if FSU played patsy teams like The Citadel or Connecticut, instead of Miami, Colorado or Notre Dame, we could have a 11-2 record every year too... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Thank you for proving my pt. for me.
<!--EDIT|MsNole|May 8 2003, 10:42 PM-->
- Liberty Tiger Fan - 05-09-2003 05:39 AM
[quote="MsNole"][quote="Liberty Tiger Fan"]I am going to have to agree with Swagger on this one.
- SamuraiTater - 05-09-2003 09:26 AM
JoltinJacket Wrote:IMO, you're only as good as your assistant coaches. Clemson is learning that since Rich Rodriguez left.Time to revisit this comment and combat it with sound logic.
For the record, all Rich Rodriguez installed was a shoot-from-the-hip, free-wheeling type of offense. Not extraordinary in the least, but contrarily quite limited. In 1999, with limited skill players, he and Tommy Bowden resorted to using a break-neck pace no-huddle offense out of pure necessity. The philosphy was simple. Run as fast as you can, (almost never audibling a play change at the line) and take your chances against a defense which may or may not be set. The fast pace helps late in the game, as defenses take more time getting set. Each play was nothing more than a roll of the dice. We had an OK pocket style passer in Brandon Streeter who was effective at delivering the ball to recievers on short routes. He also took a beating many times and continued to hang around in the pocket. This whole offensive scheme was new , so none of our opponents had any film on us until the season got underway.
2000 was different still in that we switched from a pocket passer to something no one had seen in ages; a very mobile QB running a single wing. Again, this was out of necessity. Woody Dantzler was one of those athletes with rare talent you just had to use. He was not very effective throwing the ball, but man could he run between the tackles! Again, this is a new offensive scheme which none of our opponents were prepared for.....and it showed.
2001 differed in that our opponents did their homework and found a way to nuetralize the Heisman hopefull. Actually, UNC exposed us first with a good defensive strategy that even average defenses could employ. All you needed was decent cover men in the seconday and you could play this game too. The trick was to simply force Dantzler to use his achilles heel,...his throwing arm. This could easily be done by not rushing your linebackers north and south at him, but rather just shadowing Dantzler east and west and goobering up the running lanes. Let the linebackers lie in wait while the defensive ends eventually closed in. He either runs into the trap or he tosses errant pass after errant pass. :cuss:
Where was the genious of Rich Rodriguez in any of those seasons, I ask you ??? Where is the genious of Rich Rodriguez at Morgantown ??? Nothing against Rich-Rod at all. I think he's a fine coach and I appreciate everything he did for us. I also wish him the best at WVU or anywhere else. I just think he recieves far too much credit for Clemsons success, from 1999 to 2000.
Got any more cheese you wanna' serve up there, meat ? I'll hit it over the centerfield fence too.
- MsNole - 05-09-2003 10:46 AM
[quote="Liberty Tiger Fan"][quote="MsNole"][quote="Liberty Tiger Fan"]I am going to have to agree with Swagger on this one.
- DawgNBama - 05-09-2003 11:10 AM
Ok Ms Nole, who do you think FSU could get to fill Bobby's shoes, once he's gone? Ever thought about that? If you say Mack Brown or Chuck Amato, I'd say you'd be wrong on both counts.
- JoltinJacket - 05-09-2003 01:39 PM
SamuraiTater Wrote:Didn't mean to ruffle any Tiger fur by saying that. I'm no expert on the goings-on at Clemson. I was just saying that by what I saw in 1999 (which was a complete turn-around from 3-8 in '98), 2000 (the 8-0 start), and last year at WVU (leading them to a bowl game and an 8 or 9 win season when Clemson has gone 14-12 in two years without him).JoltinJacket Wrote:IMO, you're only as good as your assistant coaches. Clemson is learning that since Rich Rodriguez left.Time to revisit this comment and combat it with sound logic.
Got any more cheese you wanna' serve up there, meat ? I'll hit it over the centerfield fence too.
- SamuraiTater - 05-09-2003 05:51 PM
You didn't really rub my fur the wrong way, JJ. I've just heard the same "Miracle Rich-Rod" theory many times over and I have yet to see anyone post any reasoning for naming Coach Rodriguez a saint......other than comparative seasonal records.
I do think he has one of the better offensive minds out there. However, the system he and Bowden intended to install at CU was only in the beginning stages in 1999, for lack of enough skill players and lack of time to teach the system. With the advent of Woody Dantzler at the helm, work on the project had to be delayed simply because Dantzler's talents did not fit into the scheme (As a QB anyway). Neither Bowden or Rodriguez intended to install a "Single-Wing" as a permanent offense at CU. I have always held to the idea that both Clemson and Dantzler would have been better served if they would have played him at a slot reciever. Once loose in the open field, Dantzler was lethal. The problem in 2001 was getting him into that position.
Your philosophy may be true concerning Frigeon (sp?). I don't know much about him, but what I hear is that he was the brainchild behind creating a playbook so vast, defenses couldn't possibly prepare for all of it.