“When you look back in hindsight, it’s a complete joke,” Harnish said. “Really, when you look at Rivals and things like that, they don’t know. They have no idea who you are, they don’t know you personally, they’ve never seen you play – they just look at how many offers you’ve had.

“It really just does not make any sense whatsoever.” (HuskieWire)

http://www.huskiewire.com/articles/2012/.../index.xml

If anyone on this board thinks these recruiting services actually do any sort of evaluation of players, you are crazy. Just keep sending them your money.

(02-01-2012 07:36 AM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  “When you look back in hindsight, it’s a complete joke,” Harnish said. “Really, when you look at Rivals and things like that, they don’t know. They have no idea who you are, they don’t know you personally, they’ve never seen you play – they just look at how many offers you’ve had.

“It really just does not make any sense whatsoever.” (HuskieWire)

http://www.huskiewire.com/articles/2012/.../index.xml

If anyone on this board thinks these recruiting services actually do any sort of evaluation of players, you are crazy. Just keep sending them your money.

Agree, they dont mean much at all.

(02-01-2012 08:26 AM)BobL Wrote:  

(02-01-2012 07:36 AM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  “When you look back in hindsight, it’s a complete joke,” Harnish said. “Really, when you look at Rivals and things like that, they don’t know. They have no idea who you are, they don’t know you personally, they’ve never seen you play – they just look at how many offers you’ve had.

“It really just does not make any sense whatsoever.” (HuskieWire)

http://www.huskiewire.com/articles/2012/.../index.xml

If anyone on this board thinks these recruiting services actually do any sort of evaluation of players, you are crazy. Just keep sending them your money.

Agree, they dont mean much at all.

it only matters if your coaches think you will be a player

Buried in that story is a quote that might as well be NIU Football's mission statement:

Quote:“As time goes on, you decide, ‘Hey, forget what they say. We’re going to prove them wrong,’ ” Harnish said. “And that’s kind of what NIU is all about. We’re always trying to prove people wrong, and trying to do things that people don’t believe we can do.

(02-01-2012 07:36 AM)HUSKIEFOOTBALLFAN Wrote:  “When you look back in hindsight, it’s a complete joke,” Harnish said. “Really, when you look at Rivals and things like that, they don’t know. They have no idea who you are, they don’t know you personally, they’ve never seen you play – they just look at how many offers you’ve had.

“It really just does not make any sense whatsoever.” (HuskieWire)

http://www.huskiewire.com/articles/2012/.../index.xml

If anyone on this board thinks these recruiting services actually do any sort of evaluation of players, you are crazy. Just keep sending them your money.

Couldn't have said it any better.

I feel like on Scouts, all of our non-3 star recruits were 2 star recruits... tofay they all appear with an "NR" next to their name. Weird.

Lots of teams are reporting "the best class ever" I think the ratings have become more lax.

Someone figured out that peddling in Hope would make much better copy. There has to be a story, in order to report a story. :cynicism:

I agree and disagree. First, often times the coaches themselves do not know what kind of person a recruit really is either. I also disagree about his statement of giving kids their stars based on how many offers he has. That is completely false. It is all based on film. The problem is that a Harnish was probably never evaluated as they probably did not have film on him and were never asked to look at his rating because Northern Illinois does not have a Rivals.com site.

I personally got film from three of Toledo's unrated commits and sent it to the Rivals recruiting analyst for the recruits area and they in turn rated them three stars based on the film. One of these kids had three offers, all from MAC schools, but he did commit to Toledo in June so he was off the radar after that.

The character and dedication thing speaks more to the potential a recruit has to develop into a better player in college. But recruiting ratings and rankings are not about the potential that person has in college and never has been about that. The ratings and rankings are about how good of a football player that kid is right now. This is why people that say you need to rank the recruiting classes in 2-3 years are wrong. You can do that, but that is a ranking of a college class rank, not a recruiting ranking of how good they were before they got to college. Those are two different things.

The main misconception is that people think the recruiting services are trying to say that this school is going to win a conference title because this recruiting class is #1 in the conference this year. That is not what recruiting services are saying. The recruiting service is not in the business of predicting how well a player develops in college, whether his grades stay okay, whether he says out of trouble, whether the same coaches stay at a school, whether a school's coaches can teach and coach the game as well as they can recruit. The recruiting service also can't go out and get film on every player and evaluate them all without the help from A) a school having a team site that works this angle to help out and B) the prospects themselves contacting the Rivals recruiting analysts and sharing their film with the analysts. Harnish probably never shared his senior film with an analyst from Rivals. I also remember him being very average until a few years into his time at NIU. He was one of those average players that developed into a great player. But that's not was recruiting services are trying to do......they are ranking how good a player is today before he even steps foot on campus.

(02-02-2012 12:52 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  I agree and disagree. First, often times the coaches themselves do not know what kind of person a recruit really is either. I also disagree about his statement of giving kids their stars based on how many offers he has. That is completely false. It is all based on film. The problem is that a Harnish was probably never evaluated as they probably did not have film on him and were never asked to look at his rating because Northern Illinois does not have a Rivals.com site.

I personally got film from three of Toledo's unrated commits and sent it to the Rivals recruiting analyst for the recruits area and they in turn rated them three stars based on the film. One of these kids had three offers, all from MAC schools, but he did commit to Toledo in June so he was off the radar after that.

The character and dedication thing speaks more to the potential a recruit has to develop into a better player in college. But recruiting ratings and rankings are not about the potential that person has in college and never has been about that. The ratings and rankings are about how good of a football player that kid is right now. This is why people that say you need to rank the recruiting classes in 2-3 years are wrong. You can do that, but that is a ranking of a college class rank, not a recruiting ranking of how good they were before they got to college. Those are two different things.

The main misconception is that people think the recruiting services are trying to say that this school is going to win a conference title because this recruiting class is #1 in the conference this year. That is not what recruiting services are saying. The recruiting service is not in the business of predicting how well a player develops in college, whether his grades stay okay, whether he says out of trouble, whether the same coaches stay at a school, whether a school's coaches can teach and coach the game as well as they can recruit. The recruiting service also can't go out and get film on every player and evaluate them all without the help from A) a school having a team site that works this angle to help out and B) the prospects themselves contacting the Rivals recruiting analysts and sharing their film with the analysts. Harnish probably never shared his senior film with an analyst from Rivals. I also remember him being very average until a few years into his time at NIU. He was one of those average players that developed into a great player. But that's not was recruiting services are trying to do......they are ranking how good a player is today before he even steps foot on campus.

Well, if that's all true, then the rankings are at least as useless if not moreso than we all thought before. Speaking of which, it appears that NIU has the Russian judge doing their rankings.

(02-02-2012 04:37 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Well, if that's all true, then the rankings are at least as useless if not moreso than we all thought before. Speaking of which, it appears that NIU has the Russian judge doing their rankings.

That can be your opinion, but someone asked Nick Saban about this yesterday and he said that rankings do mean a lot. He said team rankings don't mean anything to him, but if he is bringing in a lot of highly rated recruits he has a better chance of coaching them into champions. So, Nick Saban disagrees with your opinion.

(02-02-2012 05:04 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(02-02-2012 04:37 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Well, if that's all true, then the rankings are at least as useless if not moreso than we all thought before. Speaking of which, it appears that NIU has the Russian judge doing their rankings.

That can be your opinion, but someone asked Nick Saban about this yesterday and he said that rankings do mean a lot. He said team rankings don't mean anything to him, but if he is bringing in a lot of highly rated recruits he has a better chance of coaching them into champions. So, Nick Saban disagrees with your opinion.

Nick Saban is recruiting top players who get a lot of looks from a lot of people. Not your average 2 or 3-star guy who most people never see.

(02-02-2012 05:15 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-02-2012 05:04 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(02-02-2012 04:37 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Well, if that's all true, then the rankings are at least as useless if not moreso than we all thought before. Speaking of which, it appears that NIU has the Russian judge doing their rankings.

That can be your opinion, but someone asked Nick Saban about this yesterday and he said that rankings do mean a lot. He said team rankings don't mean anything to him, but if he is bringing in a lot of highly rated recruits he has a better chance of coaching them into champions. So, Nick Saban disagrees with your opinion.

Nick Saban is recruiting top players who get a lot of looks from a lot of people. Not your average 2 or 3-star guy who most people never see.

So you're saying a 3 star prospect that has multiple BCS offers is someone that most people never see? What about the couple of four star recruits on Scout.com that MAC schools brought in? I know there are at least two.....a RB for Temple and a WR for Toledo.

(02-02-2012 05:04 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(02-02-2012 04:37 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Well, if that's all true, then the rankings are at least as useless if not moreso than we all thought before. Speaking of which, it appears that NIU has the Russian judge doing their rankings.

That can be your opinion, but someone asked Nick Saban about this yesterday and he said that rankings do mean a lot. He said team rankings don't mean anything to him, but if he is bringing in a lot of highly rated recruits he has a better chance of coaching them into champions. So, Nick Saban disagrees with your opinion.

And I disagree with you..and really is Nick Saban your idea of a an ideal coach and teacher of students?..I know that he wins but he is not loyal to anybody nor any institution . To me using the star system simply means that he does not want to waste time recruiting. Just show up at 5 star homes.

(02-02-2012 07:41 PM)66Huskie Wrote:  

(02-02-2012 05:04 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(02-02-2012 04:37 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Well, if that's all true, then the rankings are at least as useless if not moreso than we all thought before. Speaking of which, it appears that NIU has the Russian judge doing their rankings.

That can be your opinion, but someone asked Nick Saban about this yesterday and he said that rankings do mean a lot. He said team rankings don't mean anything to him, but if he is bringing in a lot of highly rated recruits he has a better chance of coaching them into champions. So, Nick Saban disagrees with your opinion.

And I disagree with you..and really is Nick Saban your idea of a an ideal coach and teacher of students?..I know that he wins but he is not loyal to anybody nor any institution . To me using the star system simply means that he does not want to waste time recruiting. Just show up at 5 star homes.

I don't think you are listening to what I said, or Saban said. Nowhere did I or he say that he just looks at who is ranked 5 stars and starts recruiting them. Not too many coaches recruit someone because of their star ranking......in fact, most coaches are already recruiting kids long before they are in the recruiting service databases.

(02-02-2012 12:52 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  I personally got film from three of Toledo's unrated commits and sent it to the Rivals recruiting analyst for the recruits area and they in turn rated them three stars based on the film. One of these kids had three offers, all from MAC schools, but he did commit to Toledo in June so he was off the radar after that.
...
The recruiting service is not in the business of predicting how well a player develops in college, ......they are ranking how good a player is today before he even steps foot on campus.

The ranking systems are in the business to make money - they create the "illusion" of value with "star" assignments of HS athletes (then sell subscriptions to fans and coaches to monetize upon this illusion).
BCS schools attract from the Rivals 250+, Non-BCS schools attract from the remaining pool. So in general non-BCS coaches would want players to be undervalued (having a lower star rating than their performance warrants) giving them an advantage of signing really good players who are ignored by the BSC schools due to their star ranking. If I was a fan of a MAC school I am not sure I would send a tape to Rivals to have a recruit evaluated as it would just invite poaching.

(02-02-2012 11:32 PM)NIUpride Wrote:  

(02-02-2012 12:52 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  I personally got film from three of Toledo's unrated commits and sent it to the Rivals recruiting analyst for the recruits area and they in turn rated them three stars based on the film. One of these kids had three offers, all from MAC schools, but he did commit to Toledo in June so he was off the radar after that.
...
The recruiting service is not in the business of predicting how well a player develops in college, ......they are ranking how good a player is today before he even steps foot on campus.

The ranking systems are in the business to make money - they create the "illusion" of value with "star" assignments of HS athletes (then sell subscriptions to fans and coaches to monetize upon this illusion).
BCS schools attract from the Rivals 250+, Non-BCS schools attract from the remaining pool. So in general non-BCS coaches would want players to be undervalued (having a lower star rating than their performance warrants) giving them an advantage of signing really good players who are ignored by the BSC schools due to their star ranking. If I was a fan of a MAC school I am not sure I would send a tape to Rivals to have a recruit evaluated as it would just invite poaching.

Yep, and when they rate someone a 5.5 vs. a 5.4? Now we're really talking guesswork.

(02-02-2012 06:32 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(02-02-2012 05:15 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-02-2012 05:04 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(02-02-2012 04:37 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  Well, if that's all true, then the rankings are at least as useless if not moreso than we all thought before. Speaking of which, it appears that NIU has the Russian judge doing their rankings.

That can be your opinion, but someone asked Nick Saban about this yesterday and he said that rankings do mean a lot. He said team rankings don't mean anything to him, but if he is bringing in a lot of highly rated recruits he has a better chance of coaching them into champions. So, Nick Saban disagrees with your opinion.

Nick Saban is recruiting top players who get a lot of looks from a lot of people. Not your average 2 or 3-star guy who most people never see.

So you're saying a 3 star prospect that has multiple BCS offers is someone that most people never see? What about the couple of four star recruits on Scout.com that MAC schools brought in? I know there are at least two.....a RB for Temple and a WR for Toledo.

When you say BCS are you talking Alabama, Ohio State, Oklahoma? Or are you talking Minnesota, Vanderbilt, Kansas? They get different kinds of players. If there are players good enough to be 4-star they might be good enough to stick out from the crowd. In the tails of the bell curve, so to speak. The 2 and 3 star type guys are all in the middle and very hard to judge who is better than whom.