And its not even april's fools day!

Maybe this year has been a blessing in disguise. A down year that pushed the Presidents into panic mode.

I was hoping for Kansas, Kansas St., and Missouri.

I'll take TCU and UCF/ECU for now but would love to add Kansas because its a national brand that you can't say no to.

wow I go away from my computer and I miss all this.

seems to me clear that the non-FB schools are pressuring Villanova heavily to upgrade their program, so that potentially (from their point of view) the BE can stay at 16. But I can't imagine why WVU, UL, etc. would agree to Villanova as a compromise with TCU sitting there interested. They leverage is on the FB side, and even with Villanova I don't think the BB side would be able to prevent a split if they balk at TCU. I would agree that 20 seems unrealistic, but maybe 18? Nova, TCU, Houston. Of course would create 11 for football, so... who knows. I doubt anybody has any clue what will happen at this point and that includes the BE presidents and ADs.

(11-01-2010 05:21 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 02:49 PM)dgrace4cards Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 02:27 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 02:15 PM)piratefan1975 Wrote:  I've been blowing this thread up today and it's been fun, but this is my last post.

I'm no TV exec and don't claim to have all the numbers. I'm not a decision maker in any way, shape or form; just enjoy expansion talk. With that being said, ECU has a sizable fanbase, over 27,000 students; the fastest growing school in one of the top ten most populated and fastest growing states in the Union.

Our fans travel from great distances to go to games as evidenced by our attendance vs. the population of Greenville. I'm not smart, but one thing's for certain, all those people aren't coming from the east unless they're coming by boat from Bermuda, which I don't think's the case. That only leaves north, south and west. To the north is Tidewater, VA and DC, the west is Raleigh-Durham (and Charlotte) and the south is, well, South Carolina. I make no claims that we carry any of these markets, but I do know we have a strong presence there. (That's like saying UCF carries Orlando) To dismiss us simply as Greenville being the 103rd ranked TV market is a little short-sighted. I think the Big East leadership is aware of our current/potential reach and influence on the Mid-Atlantic Seaboard.

Based on TV markets, these may agree...

105. Florida State
106. University of Nebraska
112. Boise State
114. Michigan State
116. University of Indiana
119. University of Oregon
143. Texas Tech University
160. University of Florida
183. University of Virginia

I like ECU and in terms of fan base attendance and overall football play over the past decade, it's likely the best of the C-USA options on paper. The problem is that I just don't think anyone outside of North Carolina and maybe some contingent areas in Virginia realizes it - there is virtually no national opinion about ECU (good, bad or indifferent). Memphis has a horrid football program, but they've played enough elite level basketball games where at least the average person off the street will hear the school's name and say, "Oh, that's a major basketball program." I'm not saying Memphis is a great option, either, as they truly have been terrible in football, yet there's some national name recognition.

Does the average sports fan in California or the Midwest turn on a football game to watch ECU just because ECU is involved? If we're being honest here, probably not. What about TCU? Well, that's likely a different answer.

Frank, can't you extend an invite to a team like ECU because they are ripe to benefit from a BCS upgrade, and have already put in the physical improvements to the facilities to be ready? I support ECU because they to me come across as a true college football program, and thats what the BE needs. Would you not extend a program an invite even if they aren't "there" yet, but with the BCS tag would certainly project to be on the same level as the rest of the league and most likely in a better position than some.

They along with TCU, UCF, and 1 of Houston/Memphis/Nova/Temple should be selected in two phases. TCU and ECU first phase and UCF and ? 2nd phase.

If I were running the Big East (or any other BCS conference), I would only invite schools that are clearly unabashed improvements to the conference today, both in reality (BCS criteria) and public perception. Throw out all of the market size data (although not irrelevant) and do people believe intuitively that the move makes sense? Frankly, less is more for the Big East. There isn't a Penn State/Notre Dame-type school that's going to vault BE revenue into the stratosphere, so I don't see a financial reason to go up to 12 football schools. TCU improves the perception of the league drastically and makes the national TV games look more attractive all around. That's about the only school that seems to make intuitive sense (and even they aren't perfect).

The way people talk, it feels like they are forgetting that the Big East is actually already a BCS conference here. The conference's aim should be to get the maximum return on the smallest expansion possible because its revenues are already the lowest at the BCS level and it gets tougher financially to make it work with each additional school. 9 or 10 football schools would be a perfectly good size (TCU plus maybe School X - if I had to guess and assuming Villanova doesn't move up, School X would be Temple even if they aren't exactly completely deserving of it).

I agree with everything you say here, with the exception we need to focus on 12 teams for scheduling purposes and ultimately for tv contract/revenue purposes. I think a 2 phase deal is the best way to go, with the automatic being TCU, then choose between ECU/UCF for the 2nd team in phase 1. If Nova decides to come on board they are automatically defaulted to the second phase, and its an arms race for the last team to be invited. Meanwhile that leaves an opening to invite KU/KState/MU to go to 14 if the Big 12 collapses. Get to 10 to resolve scheduling problems and by 2012 fall have your lineup in place be it publically or privately to negotiate the new tv contract.

And what id the ACC & Big 10 expand to 14 teams. It leaves us with 6 teams. BE has to go to 12 of 14 teams to survie possible raids.

(11-01-2010 02:18 PM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 02:11 PM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 01:50 PM)qwerty1 Wrote:  The only reason Temple is mentioned by Big East sources is to force Villanova's hand. Temple will never get back into the Big East.

Villanova might be able to split home games between the soccer stadium, University of Pennsylvania's Franklin Field, and possibly the Phillies home stadium. Wasn't scheduling control of a home stadium on Saturdays one of the criteria that got Temple kicked out in the first place? I'll answer that: Yes it was.

Big East: The gift that keeps on giving.

I'll debate this with you. If the FB schools are looking at splitting, Temple is definitely in play. If Nova doesn't jump up and the FB schools split, there is no chance they abandon the 4th largest market in the country. Even if they don't split, that sized market adds to the TV value.

I agree with you here. It's not that I think Temple is exactly a great addition, but frankly, they add as much or more than Villanova in a split situation. They don't have any start-up costs to move up to FBS and or any stadium issues. The problems that they do have (attendance, fan base, tepid support in Philly market) are the exact problems that Villanova would have. I understand why Villanova would be asked to move up if there isn't a split since it would obviously be a compromise to keep the hybrid together, but they make absolutely no sense in a split league when Temple is essentially brining the same elements or more to the table.

Villanova will move up. But for argument's sake, let's say Villanova does not move up. Now let's rewind to 2003 when VT & BC jumped (abandonded?) ship and Temple became a leading candidate to fill in one of those slots as an all-sports member. Villanova worked with their longtime Big East partner schools to keep Temple out when the vote came up. Villanova smartly managed the situation to keep and expand their hold on the Philadelphia market. Fast forward to 2010/2011. Is there any reason to think Temple would fare any better with the Big East voting to get in as an all-sports member? And would the Big East even consider bringing in a football only associate member of the Big East conference ever again? Would Temple even consider coming back in this half-assed manner?

Temple is only being bantered about by the Big East to force Villanova into joining the football side of the Big East. Villanova understands the calculus better than anyone. Villanova moves up and Temple will forever be on the BCS sidelines (MAC football)/and in a non-power basketball conference (A-10).

With that said, the Big East has become a complete joke as a major collegiate sports conference. Villanova playing home football games split between the soccer stadium in Chester PA, Franklin Field in West Philadelphia, and the Phillies ballpark at the sports complex in South Philadelphia should make for some interesting marketing spin by the Big East people.

Whoever said we wouldn't be as deep in hoops. ND and Gtown are the only NCAA bid teams we lose UL Cuse Pitt WVU UConn Nova would still be there plus UC and UH have strong histories and could maybe get back to their glory days in a smaller conference. Not to mention we save the room to go super one day by adding Kansas Mizzou and KState. All pretty good hoops schools IMO. We could arguably be deeper in hoops at that point and might even be able to throw Memphis a bone.

(11-01-2010 06:52 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  wow I go away from my computer and I miss all this.

seems to me clear that the non-FB schools are pressuring Villanova heavily to upgrade their program, so that potentially (from their point of view) the BE can stay at 16. But I can't imagine why WVU, UL, etc. would agree to Villanova as a compromise with TCU sitting there interested. They leverage is on the FB side, and even with Villanova I don't think the BB side would be able to prevent a split if they balk at TCU. I would agree that 20 seems unrealistic, but maybe 18? Nova, TCU, Houston. Of course would create 11 for football, so... who knows. I doubt anybody has any clue what will happen at this point and that includes the BE presidents and ADs.

Adding TCU, Houston, ECU and UCF gets us to 12 teams. This covers our @zz when Rutgers, and Pitt or Cuse goes to the Big 10 next year. We will still have 10 teams and we can wait for Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Iowa State, Baylor next year after the B12 implodes.

(11-01-2010 06:04 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 06:00 PM)Joshua Wrote:  I'm surprised nobody has brought up the fact that now all of a sudden Houston is being mentioned as a leading candidate.... Wasn't it last week that the UH President tweeted that conferences are still shifting at a CUSA Board meeting....

Interesting....

Yep. Most thought that had to do with a potential CUSA/MWC merger. But with this news, maybe not?

Also, I keep thinking back to Sandiss' post that hinted at 20/12.

I can't imagine why they would want to bloat this already overbloated conference to 20, but we will see.

Cheers,
Neil

Ahh crap I forgot all about that one.... Someone should really post a flow chart linking all of these clues together....

(11-01-2010 06:17 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 06:04 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 06:00 PM)Joshua Wrote:  I'm surprised nobody has brought up the fact that now all of a sudden Houston is being mentioned as a leading candidate.... Wasn't it last week that the UH President tweeted that conferences are still shifting at a CUSA Board meeting....

Interesting....

Yep. Most thought that had to do with a potential CUSA/MWC merger. But with this news, maybe not?

Also, I keep thinking back to Sandiss' post that hinted at 20/12.

I can't imagine why they would want to bloat this already overbloated conference to 20, but we will see.

Cheers,
Neil

Hey you live in the northeast and should know that like any good Italian or Irish Catholic family, "there's always room for one more"

Absolutely the case speaking as an American of both Irish and Italian descent. Also, I'd throw the Jews in on that one too.

(11-01-2010 07:44 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 06:52 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  wow I go away from my computer and I miss all this.

seems to me clear that the non-FB schools are pressuring Villanova heavily to upgrade their program, so that potentially (from their point of view) the BE can stay at 16. But I can't imagine why WVU, UL, etc. would agree to Villanova as a compromise with TCU sitting there interested. They leverage is on the FB side, and even with Villanova I don't think the BB side would be able to prevent a split if they balk at TCU. I would agree that 20 seems unrealistic, but maybe 18? Nova, TCU, Houston. Of course would create 11 for football, so... who knows. I doubt anybody has any clue what will happen at this point and that includes the BE presidents and ADs.

Adding TCU, Houston, ECU and UCF gets us to 12 teams. This covers our @zz when Rutgers, and Pitt or Cuse goes to the Big 10 next year. We will still have 10 teams and we can wait for Kansas, Kansas State, Missouri, Iowa State, Baylor next year after the B12 implodes.

Wilkie...We both know that logic will not likely play into this equation.

(11-01-2010 09:22 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 08:43 AM)buckaineer Wrote:  Memphis is awful in football and their facilities and academics don't help them. Their market is much smaller than the other candidates.

Memphis football is "awful" right now, but there is nothing which cannot (or will not) be fixed. Besides, 5 bowls in the last 7 1/2 years is better than many schools can say. Memphis academics are no worse than the other state school candidates. Facilities are better than you think (light years ahead of Villanova, at least) and are being steadily improved in accordance with Tranghese's recommendations. Memphis brings a top 50 TV market which it delivers, the tradition-rich Liberty Bowl, strong corporate support for the Big East network, nationally-recognized rivalries with Louisville and Cincinatti, is a logical extension of the Big East footprint and a great basketball program. Big East officials would be foolish to overlook all that UofM offers.

Dude I agree with everything you said AFTER the first two sentences.

Memphis football, in recent history has never been anything but average...at best... with the exception of the years you had Wrimpine(sp?) and the beast of a running back (his name escapes me at the moment) and even in those years you couldn't win the conference.

Memphis has alot to offer the BE, football is not included.

(11-01-2010 05:13 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 04:15 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 04:12 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 12:01 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  At this point ECU has done everything it is capable of doing to be ready. Expanded the stadium, filled the stadium, upgraded every single athletic facility, won back to back championships, so if it isn't enough then it never will be. It's as simple as that. We will have tough decisions to make if we get left behind again.

And you can almost bet the house...ECU will not be going anywhere. It just is not in the cards at this time. Regardless..We will be fine.

If this does happen, that UCF joins the BE and ECU doesn't, I hope the series will continue at least occasionally (as I hope UCF-Marshall continues off and on). The internet bad blood aside, I think ECU is a good program and would be my choice to join the BE along with us.

You know...When the "super conference" stuff finally shakes out...There are going to be a few schools left out in the cold. I fully expect that ECU will be one of them. When that happens...I expect to see the price of scheduling teams like ECU for OOC play to jump astronomically. Nothing would please me more than to see the "have nots" simply gouge the hell out of the "haves"...BCS schools can only play a limited number of lower division opponents and remain in the BCS. Maybe those that are left will just join together and use the rules to set up their own little syndicate.

Well i doubt it's gonna go to high cuz if you think they can just triple the rate you would loose out
1. they would go to like 10 or 11 confrence games
2. they would schedule other BCS schools h@h cheaper then non aq schools
Then you will be playing alot of fcs schools on your schedule

(11-01-2010 08:50 PM)papablastter Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 05:13 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 04:15 PM)CitrusUCF Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 04:12 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 12:01 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  At this point ECU has done everything it is capable of doing to be ready. Expanded the stadium, filled the stadium, upgraded every single athletic facility, won back to back championships, so if it isn't enough then it never will be. It's as simple as that. We will have tough decisions to make if we get left behind again.

And you can almost bet the house...ECU will not be going anywhere. It just is not in the cards at this time. Regardless..We will be fine.

If this does happen, that UCF joins the BE and ECU doesn't, I hope the series will continue at least occasionally (as I hope UCF-Marshall continues off and on). The internet bad blood aside, I think ECU is a good program and would be my choice to join the BE along with us.

You know...When the "super conference" stuff finally shakes out...There are going to be a few schools left out in the cold. I fully expect that ECU will be one of them. When that happens...I expect to see the price of scheduling teams like ECU for OOC play to jump astronomically. Nothing would please me more than to see the "have nots" simply gouge the hell out of the "haves"...BCS schools can only play a limited number of lower division opponents and remain in the BCS. Maybe those that are left will just join together and use the rules to set up their own little syndicate.

Well i doubt it's gonna go to high cuz if you think they can just triple the rate you would loose out
1. they would go to like 10 or 11 confrence games
2. they would schedule other BCS schools h@h cheaper then non aq schools
Then you will be playing alot of fcs schools on your schedule

Yup...That is exactly what is going to happen. That is the main reason conferences want to increase the number league games so they do not have to pay for these one and done OOC games.

I am shocked how Memphis has gone from one of the leading candidates to not mentioned. Memphis is obviously having a poor rebuilding season in football that is swaying the board talk. This past summer many were okay with the Tigers being taken (when the UCF and Memphis rumors were hot) and certainly most would have had them in their top 4 candidates. Amazing how it has changed in a few months.

(11-01-2010 06:04 PM)omnicarrier Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 06:00 PM)Joshua Wrote:  I'm surprised nobody has brought up the fact that now all of a sudden Houston is being mentioned as a leading candidate.... Wasn't it last week that the UH President tweeted that conferences are still shifting at a CUSA Board meeting....

Interesting....

Yep. Most thought that had to do with a potential CUSA/MWC merger. But with this news, maybe not?

Also, I keep thinking back to Sandiss' post that hinted at 20/12.

I can't imagine why they would want to bloat this already overbloated conference to 20, but we will see.

Cheers,
Neil

Very intersting. With the thought of Temple/Villanova and the power of Villanova to influence..... could it be that they are ok with the 12/20 no FBS so long as Temple is not included? Would then lead to the potenital best 12 in football by adding TCU/Houston/UCF/ECU?

(11-01-2010 09:01 PM)TigerPete Wrote:  I am shocked how Memphis has gone from one of the leading candidates to not mentioned. Memphis is obviously having a poor rebuilding season in football that is swaying the board talk. This past summer many were okay with the Tigers being taken (when the UCF and Memphis rumors were hot) and certainly most would have had them in their top 4 candidates. Amazing how it has changed in a few months.

Wrong. I consistently hated the idea of Memphis joining the BE from the very beginning. The only people that were on board were a few who lost their marbles for a moment and were hoping to reunite with an "old friend". Cooler heads are now prevailing, and the majority on here now realize that Memphis will NEVER be able to play the quality of football that the BE conf truly needs. The BE is not the Dept of Welfare...

When you look at what has transpired in terms of Memphis, there may not be one article from a source outside of Memphis that ever had UM joining the Big East. Everything from the league office re: Memphis has been no, they won't be added.

At the last BE media days people were reportedly making a running joke about the most recent fiasco involving a Memphis invite--that can't be a good thing for anyone desiring admittance to a league.

(11-01-2010 09:11 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(11-01-2010 09:01 PM)TigerPete Wrote:  I am shocked how Memphis has gone from one of the leading candidates to not mentioned. Memphis is obviously having a poor rebuilding season in football that is swaying the board talk. This past summer many were okay with the Tigers being taken (when the UCF and Memphis rumors were hot) and certainly most would have had them in their top 4 candidates. Amazing how it has changed in a few months.

Wrong. I consistently hated the idea of Memphis joining the BE from the very beginning. The only people that were on board were a few who lost their marbles for a moment and were hoping to reunite with an "old friend". Cooler heads are now prevailing, and the majority on here now realize that Memphis will NEVER be able to play the quality of football that the BE conf truly needs. The BE is not the Dept of Welfare...

Now now Miko be nice......it could be Christmas Eve for all of us here and some since of where the conference is going could be revealed...play nice and friendly

(11-01-2010 06:49 PM)thatsnotgrass Wrote:  Maybe this year has been a blessing in disguise. A down year that pushed the Presidents into panic mode.

I was hoping for Kansas, Kansas St., and Missouri.

I'll take TCU and UCF/ECU for now but would love to add Kansas because its a national brand that you can't say no to.

One thing that I know about the folks who lead the BE is that they do not react from panic. Every move they have ever made regarding expansion, has always been slow, deliberate and cautious. I would be surprised if this one bad season is the reason they are looking to make moves now.