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abuc90 Offline
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Stanton in the Press
01-08-2012 10:14 PM
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slappywhite Offline
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RE: Stanton in the Press
in the article he eludes to why the decision was made to drop football. it was a strategic business decision and he was put in place to make these big decisions. was there mis-information being feed to him regarding financials...maybe. was there a political side to this decision (as i believe mb has referred to)...possibly. makes no difference. he made the decision and i can live with that.

was it the right one? i dunno. it certainly took an important thing away from alot of poeple who miss it dearly. but that does not make it the wrong decision at the time.

i respect people who have the stones to make big decisions, right or wrong. there are many (probably most) who do not have it in them to make em', they just sit there with their mouth open. i promise you, it was not an easy decision for stanton. and it will not be forgotten as part of his legacy.

the biggest thing i took from the article was the sentence about bringing it back. it gives the football supporters something to shoot for and he would not have said it if he thought it was not a strong possibility. it can be done, but its gonna take alot of people being on the same page.
(This post was last modified: 01-08-2012 11:43 PM by slappywhite.)
01-08-2012 10:55 PM
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BuccTiger Offline
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RE: Stanton in the Press
I still feel that Stanton made the right decision (to end football) for the wrong reasons.

He has had a positive impact because of the improvement in campus facilities if nothing else. The dorms look great, the library is really nice. All of the new athletic facilities look great. The nursing building renovation seems to be pretty nice. The grounds look great, nice signs, trees, tower. The grounds used to look like crap.

Some of this would never have happened if we kept propping up football.

I still can't stand Stanton, and it has nothing to do with football.
01-09-2012 03:32 AM
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slappywhite Offline
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RE: Stanton in the Press
(01-09-2012 03:32 AM)BuccTiger Wrote:  I still feel that Stanton made the right decision (to end football) for the wrong reasons.

He has had a positive impact because of the improvement in campus facilities if nothing else. The dorms look great, the library is really nice. All of the new athletic facilities look great. The nursing building renovation seems to be pretty nice. The grounds look great, nice signs, trees, tower. The grounds used to look like crap.

Some of this would never have happened if we kept propping up football.

I still can't stand Stanton, and it has nothing to do with football.

it is true (no matter what the poo-poo everything folks say) that there was progress made after dropping football. none of the new athletics facilities would have been built with football still going on. and if you want to move up to a better conference (as all the football supporters do) you have to have facilities. think about it. before football was cut, the only sports we played on campus were bball and volleyball. there is alot of talk about improving "game experience" and getting more students to the games. having venues on campus certainly helps. yes, yes...i know, minor sports. yes, yes... i know we need a bball arena. that will happen too as funds become available, including a venue for football eventually.

stanton has done alot to oversee growth and the enhancing of etsu, whether folks want to believe that or not.
01-09-2012 08:55 AM
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bucfan81 Offline
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RE: Stanton in the Press
With the results of stanton's actions beautiful Fall Saturday's at ETSU are now filled with frisbee tossing and picking daisies. Some may brag about ETSU being the only school in Tennesse that does not offer opportunities for students to continue their education in the marching band but other schools are now looking at us as the laughing stock of the state. That is why all the other schools looked at ETSU and then strengthened their football programs. Now Dr. Noland is going to have to play catch up but these problems can be corrected by appointing the right people. One thing we learned from all this is a division one university should never, ever, ever promote the tennis coach to athletic director.
01-09-2012 09:23 AM
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slappywhite Offline
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RE: Stanton in the Press
lets hope 81 is not a participant in the discussions that are needed to reinstate football to etsu. if so, it does not stand a chance.
01-09-2012 09:36 AM
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Buccaneerlover Offline
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RE: Stanton in the Press
The unwritten thing is Dr. Stanton mortgaged the university to get these things done. The new dorms aren't paid for, they're being paid for by the students. All he did was get a token approval for bonds and debt service.
Dr. Stanton did accomplish some nice things, but even he knows that his legacy will ALWAYS be tied to dropping football.
I compare him alot to former POTUS George W. Bush. I don't believe neither are bad guys. I believe that both are incredibly intelligent overrall. Both of their problems resulted from not being surrounded by the right people, really great people to give him the information he needed to be so incredibly effective that the university would truly grow.
They gave the stat that more are living on campus, and that's great. 9 percent increase. Again it's not something he directly accomplished. How much has to do with the lottery scholarship and the lack of safe, affordable rental property around the campus? There's really not that much when you think about it. Not when you consider ETSU has almost 15,000 students. Compare it to Radford, there are apartment complexes completely around that campus, ETSU has Criminole Ridge or whatever it's called.
I guess ultimately, Dr. Stanton's body of work was good, but not great. He'll always be remembered for the football decision, and creating the disconnect between alumni and the university.
I hope it can be repaired with Dr. Noland.
01-09-2012 11:02 AM
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slappywhite Offline
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RE: Stanton in the Press
(01-09-2012 11:02 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  The unwritten thing is Dr. Stanton mortgaged the university to get these things done. The new dorms aren't paid for, they're being paid for by the students. All he did was get a token approval for bonds and debt service.
Dr. Stanton did accomplish some nice things, but even he knows that his legacy will ALWAYS be tied to dropping football.
I compare him alot to former POTUS George W. Bush. I don't believe neither are bad guys. I believe that both are incredibly intelligent overrall. Both of their problems resulted from not being surrounded by the right people, really great people to give him the information he needed to be so incredibly effective that the university would truly grow.
They gave the stat that more are living on campus, and that's great. 9 percent increase. Again it's not something he directly accomplished. How much has to do with the lottery scholarship and the lack of safe, affordable rental property around the campus? There's really not that much when you think about it. Not when you consider ETSU has almost 15,000 students. Compare it to Radford, there are apartment complexes completely around that campus, ETSU has Criminole Ridge or whatever it's called.
I guess ultimately, Dr. Stanton's body of work was good, but not great. He'll always be remembered for the football decision, and creating the disconnect between alumni and the university.
I hope it can be repaired with Dr. Noland.

was the university supposed to pay cash? dave ramsay may say so, but to the point, the university is in fine financial shape. i dont see the relavancy.

the university has grown. just not in the area of football. there is plenty of affordable housing around off-campus. they just built a huge complex accross the street. it still increased by 9%. thats better than a 9% decrease. yes... radford...everyone seems to be doing better than etsu, at least to some.

And as for the disconnect between the alumni and university...maybe so with a certain section of alumni, but not neccessarily the section that gives back to etsu.

http://www.etsu.edu/calendar/EventList.a...n_id=18886
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2012 11:53 AM by slappywhite.)
01-09-2012 11:36 AM
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bucfan81 Offline
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RE: Stanton in the Press
Board of Regent schools Austin Peay and Tenn Tech perfectly well afford football and marching bands while being in the same state and same system and funded under the same formulas. But we are told that ETSU is "different". The problem is ETSU is a state school also and is not different. I know well that Dr. Stanton did some good things but the overwhelming legacy is that he made our university the only one in the state that "could not afford football". Beyond embarrassing.
01-09-2012 12:12 PM
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RE: Stanton in the Press
(01-08-2012 10:14 PM)abuc90 Wrote:  http://johnsoncitypress.com/Living/article.php?id=97326

Dear Dr. Stanton,
Since you have reintroduced your reason for eliminating football in 2003 in the recent Johnson City Press interview, I respectfully request that you issue additional financial information regarding your strategic business decision then and how that has played out these past eight years. You state that $500,000.00 was coming from both academics and the Pirate Club to cover football expenses in 2003, thus the program was losing $1 million annually. The JC Press reported at the time that the annual athletic budget for ETSU in 2003-04 was some $6.7 million. The USA Today college athletics finance database shows that ETSU's athletic budget was around $7.2 million in 2004-05. So, instead of decreasing athletic spending by the $1 million football was losing, you actually increased athletic spending by $500,000.00 this next year after football. And, according to USA Today, this increase in total athletic spending has been on a steady upward trajectory ever since, reaching some $11 million annually today. The 2009-10 data for ETSU, the most recent available, shows that over $4.1 million of the athletic budget came from direct state or other government support. Another $1.5 million came from indirect facilities and administrative support. It would be very helpful if you would explain these budget categories and how they are monies that are not available to academics. In addition, these funds coupled with student athletic fees made up over 77% of ETSU"s athletic budget in 2004-05. And, with reference to your assessment regarding football that it just wasn't working, it would also be helpful if you would distinguish the difference between losing and subsidizing when speaking of intercollegiate athletic budgets and spending.

Of course, if this USA Today data is inaccurate, you could point out their inaccuracies, thus eliminating a significant distraction to your explanation of your decision to eliminate football in 2003.

Sincerely,
ETSU Alumnae
01-09-2012 12:34 PM
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slappywhite Offline
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RE: Stanton in the Press
(01-09-2012 12:34 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(01-08-2012 10:14 PM)abuc90 Wrote:  http://johnsoncitypress.com/Living/article.php?id=97326

Dear Dr. Stanton,
Since you have reintroduced your reason for eliminating football in 2003 in the recent Johnson City Press interview, I respectfully request that you issue additional financial information regarding your strategic business decision then and how that has played out these past eight years. You state that $500,000.00 was coming from both academics and the Pirate Club to cover football expenses in 2003, thus the program was losing $1 million annually. The JC Press reported at the time that the annual athletic budget for ETSU in 2003-04 was some $6.7 million. The USA Today college athletics finance database shows that ETSU's athletic budget was around $7.2 million in 2004-05. So, instead of decreasing athletic spending by the $1 million football was losing, you actually increased athletic spending by $500,000.00 this next year after football. And, according to USA Today, this increase in total athletic spending has been on a steady upward trajectory ever since, reaching some $11 million annually today. The 2009-10 data for ETSU, the most recent available, shows that over $4.1 million of the athletic budget came from direct state or other government support. Another $1.5 million came from indirect facilities and administrative support. It would be very helpful if you would explain these budget categories and how they are monies that are not available to academics. In addition, these funds coupled with student athletic fees made up over 77% of ETSU"s athletic budget in 2004-05. And, with reference to your assessment regarding football that it just wasn't working, it would also be helpful if you would distinguish the difference between losing and subsidizing when speaking of intercollegiate athletic budgets and spending.

Of course, if this USA Today data is inaccurate, you could point out their inaccuracies, thus eliminating a significant distraction to your explanation of your decision to eliminate football in 2003.

Sincerely,
ETSU Alumnae

great letter with lots of numbers...even if it is irrelevant to the current situation and will have absolutely no bearing on reinstating football to etsu.
01-09-2012 01:10 PM
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Buccaneerlover Offline
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RE: Stanton in the Press
(01-09-2012 11:36 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 11:02 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  The unwritten thing is Dr. Stanton mortgaged the university to get these things done. The new dorms aren't paid for, they're being paid for by the students. All he did was get a token approval for bonds and debt service.
Dr. Stanton did accomplish some nice things, but even he knows that his legacy will ALWAYS be tied to dropping football.
I compare him alot to former POTUS George W. Bush. I don't believe neither are bad guys. I believe that both are incredibly intelligent overrall. Both of their problems resulted from not being surrounded by the right people, really great people to give him the information he needed to be so incredibly effective that the university would truly grow.
They gave the stat that more are living on campus, and that's great. 9 percent increase. Again it's not something he directly accomplished. How much has to do with the lottery scholarship and the lack of safe, affordable rental property around the campus? There's really not that much when you think about it. Not when you consider ETSU has almost 15,000 students. Compare it to Radford, there are apartment complexes completely around that campus, ETSU has Criminole Ridge or whatever it's called.
I guess ultimately, Dr. Stanton's body of work was good, but not great. He'll always be remembered for the football decision, and creating the disconnect between alumni and the university.
I hope it can be repaired with Dr. Noland.

was the university supposed to pay cash? dave ramsay may say so, but to the point, the university is in fine financial shape. i dont see the relavancy.

the university has grown. just not in the area of football. there is plenty of affordable housing around off-campus. they just built a huge complex accross the street. it still increased by 9%. thats better than a 9% decrease. yes... radford...everyone seems to be doing better than etsu, at least to some.

And as for the disconnect between the alumni and university...maybe so with a certain section of alumni, but not neccessarily the section that gives back to etsu.

http://www.etsu.edu/calendar/EventList.a...n_id=18886

The part that gives to ETSU is so small compared to the amount of alumni spread around it's insane. We've had this discussion before, where are the alumni chapters? Knoxville? Nashville? Memphis? Atlanta? Raleigh? Charlotte? There are alot more alumni NOT donating back to ETSU than currently do. That's a problem.
And yes, the living situation for off campus housing at Radford blows Johnson City out of the water, as it does even in tiny Duluth, Minnesota. (UM-D and ETSU have similar enrollment figures, comparable campuses.)
And yes, most schools have the ability to raise the funds privately and get things done, ETSU has continued to use bonds/debt service like a crutch to build things. And while I understand most schools do it, it would be nice one time to hear that ETSU built something that they weren't financing or getting from stimulus money.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter what we think, it's what the perception of the university is, and the biggest way you can tell how alumni truly feel is whether or not they give back.
01-09-2012 02:09 PM
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slappywhite Offline
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Post: #13
RE: Stanton in the Press
(01-09-2012 02:09 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 11:36 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 11:02 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  The unwritten thing is Dr. Stanton mortgaged the university to get these things done. The new dorms aren't paid for, they're being paid for by the students. All he did was get a token approval for bonds and debt service.
Dr. Stanton did accomplish some nice things, but even he knows that his legacy will ALWAYS be tied to dropping football.
I compare him alot to former POTUS George W. Bush. I don't believe neither are bad guys. I believe that both are incredibly intelligent overrall. Both of their problems resulted from not being surrounded by the right people, really great people to give him the information he needed to be so incredibly effective that the university would truly grow.
They gave the stat that more are living on campus, and that's great. 9 percent increase. Again it's not something he directly accomplished. How much has to do with the lottery scholarship and the lack of safe, affordable rental property around the campus? There's really not that much when you think about it. Not when you consider ETSU has almost 15,000 students. Compare it to Radford, there are apartment complexes completely around that campus, ETSU has Criminole Ridge or whatever it's called.
I guess ultimately, Dr. Stanton's body of work was good, but not great. He'll always be remembered for the football decision, and creating the disconnect between alumni and the university.
I hope it can be repaired with Dr. Noland.

was the university supposed to pay cash? dave ramsay may say so, but to the point, the university is in fine financial shape. i dont see the relavancy.

the university has grown. just not in the area of football. there is plenty of affordable housing around off-campus. they just built a huge complex accross the street. it still increased by 9%. thats better than a 9% decrease. yes... radford...everyone seems to be doing better than etsu, at least to some.

And as for the disconnect between the alumni and university...maybe so with a certain section of alumni, but not neccessarily the section that gives back to etsu.

http://www.etsu.edu/calendar/EventList.a...n_id=18886

The part that gives to ETSU is so small compared to the amount of alumni spread around it's insane. We've had this discussion before, where are the alumni chapters? Knoxville? Nashville? Memphis? Atlanta? Raleigh? Charlotte? There are alot more alumni NOT donating back to ETSU than currently do. That's a problem.
And yes, the living situation for off campus housing at Radford blows Johnson City out of the water, as it does even in tiny Duluth, Minnesota. (UM-D and ETSU have similar enrollment figures, comparable campuses.)
And yes, most schools have the ability to raise the funds privately and get things done, ETSU has continued to use bonds/debt service like a crutch to build things. And while I understand most schools do it, it would be nice one time to hear that ETSU built something that they weren't financing or getting from stimulus money.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter what we think, it's what the perception of the university is, and the biggest way you can tell how alumni truly feel is whether or not they give back.

i would rather have a small group that donated alot vs. a large group that did not. but, it is true that etsu needs everyone to give back.

UM-Duluth....how could i have missed how posh their off-campus housing is??? Those northern minnasotans know how to live i guess...

name one...how about the warren-green golf center. i believe it was done through private donations.

maybe its the perception of the alumni that you have been in touch with. what is the perception of the other 98% that you have not talked to? you are painting with a broad brush when making statements like that imo.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2012 02:53 PM by slappywhite.)
01-09-2012 02:49 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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RE: Stanton in the Press
(01-09-2012 01:10 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 12:34 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(01-08-2012 10:14 PM)abuc90 Wrote:  http://johnsoncitypress.com/Living/article.php?id=97326

Dear Dr. Stanton,
Since you have reintroduced your reason for eliminating football in 2003 in the recent Johnson City Press interview, I respectfully request that you issue additional financial information regarding your strategic business decision then and how that has played out these past eight years. You state that $500,000.00 was coming from both academics and the Pirate Club to cover football expenses in 2003, thus the program was losing $1 million annually. The JC Press reported at the time that the annual athletic budget for ETSU in 2003-04 was some $6.7 million. The USA Today college athletics finance database shows that ETSU's athletic budget was around $7.2 million in 2004-05. So, instead of decreasing athletic spending by the $1 million football was losing, you actually increased athletic spending by $500,000.00 this next year after football. And, according to USA Today, this increase in total athletic spending has been on a steady upward trajectory ever since, reaching some $11 million annually today. The 2009-10 data for ETSU, the most recent available, shows that over $4.1 million of the athletic budget came from direct state or other government support. Another $1.5 million came from indirect facilities and administrative support. It would be very helpful if you would explain these budget categories and how they are monies that are not available to academics. In addition, these funds coupled with student athletic fees made up over 77% of ETSU"s athletic budget in 2004-05. And, with reference to your assessment regarding football that it just wasn't working, it would also be helpful if you would distinguish the difference between losing and subsidizing when speaking of intercollegiate athletic budgets and spending.

Of course, if this USA Today data is inaccurate, you could point out their inaccuracies, thus eliminating a significant distraction to your explanation of your decision to eliminate football in 2003.

Sincerely,
ETSU Alumnae

great letter with lots of numbers...even if it is irrelevant to the current situation and will have absolutely no bearing on reinstating football to etsu.

Irrelevant to the current situation? And what exactly is that current situation, Slappy? They're spending $11 million today without football - which is a 64% increase since football was dropped? Irrelevant? There's nothing more relevant than a look at ETSU athletic spending since the end of football and where that spending is TODAY. It's the exact starting point to any effort to reinstate football in order to determine the fund raising needed to supplement the already existing athletic revenue. Real simple accounting and basic 101 budget planning. But again, perhaps Stanton, you, or Mullins can refute these USA Today numbers to show their irrelevance to the reinstatement of ETSU football. Prove that money is now not being lifted from the general university budget, money that could be going to academics, to supplement athletics since we no longer have football. If you will, then you'll have your wish with me - I'll forever shut up about the return of ETSU football and declare Dr. Stanton a hero.
01-09-2012 04:25 PM
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Buccaneerlover Offline
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RE: Stanton in the Press
(01-09-2012 02:49 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 02:09 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 11:36 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 11:02 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  The unwritten thing is Dr. Stanton mortgaged the university to get these things done. The new dorms aren't paid for, they're being paid for by the students. All he did was get a token approval for bonds and debt service.
Dr. Stanton did accomplish some nice things, but even he knows that his legacy will ALWAYS be tied to dropping football.
I compare him alot to former POTUS George W. Bush. I don't believe neither are bad guys. I believe that both are incredibly intelligent overrall. Both of their problems resulted from not being surrounded by the right people, really great people to give him the information he needed to be so incredibly effective that the university would truly grow.
They gave the stat that more are living on campus, and that's great. 9 percent increase. Again it's not something he directly accomplished. How much has to do with the lottery scholarship and the lack of safe, affordable rental property around the campus? There's really not that much when you think about it. Not when you consider ETSU has almost 15,000 students. Compare it to Radford, there are apartment complexes completely around that campus, ETSU has Criminole Ridge or whatever it's called.
I guess ultimately, Dr. Stanton's body of work was good, but not great. He'll always be remembered for the football decision, and creating the disconnect between alumni and the university.
I hope it can be repaired with Dr. Noland.

was the university supposed to pay cash? dave ramsay may say so, but to the point, the university is in fine financial shape. i dont see the relavancy.

the university has grown. just not in the area of football. there is plenty of affordable housing around off-campus. they just built a huge complex accross the street. it still increased by 9%. thats better than a 9% decrease. yes... radford...everyone seems to be doing better than etsu, at least to some.

And as for the disconnect between the alumni and university...maybe so with a certain section of alumni, but not neccessarily the section that gives back to etsu.

http://www.etsu.edu/calendar/EventList.a...n_id=18886

The part that gives to ETSU is so small compared to the amount of alumni spread around it's insane. We've had this discussion before, where are the alumni chapters? Knoxville? Nashville? Memphis? Atlanta? Raleigh? Charlotte? There are alot more alumni NOT donating back to ETSU than currently do. That's a problem.
And yes, the living situation for off campus housing at Radford blows Johnson City out of the water, as it does even in tiny Duluth, Minnesota. (UM-D and ETSU have similar enrollment figures, comparable campuses.)
And yes, most schools have the ability to raise the funds privately and get things done, ETSU has continued to use bonds/debt service like a crutch to build things. And while I understand most schools do it, it would be nice one time to hear that ETSU built something that they weren't financing or getting from stimulus money.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter what we think, it's what the perception of the university is, and the biggest way you can tell how alumni truly feel is whether or not they give back.

i would rather have a small group that donated alot vs. a large group that did not. but, it is true that etsu needs everyone to give back.

UM-Duluth....how could i have missed how posh their off-campus housing is??? Those northern minnasotans know how to live i guess...

name one...how about the warren-green golf center. i believe it was done through private donations.

maybe its the perception of the alumni that you have been in touch with. what is the perception of the other 98% that you have not talked to? you are painting with a broad brush when making statements like that imo.

For openers, Duluth is hardly northern Minnesota. Lake of the Woods, that's northern Minnesota. And yes, they have one of the better on and off campus housing situations I've ever seen on a college campus and oh by the way, they play football and just built an arena for their hockey team that would make ETSU fans drool over for basketball. Beautiful facility.
Yes, the Warren-Greene golf center was done through private giving. Bill Greene built it along with Coach Warren. That had NOTHING to do with Paul Stanton or Dave Mullins. Men's golf is almost completely privately funded and is the only sport on campus that is. That approach of a small group giving alot? Nobody is giving alot. Most of the donations are under 500 dollars a year, so it's more like very few are giving very little. That is a BIG problem and shows a disconnect. It's very much like when fans are upset with the direction of a program the only way they can show their disgust is to not go to games and not buy tickets. ETSU alumni aren't donating, and haven't been for a long time. That greatly needs repair.
Also, you keep harping on this enrollment thing. How many are first time freshman applicants? That hasn't really gone up. What has gone up is part time enrollment, non traditional students and transfers. It all surrounds around the economy tanking and the HOPE scholarship. Now the HOPE is getting its' belt tightened, and eventually the economy will recover. Then what? I always ETSU, much like Kennesaw State have benefitted directly from lottery money. When that happened, UTK and Uga had to cap enrollment and increase their admission standards above the HOPE numbers to accomodate, those students have filtered to other colleges.
Lastly, dropping football had nothing to do with the bond retirement of the dome. That money was coming regardless and ETSU was going to have the ability to do what they did with new bonds whether or not football was here or not. A trained chimpanzee could've been president and oversaw getting those dorms built. It is what it is.
01-09-2012 04:41 PM
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bucfan81 Offline
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Post: #16
RE: Stanton in the Press
(01-09-2012 04:25 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 01:10 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 12:34 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(01-08-2012 10:14 PM)abuc90 Wrote:  http://johnsoncitypress.com/Living/article.php?id=97326

Dear Dr. Stanton,
Since you have reintroduced your reason for eliminating football in 2003 in the recent Johnson City Press interview, I respectfully request that you issue additional financial information regarding your strategic business decision then and how that has played out these past eight years. You state that $500,000.00 was coming from both academics and the Pirate Club to cover football expenses in 2003, thus the program was losing $1 million annually. The JC Press reported at the time that the annual athletic budget for ETSU in 2003-04 was some $6.7 million. The USA Today college athletics finance database shows that ETSU's athletic budget was around $7.2 million in 2004-05. So, instead of decreasing athletic spending by the $1 million football was losing, you actually increased athletic spending by $500,000.00 this next year after football. And, according to USA Today, this increase in total athletic spending has been on a steady upward trajectory ever since, reaching some $11 million annually today. The 2009-10 data for ETSU, the most recent available, shows that over $4.1 million of the athletic budget came from direct state or other government support. Another $1.5 million came from indirect facilities and administrative support. It would be very helpful if you would explain these budget categories and how they are monies that are not available to academics. In addition, these funds coupled with student athletic fees made up over 77% of ETSU"s athletic budget in 2004-05. And, with reference to your assessment regarding football that it just wasn't working, it would also be helpful if you would distinguish the difference between losing and subsidizing when speaking of intercollegiate athletic budgets and spending.

Of course, if this USA Today data is inaccurate, you could point out their inaccuracies, thus eliminating a significant distraction to your explanation of your decision to eliminate football in 2003.

Sincerely,
ETSU Alumnae

great letter with lots of numbers...even if it is irrelevant to the current situation and will have absolutely no bearing on reinstating football to etsu.

Irrelevant to the current situation? And what exactly is that current situation, Slappy? They're spending $11 million today without football - which is a 64% increase since football was dropped? Irrelevant? There's nothing more relevant than a look at ETSU athletic spending since the end of football and where that spending is TODAY. It's the exact starting point to any effort to reinstate football in order to determine the fund raising needed to supplement the already existing athletic revenue. Real simple accounting and basic 101 budget planning. But again, perhaps Stanton, you, or Mullins can refute these USA Today numbers to show their irrelevance to the reinstatement of ETSU football. Prove that money is now not being lifted from the general university budget, money that could be going to academics, to supplement athletics since we no longer have football. If you will, then you'll have your wish with me - I'll forever shut up about the return of ETSU football and declare Dr. Stanton a hero.

To this day I have not had it explained to me how a "financially strapped" school like ETSU obtained money to start an NCAA Division One soccer program from scratch? Something we did not ask for. Something we did not want but the leaders found plenty of money somewhere to start the program. I wonder where that money came from? We will never get an answer to that.
01-09-2012 08:54 PM
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BuccTiger Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Stanton in the Press
(01-09-2012 08:54 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 04:25 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 01:10 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 12:34 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(01-08-2012 10:14 PM)abuc90 Wrote:  http://johnsoncitypress.com/Living/article.php?id=97326

Dear Dr. Stanton,
Since you have reintroduced your reason for eliminating football in 2003 in the recent Johnson City Press interview, I respectfully request that you issue additional financial information regarding your strategic business decision then and how that has played out these past eight years. You state that $500,000.00 was coming from both academics and the Pirate Club to cover football expenses in 2003, thus the program was losing $1 million annually. The JC Press reported at the time that the annual athletic budget for ETSU in 2003-04 was some $6.7 million. The USA Today college athletics finance database shows that ETSU's athletic budget was around $7.2 million in 2004-05. So, instead of decreasing athletic spending by the $1 million football was losing, you actually increased athletic spending by $500,000.00 this next year after football. And, according to USA Today, this increase in total athletic spending has been on a steady upward trajectory ever since, reaching some $11 million annually today. The 2009-10 data for ETSU, the most recent available, shows that over $4.1 million of the athletic budget came from direct state or other government support. Another $1.5 million came from indirect facilities and administrative support. It would be very helpful if you would explain these budget categories and how they are monies that are not available to academics. In addition, these funds coupled with student athletic fees made up over 77% of ETSU"s athletic budget in 2004-05. And, with reference to your assessment regarding football that it just wasn't working, it would also be helpful if you would distinguish the difference between losing and subsidizing when speaking of intercollegiate athletic budgets and spending.

Of course, if this USA Today data is inaccurate, you could point out their inaccuracies, thus eliminating a significant distraction to your explanation of your decision to eliminate football in 2003.

Sincerely,
ETSU Alumnae

great letter with lots of numbers...even if it is irrelevant to the current situation and will have absolutely no bearing on reinstating football to etsu.

Irrelevant to the current situation? And what exactly is that current situation, Slappy? They're spending $11 million today without football - which is a 64% increase since football was dropped? Irrelevant? There's nothing more relevant than a look at ETSU athletic spending since the end of football and where that spending is TODAY. It's the exact starting point to any effort to reinstate football in order to determine the fund raising needed to supplement the already existing athletic revenue. Real simple accounting and basic 101 budget planning. But again, perhaps Stanton, you, or Mullins can refute these USA Today numbers to show their irrelevance to the reinstatement of ETSU football. Prove that money is now not being lifted from the general university budget, money that could be going to academics, to supplement athletics since we no longer have football. If you will, then you'll have your wish with me - I'll forever shut up about the return of ETSU football and declare Dr. Stanton a hero.

To this day I have not had it explained to me how a "financially strapped" school like ETSU obtained money to start an NCAA Division One soccer program from scratch? Something we did not ask for. Something we did not want but the leaders found plenty of money somewhere to start the program. I wonder where that money came from? We will never get an answer to that.

Don't know anything about soccer, so this is a guess.

* One of those big vans to transport the team.
* T-shirt, shorts, cleats for each player, do they even need jocks?
* Grass field

Comparing the costs of football to soccer, is crazy. One of the reasons it is the worlds most poplar sport is it doesn't cost much to play.
01-09-2012 10:34 PM
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BuccTiger Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Stanton in the Press
(01-09-2012 09:23 AM)bucfan81 Wrote:  With the results of stanton's actions beautiful Fall Saturday's at ETSU are now filled with frisbee tossing and picking daisies. Some may brag about ETSU being the only school in Tennesse that does not offer opportunities for students to continue their education in the marching band but other schools are now looking at us as the laughing stock of the state. That is why all the other schools looked at ETSU and then strengthened their football programs. Now Dr. Noland is going to have to play catch up but these problems can be corrected by appointing the right people. One thing we learned from all this is a division one university should never, ever, ever promote the tennis coach to athletic director.

You don't need a football team to have a marching band.

UT Arlington has one of the top college marching bands in the nation and they don't have football.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm4zc6BLlAk

Quote:UT Arlington Marching Band: Known as "The Ambassadors of the University," the UT Arlington Marching Band is one of the few college marching bands in the nation to exist without a football team. For almost 25 years, the UT Arlington Marching Band has pioneered a new path in musical and visual excellence, striving to provide audiences with state-of-the-art presentations. The band performs annually for crowds numbering 100,000 and is featured in exhibition performances at state and local contests, such as Bands of America and Regional UIL, as well as festivals and high school and professional football games. In 2001, the band performed in exhibition at the Bands of America Grand Nationals Championship, held in Indianapolis, Indiana. The 175 student musicians in the band represent almost all academic disciplines and majors within the University.
Link

Quote:UT Arlington fielded a football program, playing out of Maverick Stadium, until 1985 when it disbanded football after the season. The school administration blamed its decision on major losses, nearly $1 million a year, as well as low average attendance (5,600, the student body at the time was 23,100). By the end, the program was funded by the university's auxiliary enterprise income while the other 14 sports were under-funded, as football accounted for half the total athletic budget.[61] In April 2004, UT Arlington students voted by a 2-to-1 margin to increase their student athletic fees by $2 per semester-credit hour should the university reinstate football and begin women's golf and women's soccer teams; however, after review, President James D. Spaniolo dismissed the idea as too costly in terms of time and resources.
Link
01-09-2012 10:45 PM
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slappywhite Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Stanton in the Press
(01-09-2012 04:41 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 02:49 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 02:09 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 11:36 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(01-09-2012 11:02 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  The unwritten thing is Dr. Stanton mortgaged the university to get these things done. The new dorms aren't paid for, they're being paid for by the students. All he did was get a token approval for bonds and debt service.
Dr. Stanton did accomplish some nice things, but even he knows that his legacy will ALWAYS be tied to dropping football.
I compare him alot to former POTUS George W. Bush. I don't believe neither are bad guys. I believe that both are incredibly intelligent overrall. Both of their problems resulted from not being surrounded by the right people, really great people to give him the information he needed to be so incredibly effective that the university would truly grow.
They gave the stat that more are living on campus, and that's great. 9 percent increase. Again it's not something he directly accomplished. How much has to do with the lottery scholarship and the lack of safe, affordable rental property around the campus? There's really not that much when you think about it. Not when you consider ETSU has almost 15,000 students. Compare it to Radford, there are apartment complexes completely around that campus, ETSU has Criminole Ridge or whatever it's called.
I guess ultimately, Dr. Stanton's body of work was good, but not great. He'll always be remembered for the football decision, and creating the disconnect between alumni and the university.
I hope it can be repaired with Dr. Noland.

was the university supposed to pay cash? dave ramsay may say so, but to the point, the university is in fine financial shape. i dont see the relavancy.

the university has grown. just not in the area of football. there is plenty of affordable housing around off-campus. they just built a huge complex accross the street. it still increased by 9%. thats better than a 9% decrease. yes... radford...everyone seems to be doing better than etsu, at least to some.

And as for the disconnect between the alumni and university...maybe so with a certain section of alumni, but not neccessarily the section that gives back to etsu.

http://www.etsu.edu/calendar/EventList.a...n_id=18886

The part that gives to ETSU is so small compared to the amount of alumni spread around it's insane. We've had this discussion before, where are the alumni chapters? Knoxville? Nashville? Memphis? Atlanta? Raleigh? Charlotte? There are alot more alumni NOT donating back to ETSU than currently do. That's a problem.
And yes, the living situation for off campus housing at Radford blows Johnson City out of the water, as it does even in tiny Duluth, Minnesota. (UM-D and ETSU have similar enrollment figures, comparable campuses.)
And yes, most schools have the ability to raise the funds privately and get things done, ETSU has continued to use bonds/debt service like a crutch to build things. And while I understand most schools do it, it would be nice one time to hear that ETSU built something that they weren't financing or getting from stimulus money.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter what we think, it's what the perception of the university is, and the biggest way you can tell how alumni truly feel is whether or not they give back.

i would rather have a small group that donated alot vs. a large group that did not. but, it is true that etsu needs everyone to give back.

UM-Duluth....how could i have missed how posh their off-campus housing is??? Those northern minnasotans know how to live i guess...

name one...how about the warren-green golf center. i believe it was done through private donations.

maybe its the perception of the alumni that you have been in touch with. what is the perception of the other 98% that you have not talked to? you are painting with a broad brush when making statements like that imo.

For openers, Duluth is hardly northern Minnesota. Lake of the Woods, that's northern Minnesota. And yes, they have one of the better on and off campus housing situations I've ever seen on a college campus and oh by the way, they play football and just built an arena for their hockey team that would make ETSU fans drool over for basketball. Beautiful facility.
Yes, the Warren-Greene golf center was done through private giving. Bill Greene built it along with Coach Warren. That had NOTHING to do with Paul Stanton or Dave Mullins. Men's golf is almost completely privately funded and is the only sport on campus that is. That approach of a small group giving alot? Nobody is giving alot. Most of the donations are under 500 dollars a year, so it's more like very few are giving very little. That is a BIG problem and shows a disconnect. It's very much like when fans are upset with the direction of a program the only way they can show their disgust is to not go to games and not buy tickets. ETSU alumni aren't donating, and haven't been for a long time. That greatly needs repair.
Also, you keep harping on this enrollment thing. How many are first time freshman applicants? That hasn't really gone up. What has gone up is part time enrollment, non traditional students and transfers. It all surrounds around the economy tanking and the HOPE scholarship. Now the HOPE is getting its' belt tightened, and eventually the economy will recover. Then what? I always ETSU, much like Kennesaw State have benefitted directly from lottery money. When that happened, UTK and Uga had to cap enrollment and increase their admission standards above the HOPE numbers to accomodate, those students have filtered to other colleges.
Lastly, dropping football had nothing to do with the bond retirement of the dome. That money was coming regardless and ETSU was going to have the ability to do what they did with new bonds whether or not football was here or not. A trained chimpanzee could've been president and oversaw getting those dorms built. It is what it is.

lover, i appreciate your keen knowledge of the upper midwest and the land of 10000 lakes, but the place you are talking about lies geographically about 1000 miles above the line of "i dont give a s%#t", so i (nor anybody else) really cares what UM-Duluth has or does.

you said... "it would be nice one time to hear that ETSU built something that they weren't financing or getting from stimulus money". i gave you one and you proceed to tell me how i am wrong. is that what makes me "a troll" in the footballers eyes? Check your stats on the funding of golf. Your assertion there is incorrect.

I just gave you a link that states giving was the highest since 2002. Thats still "not alot" in your world, because you dont want it to be.

i didnt say anything about enrollement. So, non-traditional students are less desirable than incoming freshmen? is thier money not green? do the pay less in tuition? Enrollement is good, if not great. you are stretching.

the dome? where are you going? who said anything about the dome?

but a trained chimpanzie was not president at the time. stanton was and he gets credit.
01-09-2012 10:46 PM
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BuccTiger Offline
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Post: #20
RE: Stanton in the Press
(01-09-2012 11:02 AM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  The unwritten thing is Dr. Stanton mortgaged the university to get these things done. The new dorms aren't paid for, they're being paid for by the students. All he did was get a token approval for bonds and debt service.
Dr. Stanton did accomplish some nice things, but even he knows that his legacy will ALWAYS be tied to dropping football.
I compare him alot to former POTUS George W. Bush. I don't believe neither are bad guys. I believe that both are incredibly intelligent overrall. Both of their problems resulted from not being surrounded by the right people, really great people to give him the information he needed to be so incredibly effective that the university would truly grow.
They gave the stat that more are living on campus, and that's great. 9 percent increase. Again it's not something he directly accomplished. How much has to do with the lottery scholarship and the lack of safe, affordable rental property around the campus? There's really not that much when you think about it. Not when you consider ETSU has almost 15,000 students. Compare it to Radford, there are apartment complexes completely around that campus, ETSU has Criminole Ridge or whatever it's called.
I guess ultimately, Dr. Stanton's body of work was good, but not great. He'll always be remembered for the football decision, and creating the disconnect between alumni and the university.
I hope it can be repaired with Dr. Noland.

Stanton is smart, but he has a temper and is prone to listening to his friends, his friends aren't always right.

GWB is as dumb as a bag of hammers.
(This post was last modified: 01-09-2012 10:50 PM by BuccTiger.)
01-09-2012 10:48 PM
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