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CAA exit fee
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stever20 Online
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Post: #21
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 12:54 PM)GreenMississippi Wrote:  The WAC is about to collapse with the loss of Utah St (MWC) and likely LA Tech (Sun Belt) and probably SJSU (MWC), possibly NMSU (Sun Belt). No CAA school will go there.

The Virginia schools is why the CAA didn't meet today. Look for VCU, GMU... and I suspect ODU for various reasons to go to the A-10. JMU will jump to the MAC or Sun Belt before ODU can, but in the meantime will have a FCS home similar to the CAA. William and Mary will go to the Patriot.

CAA/A-10 football will exist in some form as a home for the FCS schools even if CAA all-sports collapses. There are enough non-CAA members in CAA football for them to be unable to punish current members for jumping.

I'm not so sure about CAA football..
Delaware
James Madison
Maine
New Hampshire
Old Dominion
Richmond
Towson
William & Mary

If ODU and JMU are gone, that takes the conference down to only 6. If W&M goes patriot, that leaves only 5. Delaware, Maine, New Hampshire, Richmond, and Towson. Kind of tough to see that surviving.
04-10-2012 01:54 PM
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GreenMississippi Offline
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Post: #22
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 01:54 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:54 PM)GreenMississippi Wrote:  CAA/A-10 football will exist in some form as a home for the FCS schools even if CAA all-sports collapses. There are enough non-CAA members in CAA football for them to be unable to punish current members for jumping.

I'm not so sure about CAA football..

If ODU and JMU are gone, that takes the conference down to only 6. If W&M goes patriot, that leaves only 5. Delaware, Maine, New Hampshire, Richmond, and Towson. Kind of tough to see that surviving.
The A10 has had football before, and may again. It's just semantics what conference (CAA or A10) is doing the administrative work.

I haven't heard about ODU pushing for the exit fee. More about commissioner Yeager pushing for (and incorrectly predicting) course of events.

If VCU and GMU (and possibly GWU and U of R) push for ODU (located 25 miles from A10 conference headquarters) to join the A-10, both will strongly consider it. It is a large untapped metro they don't have inroads, geographic and rivalry sense, and a strong history. Plus they are likely to lose Charlotte anyways and why not get a replacement pre-emptively?
04-10-2012 02:12 PM
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LastMinuteman Offline
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Post: #23
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 12:57 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:48 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:41 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  [The WAC has] the 8+ needed in all-sports. They need at least 1 football-only to remain a viable FBS conference.

UT-Arlington, Seattle, Denver aren't all sports. They don't play football. WAC as is need 1 more all sports including football.

Thanks. I was under the mistaken impression that if a school doesn't sponsor football on any level that it would be considered an all-sports member. Sucks for the WAC.

They are considered all-sports members. What the other posters are talking about is a FBS-specific provision in the NCAA rule book that, to qualify as a FBS conference, at least 8 FBS-playing members must also play a certain minimum number of other men's and women's sports in the conference. The number is large enough that it works out to them needing to be "all-sports" members. That doesn't mean the non-football playing members aren't all-sports members, they just don't satisfy the requirements of the FBS-specific provision.

Note that FCS doesn't have this requirement, nor does any other NCAA sport as far as I know (maybe basketball?). 6 football-only members are sufficient to qualify as an official FCS conference, and the same goes for most other sports. The FBS-specific rules are another recent change intended to artificially inflate the expense of FBS and make it more difficult for any upstarts to challenge the ancient power conferences. Otherwise you could gather the 8 best remaining football teams across the country into a football-only conference while their other sports are played in regional conferences to minimize travel costs. The Big Tens of the world don't want that, and they know there aren't 8 strong football programs left that are grouped close enough together to form an affordable all-sports conference. Even the Big 12, ACC and Big East have had to expand way beyond their original geographic footprints to find quality programs. The MWC/CUSA alliance represents the last gasp attempt to try to beat the system.
04-10-2012 02:53 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #24
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 02:53 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:57 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:48 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:41 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  [The WAC has] the 8+ needed in all-sports. They need at least 1 football-only to remain a viable FBS conference.

UT-Arlington, Seattle, Denver aren't all sports. They don't play football. WAC as is need 1 more all sports including football.

Thanks. I was under the mistaken impression that if a school doesn't sponsor football on any level that it would be considered an all-sports member. Sucks for the WAC.

They are considered all-sports members. What the other posters are talking about is a FBS-specific provision in the NCAA rule book that, to qualify as a FBS conference, at least 8 FBS-playing members must also play a certain minimum number of other men's and women's sports in the conference. The number is large enough that it works out to them needing to be "all-sports" members. That doesn't mean the non-football playing members aren't all-sports members, they just don't satisfy the requirements of the FBS-specific provision.

Note that FCS doesn't have this requirement, nor does any other NCAA sport as far as I know (maybe basketball?). 6 football-only members are sufficient to qualify as an official FCS conference, and the same goes for most other sports. The FBS-specific rules are another recent change intended to artificially inflate the expense of FBS and make it more difficult for any upstarts to challenge the ancient power conferences. Otherwise you could gather the 8 best remaining football teams across the country into a football-only conference while their other sports are played in regional conferences to minimize travel costs. The Big Tens of the world don't want that, and they know there aren't 8 strong football programs left that are grouped close enough together to form an affordable all-sports conference. Even the Big 12, ACC and Big East have had to expand way beyond their original geographic footprints to find quality programs. The MWC/CUSA alliance represents the last gasp attempt to try to beat the system.
NCAA Division 1 conference minimums:

FBS: 8 all-sports members that play 6 men's sports (including football and basketball) and 8 women's sports (including basketball and 2 other team sports)

FCS: 7 members that play 6 men's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and either football or 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools]) and 6 women's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools])

The NCAA also allows a 2-year grace period for a conference to return to full membership, should a school withdraw to force non-compliance.

But there's a catch, the NCAA requires all D1 teams to offer 16 sports, but conferences only have to offer competition in 14 (FBS) or 12 (FCS), hence the reason schools play in more than one conference in some instances.
04-10-2012 03:16 PM
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stever20 Online
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Post: #25
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 03:16 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 02:53 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:57 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:48 PM)stever20 Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:41 PM)Howl-n-Prowl Wrote:  [The WAC has] the 8+ needed in all-sports. They need at least 1 football-only to remain a viable FBS conference.

UT-Arlington, Seattle, Denver aren't all sports. They don't play football. WAC as is need 1 more all sports including football.

Thanks. I was under the mistaken impression that if a school doesn't sponsor football on any level that it would be considered an all-sports member. Sucks for the WAC.

They are considered all-sports members. What the other posters are talking about is a FBS-specific provision in the NCAA rule book that, to qualify as a FBS conference, at least 8 FBS-playing members must also play a certain minimum number of other men's and women's sports in the conference. The number is large enough that it works out to them needing to be "all-sports" members. That doesn't mean the non-football playing members aren't all-sports members, they just don't satisfy the requirements of the FBS-specific provision.

Note that FCS doesn't have this requirement, nor does any other NCAA sport as far as I know (maybe basketball?). 6 football-only members are sufficient to qualify as an official FCS conference, and the same goes for most other sports. The FBS-specific rules are another recent change intended to artificially inflate the expense of FBS and make it more difficult for any upstarts to challenge the ancient power conferences. Otherwise you could gather the 8 best remaining football teams across the country into a football-only conference while their other sports are played in regional conferences to minimize travel costs. The Big Tens of the world don't want that, and they know there aren't 8 strong football programs left that are grouped close enough together to form an affordable all-sports conference. Even the Big 12, ACC and Big East have had to expand way beyond their original geographic footprints to find quality programs. The MWC/CUSA alliance represents the last gasp attempt to try to beat the system.
NCAA Division 1 conference minimums:

FBS: 8 all-sports members that play 6 men's sports (including football and basketball) and 8 women's sports (including basketball and 2 other team sports)

FCS: 7 members that play 6 men's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and either football or 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools]) and 6 women's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools])

The NCAA also allows a 2-year grace period for a conference to return to full membership, should a school withdraw to force non-compliance.

But there's a catch, the NCAA requires all D1 teams to offer 16 sports, but conferences only have to offer competition in 14 (FBS) or 12 (FCS), hence the reason schools play in more than one conference in some instances.

One thing that is interesting- 2 year grace period. So WAC would need to be up to 8 all sports teams for the 2014-15 season.
04-10-2012 03:21 PM
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blunderbuss Offline
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Post: #26
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 01:17 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:54 PM)GreenMississippi Wrote:  The WAC is about to collapse with the loss of Utah St (MWC) and likely LA Tech (Sun Belt) and probably SJSU (MWC), possibly NMSU (Sun Belt). No CAA school will go there.

The Virginia schools is why the CAA didn't meet today. Look for VCU, GMU... and I suspect ODU for various reasons to go to the A-10. JMU will jump to the MAC or Sun Belt before ODU can, but in the meantime will have a FCS home similar to the CAA. William and Mary will go to the Patriot.

CAA/A-10 football will exist in some form as a home for the FCS schools even if CAA all-sports collapses. There are enough non-CAA members in CAA football for them to be unable to punish current members for jumping.

Since ODU was the one pushing this, I doubt they are looking to move.

Of course, this could be nothing - inability to get all the Presidents together on short notice.

Or, a way to get the Sunbelt to take Georgia State off their hands, and improve the conference


ODU was pushing this? Please explain.....

That's tough to believe since they seem interested in moving up to FBS eventually.
04-10-2012 03:36 PM
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Post: #27
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 10:48 AM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 10:40 AM)stever20 Wrote:  I wouldn't say it's about to fall apart. I think it's questionable as to whether the A10 would expand up to 14 or 16. If VCU/GMU don't go, JMU and ODU are probably too far away for the Sun Belt, and not sure if the MAC would want them.

If anything- the biggest threat to the CAA might be believe it or not the WAC. If they take ODU, JMU, Delaware for football, then GMU and VCU for basketball(adding 3 other eastern football schools)- you have the conference gutted. And- guess who would be empowering the WAC to do something like this? ESPN, getting back at the CAA for going to NBC.

That's funny. Assuming ESPN actually cares about the CAA. 03-lmfao

If ESPN is truly bent on keeping NBC out of college sports entirely, this is sure a messy way to do it. And I can't believe the WAC would take any eastern FCS schools for anything other than football-only.

ESPN announced that the CAA will not be in the bracketbusters next season, assuming because of the NBC deal.
04-10-2012 03:38 PM
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Blue_Trombone Offline
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Post: #28
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 03:36 PM)blunderbuss Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 01:17 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:54 PM)GreenMississippi Wrote:  The WAC is about to collapse with the loss of Utah St (MWC) and likely LA Tech (Sun Belt) and probably SJSU (MWC), possibly NMSU (Sun Belt). No CAA school will go there.

The Virginia schools is why the CAA didn't meet today. Look for VCU, GMU... and I suspect ODU for various reasons to go to the A-10. JMU will jump to the MAC or Sun Belt before ODU can, but in the meantime will have a FCS home similar to the CAA. William and Mary will go to the Patriot.

CAA/A-10 football will exist in some form as a home for the FCS schools even if CAA all-sports collapses. There are enough non-CAA members in CAA football for them to be unable to punish current members for jumping.

Since ODU was the one pushing this, I doubt they are looking to move.

Of course, this could be nothing - inability to get all the Presidents together on short notice.

Or, a way to get the Sunbelt to take Georgia State off their hands, and improve the conference


ODU was pushing this? Please explain.....

That's tough to believe since they seem interested in moving up to FBS eventually.

I haven't seen it in any article or official document. This rumor came about as a 'he said, she said' with the first post coming from the CAA zone saying that he heard that Litos (someone involved with CAA sports) said that the ODU AD Wood Selig was pushing for it.

I'm not sure if I believe that or not.
04-10-2012 03:48 PM
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LastMinuteman Offline
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Post: #29
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 03:16 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  NCAA Division 1 conference minimums:

FBS: 8 all-sports members that play 6 men's sports (including football and basketball) and 8 women's sports (including basketball and 2 other team sports)

FCS: 7 members that play 6 men's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and either football or 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools]) and 6 women's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools])

The NCAA also allows a 2-year grace period for a conference to return to full membership, should a school withdraw to force non-compliance.

But there's a catch, the NCAA requires all D1 teams to offer 16 sports, but conferences only have to offer competition in 14 (FBS) or 12 (FCS), hence the reason schools play in more than one conference in some instances.

That description of "FCS" must be for a "non-FBS all-sports conference", not a FCS football conference. Off the top of my head I can name 5 FCS football conferences that wouldn't fulfill that requirement if 7 members were required to play most sports together. All but 1 of the 5 I'm thinking of have AQs to the playoffs, which means that the NCAA recognizes them as official FCS conferences.

Also, non-FBS Division I members are only required to sponsor 14 sports total, whether inside or outside of their conference. FBS requires 16, for no reason other than to inflate expenses.

EDITED TO ADD: Here are the FCS conferences I'm thinking of:

CAA: 6 all-sports, 5 football-only (5/4 after GSU and URI leave)
MVC: 5 all-sports, 4 football-only
Big South: 6 all-sports, 1 football-only
Patriot: 5 all-sports, 2 football-only
Pioneer: 10 football-only

The Pioneer is the one without an AQ, but AFAIK they are eligible for one and just didn't apply because they're non-scholarship and would get crushed.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2012 04:50 PM by LastMinuteman.)
04-10-2012 04:35 PM
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hburg Offline
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RE: CAA exit fee
Maybe JMU was one of the no shows today at the CAA meeting today. Per Mark Selig - a JMU beat writer
Quote:JMU athletic director Jeff Bourne said he and President Linwood Rose have not made a decision on how they'll vote on CAA exit fee hike.
(This post was last modified: 04-10-2012 05:36 PM by hburg.)
04-10-2012 05:35 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #31
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 04:35 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 03:16 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  NCAA Division 1 conference minimums:

FBS: 8 all-sports members that play 6 men's sports (including football and basketball) and 8 women's sports (including basketball and 2 other team sports)

FCS: 7 members that play 6 men's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and either football or 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools]) and 6 women's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools])

The NCAA also allows a 2-year grace period for a conference to return to full membership, should a school withdraw to force non-compliance.

But there's a catch, the NCAA requires all D1 teams to offer 16 sports, but conferences only have to offer competition in 14 (FBS) or 12 (FCS), hence the reason schools play in more than one conference in some instances.

That description of "FCS" must be for a "non-FBS all-sports conference", not a FCS football conference. Off the top of my head I can name 5 FCS football conferences that wouldn't fulfill that requirement if 7 members were required to play most sports together. All but 1 of the 5 I'm thinking of have AQs to the playoffs, which means that the NCAA recognizes them as official FCS conferences.

Also, non-FBS Division I members are only required to sponsor 14 sports total, whether inside or outside of their conference. FBS requires 16, for no reason other than to inflate expenses.

EDITED TO ADD: Here are the FCS conferences I'm thinking of:

CAA: 6 all-sports, 5 football-only (5/4 after GSU and URI leave)
MVC: 5 all-sports, 4 football-only
Big South: 6 all-sports, 1 football-only
Patriot: 5 all-sports, 2 football-only
Pioneer: 10 football-only

The Pioneer is the one without an AQ, but AFAIK they are eligible for one and just didn't apply because they're non-scholarship and would get crushed.
You're right FCS should read non-FBS, but the intent is the same. And the non-FBS D1 requirement is 14 sports for a school, not 16. I read that wrong.

I was just reading from the NCAA bylaws for Division 1 (this is superceded for FBS conferences):

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men’s and women’s basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men’s sports, one of which shall be men’s basketball. In addition to men’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men’s team sports. A
minimum of seven members shall sponsor men’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men’s team sports; and
© The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women’s sports, one of which shall be women’s basketball. In addition to women’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women’s team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women’s team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).


Nowhere does it say that the non-FBS conference must be all-sports, just that it include at least 7 teams for both men's and women's basketball with 6 of those 7 playing at least 5 other men's sports (incl. football or 2 other team sports) and 5 other women's sports (2 team sports). It does not specify that any of those other sports must be the same 5.

I'm not going to waste my time with each of those, but the CAA has 12 for men's basketball, of which 8 play at least 6 other men's sports in conference.

The Pioneer League has never been recognized by the NCAA because it is only a football-only conference. The Great West has also never been recognized because of other membership issues.
04-10-2012 09:03 PM
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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Post: #32
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 09:03 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 04:35 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 03:16 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  NCAA Division 1 conference minimums:

FBS: 8 all-sports members that play 6 men's sports (including football and basketball) and 8 women's sports (including basketball and 2 other team sports)

FCS: 7 members that play 6 men's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and either football or 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools]) and 6 women's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools])

The NCAA also allows a 2-year grace period for a conference to return to full membership, should a school withdraw to force non-compliance.

But there's a catch, the NCAA requires all D1 teams to offer 16 sports, but conferences only have to offer competition in 14 (FBS) or 12 (FCS), hence the reason schools play in more than one conference in some instances.

That description of "FCS" must be for a "non-FBS all-sports conference", not a FCS football conference. Off the top of my head I can name 5 FCS football conferences that wouldn't fulfill that requirement if 7 members were required to play most sports together. All but 1 of the 5 I'm thinking of have AQs to the playoffs, which means that the NCAA recognizes them as official FCS conferences.

Also, non-FBS Division I members are only required to sponsor 14 sports total, whether inside or outside of their conference. FBS requires 16, for no reason other than to inflate expenses.

EDITED TO ADD: Here are the FCS conferences I'm thinking of:

CAA: 6 all-sports, 5 football-only (5/4 after GSU and URI leave)
MVC: 5 all-sports, 4 football-only
Big South: 6 all-sports, 1 football-only
Patriot: 5 all-sports, 2 football-only
Pioneer: 10 football-only

The Pioneer is the one without an AQ, but AFAIK they are eligible for one and just didn't apply because they're non-scholarship and would get crushed.
You're right FCS should read non-FBS, but the intent is the same. And the non-FBS D1 requirement is 14 sports for a school, not 16. I read that wrong.

I was just reading from the NCAA bylaws for Division 1 (this is superceded for FBS conferences):

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men’s and women’s basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men’s sports, one of which shall be men’s basketball. In addition to men’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men’s team sports. A
minimum of seven members shall sponsor men’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men’s team sports; and
© The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women’s sports, one of which shall be women’s basketball. In addition to women’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women’s team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women’s team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).


Nowhere does it say that the non-FBS conference must be all-sports, just that it include at least 7 teams for both men's and women's basketball with 6 of those 7 playing at least 5 other men's sports (incl. football or 2 other team sports) and 5 other women's sports (2 team sports). It does not specify that any of those other sports must be the same 5.

I'm not going to waste my time with each of those, but the CAA has 12 for men's basketball, of which 8 play at least 6 other men's sports in conference.

The Pioneer League has never been recognized by the NCAA because it is only a football-only conference. The Great West has also never been recognized because of other membership issues.

I didn't want to tell you about the 14 vs 16 for fear we'd go on about it for 5 pages and/or maybe the rule changed again.04-cheers
04-10-2012 09:37 PM
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CommuterBob Offline
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Post: #33
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 09:37 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 09:03 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 04:35 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 03:16 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  NCAA Division 1 conference minimums:

FBS: 8 all-sports members that play 6 men's sports (including football and basketball) and 8 women's sports (including basketball and 2 other team sports)

FCS: 7 members that play 6 men's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and either football or 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools]) and 6 women's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools])

The NCAA also allows a 2-year grace period for a conference to return to full membership, should a school withdraw to force non-compliance.

But there's a catch, the NCAA requires all D1 teams to offer 16 sports, but conferences only have to offer competition in 14 (FBS) or 12 (FCS), hence the reason schools play in more than one conference in some instances.

That description of "FCS" must be for a "non-FBS all-sports conference", not a FCS football conference. Off the top of my head I can name 5 FCS football conferences that wouldn't fulfill that requirement if 7 members were required to play most sports together. All but 1 of the 5 I'm thinking of have AQs to the playoffs, which means that the NCAA recognizes them as official FCS conferences.

Also, non-FBS Division I members are only required to sponsor 14 sports total, whether inside or outside of their conference. FBS requires 16, for no reason other than to inflate expenses.

EDITED TO ADD: Here are the FCS conferences I'm thinking of:

CAA: 6 all-sports, 5 football-only (5/4 after GSU and URI leave)
MVC: 5 all-sports, 4 football-only
Big South: 6 all-sports, 1 football-only
Patriot: 5 all-sports, 2 football-only
Pioneer: 10 football-only

The Pioneer is the one without an AQ, but AFAIK they are eligible for one and just didn't apply because they're non-scholarship and would get crushed.
You're right FCS should read non-FBS, but the intent is the same. And the non-FBS D1 requirement is 14 sports for a school, not 16. I read that wrong.

I was just reading from the NCAA bylaws for Division 1 (this is superceded for FBS conferences):

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men’s and women’s basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men’s sports, one of which shall be men’s basketball. In addition to men’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men’s team sports. A
minimum of seven members shall sponsor men’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men’s team sports; and
© The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women’s sports, one of which shall be women’s basketball. In addition to women’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women’s team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women’s team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).


Nowhere does it say that the non-FBS conference must be all-sports, just that it include at least 7 teams for both men's and women's basketball with 6 of those 7 playing at least 5 other men's sports (incl. football or 2 other team sports) and 5 other women's sports (2 team sports). It does not specify that any of those other sports must be the same 5.

I'm not going to waste my time with each of those, but the CAA has 12 for men's basketball, of which 8 play at least 6 other men's sports in conference.

The Pioneer League has never been recognized by the NCAA because it is only a football-only conference. The Great West has also never been recognized because of other membership issues.

I didn't want to tell you about the 14 vs 16 for fear we'd go on about it for 5 pages and/or maybe the rule changed again.04-cheers
Naw dude, we're cool. We just got our wires crossed that night.
04-10-2012 09:40 PM
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Fresno St. Alum Offline
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Post: #34
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 09:40 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 09:37 PM)Fresno St. Alum Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 09:03 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 04:35 PM)LastMinuteman Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 03:16 PM)CommuterBob Wrote:  NCAA Division 1 conference minimums:

FBS: 8 all-sports members that play 6 men's sports (including football and basketball) and 8 women's sports (including basketball and 2 other team sports)

FCS: 7 members that play 6 men's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and either football or 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools]) and 6 women's sports (including basketball [at least 7 schools] and 2 other team sports [at least 6 schools])

The NCAA also allows a 2-year grace period for a conference to return to full membership, should a school withdraw to force non-compliance.

But there's a catch, the NCAA requires all D1 teams to offer 16 sports, but conferences only have to offer competition in 14 (FBS) or 12 (FCS), hence the reason schools play in more than one conference in some instances.

That description of "FCS" must be for a "non-FBS all-sports conference", not a FCS football conference. Off the top of my head I can name 5 FCS football conferences that wouldn't fulfill that requirement if 7 members were required to play most sports together. All but 1 of the 5 I'm thinking of have AQs to the playoffs, which means that the NCAA recognizes them as official FCS conferences.

Also, non-FBS Division I members are only required to sponsor 14 sports total, whether inside or outside of their conference. FBS requires 16, for no reason other than to inflate expenses.

EDITED TO ADD: Here are the FCS conferences I'm thinking of:

CAA: 6 all-sports, 5 football-only (5/4 after GSU and URI leave)
MVC: 5 all-sports, 4 football-only
Big South: 6 all-sports, 1 football-only
Patriot: 5 all-sports, 2 football-only
Pioneer: 10 football-only

The Pioneer is the one without an AQ, but AFAIK they are eligible for one and just didn't apply because they're non-scholarship and would get crushed.
You're right FCS should read non-FBS, but the intent is the same. And the non-FBS D1 requirement is 14 sports for a school, not 16. I read that wrong.

I was just reading from the NCAA bylaws for Division 1 (this is superceded for FBS conferences):

20.02.5.1 Minimum Number of Members. A multisport conference shall be composed of at least seven active Division I members. The member conference shall include at least seven active Division I members that sponsor both men’s and women’s basketball. (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
20.02.5.2 Sports Sponsorship. A multisport conference shall satisfy the following requirements: (Adopted: 1/15/11 effective 8/1/11)
(a) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of 12 Division I sports;
(b) The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six men’s sports, one of which shall be men’s basketball. In addition to men’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor football or two other men’s team sports. A
minimum of seven members shall sponsor men’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including football or two additional men’s team sports; and
© The conference shall sponsor a minimum of six women’s sports, one of which shall be women’s basketball. In addition to women’s basketball, the conference shall sponsor two other women’s team sports. A minimum of seven members shall sponsor women’s basketball. A minimum of six members shall sponsor five other sports, including two additional women’s team sports (or a minimum of five members for an emerging sport for women).


Nowhere does it say that the non-FBS conference must be all-sports, just that it include at least 7 teams for both men's and women's basketball with 6 of those 7 playing at least 5 other men's sports (incl. football or 2 other team sports) and 5 other women's sports (2 team sports). It does not specify that any of those other sports must be the same 5.

I'm not going to waste my time with each of those, but the CAA has 12 for men's basketball, of which 8 play at least 6 other men's sports in conference.

The Pioneer League has never been recognized by the NCAA because it is only a football-only conference. The Great West has also never been recognized because of other membership issues.

I didn't want to tell you about the 14 vs 16 for fear we'd go on about it for 5 pages and/or maybe the rule changed again.04-cheers
Naw dude, we're cool. We just got our wires crossed that night.
You are a good contributor, I believe I need to remove a neg rep from you and give you a pos rep!
04-10-2012 09:41 PM
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Post: #35
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 12:54 PM)GreenMississippi Wrote:  The WAC is about to collapse with the loss of Utah St (MWC) and likely LA Tech (Sun Belt) and probably SJSU (MWC), possibly NMSU (Sun Belt). No CAA school will go there.

The Virginia schools is why the CAA didn't meet today. Look for VCU, GMU... and I suspect ODU for various reasons to go to the A-10. JMU will jump to the MAC or Sun Belt before ODU can, but in the meantime will have a FCS home similar to the CAA. William and Mary will go to the Patriot.

CAA/A-10 football will exist in some form as a home for the FCS schools even if CAA all-sports collapses. There are enough non-CAA members in CAA football for them to be unable to punish current members for jumping.

William & Mary to the Patriot. Is that for football only or for all sports? They are a public school. Why would they go to the Patriot where the schools are private with smaller enrollments? I could see Richmond going to the Patriot Conference for football only since they have a similar enrollment as does the Patriot schools. The Patriot Conference just instituted scholarships but I don't think it is the full 65 allowed in FCS.05-nono
04-10-2012 10:48 PM
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hburg Offline
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Post: #36
RE: CAA exit fee
I think both Tribe and Richmond would try and get into the Southern Conference.
04-10-2012 11:09 PM
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Post: #37
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 11:09 PM)jmufan Wrote:  I think both Tribe and Richmond would try and get into the Southern Conference.

Isn't the Patriot allowing schollys now? Plus I don't think the SoCon would add fb only schools. I doubt CAA will die

Worst case
JMU (MAC)
ODU (MAC)
GMU(A10)
VCU(A10)

That leaves 7 all sports and 7 fb members. Liberty, C.Carolina, Stony Brook, UNH(already in for fb), Albany(need to add some schollys).
04-11-2012 04:02 AM
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AtlanticLeague Offline
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Post: #38
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-10-2012 10:48 PM)RUfan03 Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:54 PM)GreenMississippi Wrote:  The WAC is about to collapse with the loss of Utah St (MWC) and likely LA Tech (Sun Belt) and probably SJSU (MWC), possibly NMSU (Sun Belt). No CAA school will go there.

The Virginia schools is why the CAA didn't meet today. Look for VCU, GMU... and I suspect ODU for various reasons to go to the A-10. JMU will jump to the MAC or Sun Belt before ODU can, but in the meantime will have a FCS home similar to the CAA. William and Mary will go to the Patriot.

CAA/A-10 football will exist in some form as a home for the FCS schools even if CAA all-sports collapses. There are enough non-CAA members in CAA football for them to be unable to punish current members for jumping.

William & Mary to the Patriot. Is that for football only or for all sports? They are a public school. Why would they go to the Patriot where the schools are private with smaller enrollments? I could see Richmond going to the Patriot Conference for football only since they have a similar enrollment as does the Patriot schools. The Patriot Conference just instituted scholarships but I don't think it is the full 65 allowed in FCS.05-nono

Army and Navy are also public (and technically all of their students are on scholarship).
04-11-2012 09:14 AM
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Post: #39
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-11-2012 09:14 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 10:48 PM)RUfan03 Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:54 PM)GreenMississippi Wrote:  William and Mary will go to the Patriot.

William & Mary to the Patriot. Is that for football only or for all sports? They are a public school. Why would they go to the Patriot where the schools are private with smaller enrollments? I could see Richmond going to the Patriot Conference for football only since they have a similar enrollment as does the Patriot schools. The Patriot Conference just instituted scholarships but I don't think it is the full 65 allowed in FCS.05-nono
Army and Navy are also public (and technically all of their students are on scholarship).
William and Mary is something of a good fit for the Patriot despite being public. Very old school and founded private. Enrollment of 7,700 and an endowment of $625 million. The Patriot league enrollment ranges from 2,300 to 6,000 (and endowments up to $1 billion) which is in the ballpark for the league.
04-11-2012 10:17 AM
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Post: #40
RE: CAA exit fee
(04-11-2012 10:17 AM)GreenMississippi Wrote:  
(04-11-2012 09:14 AM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 10:48 PM)RUfan03 Wrote:  
(04-10-2012 12:54 PM)GreenMississippi Wrote:  William and Mary will go to the Patriot.

William & Mary to the Patriot. Is that for football only or for all sports? They are a public school. Why would they go to the Patriot where the schools are private with smaller enrollments? I could see Richmond going to the Patriot Conference for football only since they have a similar enrollment as does the Patriot schools. The Patriot Conference just instituted scholarships but I don't think it is the full 65 allowed in FCS.05-nono
Army and Navy are also public (and technically all of their students are on scholarship).
William and Mary is something of a good fit for the Patriot despite being public. Very old school and founded private. Enrollment of 7,700 and an endowment of $625 million. The Patriot league enrollment ranges from 2,300 to 6,000 (and endowments up to $1 billion) which is in the ballpark for the league.

They only get ~10% of their funding from the state. They may as well be private.
04-11-2012 12:15 PM
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