I agree with Tribeheart. I think Tot, Harrison, and Glover should see some more minutes than usual but only at the expense of Milon, Rowley, Pierce, or Knight. I would even like to see the two practice players (who are both seniors) get a few minutes, too (perhaps start the second half and play a minute or two). I envision seniors Cohn, Burchfield, Tot, Harrison, and Glover starting the game.

The wild card in these suppositions is that Tony and W&M should still want to win this game. W&M can still get the 3 seed with a win (and help) and I'm sure that Tony wants all the usual starters to stay sharp. In fact, if the game is close, then the box score minutes will probably look a lot like today's game.

Hats off to Drexel for going into the NCAA record book tonight. With Williams back in the lineup, and now that kind of comeback on their resume, no one will be comfortable against them in these last two weeks.

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(02-22-2018 09:08 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  Hofstra is 3 if they win, and 4 if they lose to Towson and the Tribe beats Charleston on Saturday.

As one of your fans said in another topic, you need more than that to get the 3 seed. You also need Elon to beat Northeastern. If you and Northeastern win, Charleston and Northeastern will tie for first, and tiebreakers are done based on tied teams together. You and Hofstra would both be 1-3 vs. Charleston and Northeastern, and Hofstra would get the 3 seed with a better record again Towson than you.

(02-22-2018 10:37 PM)WMtribe17 Wrote:  Anyone think we should rest our starters Saturday? Not saying completely bench, but I would like to see the starters top out at 20 minutes and give them a little bit extra rest for the CAA tourney while giving guys like Loewe & Williams good minutes against a good team. I doubt Hofstra loses since Towson sucks against everybody not named W&M.

I think we should play to win Saturday. We're 2-4 over the last six games with those wins over the #8 and #10 teams right now.

I would've loved to see Loewe and Williams into the rotation earlier in the year, but this game vs. Charleston sets the tone for the tournament. Regardless of seeding, this game is very important to this team.

A loss here and we're 1-7 against the other top 4 teams in the conference. Win here and we roll into Charleston believing we can beat anyone.

(02-23-2018 10:04 AM)EvanJ Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 09:08 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  Hofstra is 3 if they win, and 4 if they lose to Towson and the Tribe beats Charleston on Saturday.

As one of your fans said in another topic, you need more than that to get the 3 seed. You also need Elon to beat Northeastern. If you and Northeastern win, Charleston and Northeastern will tie for first, and tiebreakers are done based on tied teams together. You and Hofstra would both be 1-3 vs. Charleston and Northeastern, and Hofstra would get the 3 seed with a better record again Towson than you.

Evan, I will respectfully disagree with you, although I do not have the facts to back me up. I contend that if Northeastern and Charleston were to end up tied, they break their tie first and Charleston is already the one seed by sweeping the season series. I would further contend that if W&M and Hofstra wound up tied after tomorrow, you would look at our records versus Charleston first, since they are going to be the 1 seed. We would be 1-1 versus Charleston, and Hofstra would be 0-2. You are basing your theory on the two of them being considered tied as it pertains to our tie breaker. I am just offering up an alternative to your theory.

I think Evan is, unfortunately, correct. If you go back and look at official CAA news postings for past years tie breaker scenarios, they consistently group teams together that have the same conference records and don't place them in order of their separate tie breaker placement when applying tie breaker rules. Consequently, if CofC and Northeastern finish with the same record, our tie breaker with Hofstra would be the combined record against them first, then the record against Towson, regardless of CofC getting the #1 seed.

So, unless Northeastern loses, we are pretty much set as the 4th seed. We play Towson, unless we squeeze out the #3 seed (Tribe win, Towson win and Northeastern loss), or Towson loses and Elon wins out.

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(02-22-2018 11:49 PM)Tribeheart Wrote:  Hats off to Drexel for going into the NCAA record book tonight. With Williams back in the lineup, and now that kind of comeback on their resume, no one will be comfortable against them in these last two weeks.

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It's amazing just how different Drexel is with Williams on the court. Literally competitive with everyone in the conference when he is on the court. Probably unlikely to beat anyone with him off of it. However this is also a huge cause for concern next season once he graduates. He has a legit case for defensive player of the year. Isabell has a nice case for POY but with the team record that is a tough sell, but he has had an incredible year so it was nice that he was front and center of this nice press this morning for Drexel

(02-23-2018 11:19 AM)WMTRIBE75 Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 10:04 AM)EvanJ Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 09:08 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  Hofstra is 3 if they win, and 4 if they lose to Towson and the Tribe beats Charleston on Saturday.

As one of your fans said in another topic, you need more than that to get the 3 seed. You also need Elon to beat Northeastern. If you and Northeastern win, Charleston and Northeastern will tie for first, and tiebreakers are done based on tied teams together. You and Hofstra would both be 1-3 vs. Charleston and Northeastern, and Hofstra would get the 3 seed with a better record again Towson than you.

Evan, I will respectfully disagree with you, although I do not have the facts to back me up. I contend that if Northeastern and Charleston were to end up tied, they break their tie first and Charleston is already the one seed by sweeping the season series. I would further contend that if W&M and Hofstra wound up tied after tomorrow, you would look at our records versus Charleston first, since they are going to be the 1 seed. We would be 1-1 versus Charleston, and Hofstra would be 0-2. You are basing your theory on the two of them being considered tied as it pertains to our tie breaker. I am just offering up an alternative to your theory.

(02-23-2018 11:50 AM)Tribeheart Wrote:  I think Evan is, unfortunately, correct. If you go back and look at official CAA news postings for past years tie breaker scenarios, they consistently group teams together that have the same conference records and don't place them in order of their separate tie breaker placement when applying tie breaker rules. Consequently, if CofC and Northeastern finish with the same record, our tie breaker with Hofstra would be the combined record against them first, then the record against Towson, regardless of CofC getting the #1 seed.

So, unless Northeastern loses, we are pretty much set as the 4th seed. We play Towson, unless we squeeze out the #3 seed (Tribe win, Towson win and Northeastern loss), or Towson loses and Elon wins out.

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I believe WMTribe75 is correct. Further, imagine the chaos and consternation (and stink) involved if the CAA told Charleston "hey, despite your beating NE head-to-head TWICE, we are breaking this tie based on how you jointly did against lower level bottom feeders in the conference". There is no way that that could possibly be true to break a two-way head-to-head tiebreaker where one team won both games!!!!!!!!!!!

(02-23-2018 12:33 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 11:19 AM)WMTRIBE75 Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 10:04 AM)EvanJ Wrote:  

(02-22-2018 09:08 PM)TribePride91 Wrote:  Hofstra is 3 if they win, and 4 if they lose to Towson and the Tribe beats Charleston on Saturday.

As one of your fans said in another topic, you need more than that to get the 3 seed. You also need Elon to beat Northeastern. If you and Northeastern win, Charleston and Northeastern will tie for first, and tiebreakers are done based on tied teams together. You and Hofstra would both be 1-3 vs. Charleston and Northeastern, and Hofstra would get the 3 seed with a better record again Towson than you.

Evan, I will respectfully disagree with you, although I do not have the facts to back me up. I contend that if Northeastern and Charleston were to end up tied, they break their tie first and Charleston is already the one seed by sweeping the season series. I would further contend that if W&M and Hofstra wound up tied after tomorrow, you would look at our records versus Charleston first, since they are going to be the 1 seed. We would be 1-1 versus Charleston, and Hofstra would be 0-2. You are basing your theory on the two of them being considered tied as it pertains to our tie breaker. I am just offering up an alternative to your theory.

(02-23-2018 11:50 AM)Tribeheart Wrote:  I think Evan is, unfortunately, correct. If you go back and look at official CAA news postings for past years tie breaker scenarios, they consistently group teams together that have the same conference records and don't place them in order of their separate tie breaker placement when applying tie breaker rules. Consequently, if CofC and Northeastern finish with the same record, our tie breaker with Hofstra would be the combined record against them first, then the record against Towson, regardless of CofC getting the #1 seed.

So, unless Northeastern loses, we are pretty much set as the 4th seed. We play Towson, unless we squeeze out the #3 seed (Tribe win, Towson win and Northeastern loss), or Towson loses and Elon wins out.

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I believe WMTribe75 is correct. Further, imagine the chaos and consternation (and stink) involved if the CAA told Charleston "hey, despite your beating NE head-to-head TWICE, we are breaking this tie based on how you jointly did against lower level bottom feeders in the conference". There is no way that that could possibly be true to break a two-way head-to-head tiebreaker where one team won both games!!!!!!!!!!!

No one is questioning the Charleston/Northeastern tie breaker. The bone of contention here is if the W&M/Hofstra tie breaker treats Charleston and Northeastern as being tied, or does the Charleston/Northeastern tie get broken first.

Based on the 2016 tiebreakers, it *appears* that first place tie is broken and then however that shakes out is used for the tiebreakers further down. Hope the CAA puts out another one of these today before the games this weekend!

http://www.caasports.com/news/2016/2/26/...62513.aspx

I would expect that these rules have not changed in the past 3-4 years. Have at it:

2013-14 CAA HANDBOOK
Page 44 - SEEDING

4.07 Championship Seeding.
The following procedures will be utilized as a general guideline for seeding for all Association championships in which the complete regular season schedule has been played. In the event that all teams do not play a complete conference schedule, championship seeding will be based on winning percentage in conference contests.

Please refer to Executive Regulation 1.01 and individual sport regulations for specific seeding criteria. [Revised: October 19, 2009]

A. Two Tied Teams:
1. Regular season conference record.
2. Head-to-head competition.
3. If two tied teams split the two games during the regular season, compare each tied team’s record against the team occupying the highest position in the standings and continue down through the standings until one team gains the advantage, thereby winning the higher position. (Ties must be broken from top to bottom.)
See Example Below.
4. If a tie still exists, a coin flip conducted by the Commissioner will be used.


B. Three or More Tied Teams:
1. Compare the combined record of each of the tied teams against the other teams involved in the tie until an advantage is gained. (Example: team A’s combined record against both team B and team C as compared to B’s combined record against both A and C, etc.).
2. If the multiple tie still exists, compare each of the tied teams’ records against the team occupying the highest position in the standings and continue down through the standings until the tie is reduced to a two-team tie (at which time, revert to the two-team process) or until the tie is broken.

3. If a tie still exists, a coin flip conducted by the Commissioner will be used.

Example:
Assume a 2-way tie for the number 1 seed.
Assume a 2-way tie for the number 4 seed.

Here is how the seeds will be determined:
1. The two teams tied for #1 split during the regular season. (tie not broken).
2. The two #1’s had identical records versus #3. (tie not broken).
3. The two #1’s will have their records compared as a “pool” of the teams tied for #4. If an advantage is gained, that team will be the #1 seed and the other will be #2.
In the case of the tie for 4th:
1. The teams split during the regular season. (tie not broken).
2. The teams’ records compared against the opponents’ records starting at the top of the standings
– now with the #1 seed established as the first comparison. [This will not be a “pool” comparison of the two teams that finished the regular season tied because the tie is broken. Further support of the reason why this is not a “pool” comparison of the tied teams is the example of two teams tied for first, but one team swept the other and is the clear #1 seed. There would be no reason to argue a “pool” consideration in that case].




I'm just the provider here...don't ask me to explain them.

The simple answer is, tribetime10 is correct, once a tie has been broken, that settles it, and the rest of the tiebreakers are decided off the tie decision above it.

Sounds straightforward to me based on the example.

Looks like Tribe win + Hofstra loss = 3rd seed.

(02-23-2018 01:12 PM)billymac Wrote:  The simple answer is, tribetimes10 is correct, once a tie has been broken, that settles it, and the rest of the tiebreakers are decided off the tie decision above it.

Friday afternoon AND I get a "tribetime10 is correct" from Bilymac! What a day!

(02-23-2018 01:15 PM)tribetime10 Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 01:12 PM)billymac Wrote:  The simple answer is, tribetimes10 is correct, once a tie has been broken, that settles it, and the rest of the tiebreakers are decided off the tie decision above it.

Friday afternoon AND I get a "tribetime10 is correct" from Bilymac! What a day!

Do I get a prize for arguing the point first without the supporting documentation? That was the logic on which my rebuttal of EvanJ was based. Now we can only hope that it becomes relevant tomorrow. I think that we have a better chance of taking care of our business than Towson knocking off Hofstra.

(02-23-2018 12:47 PM)WMTRIBE75 Wrote:  No one is questioning the Charleston/Northeastern tie breaker. The bone of contention here is if the W&M/Hofstra tie breaker treats Charleston and Northeastern as being tied, or does the Charleston/Northeastern tie get broken first.

I didn't realize that aspect was the bone of contention --- because (and I say this with all due respect) but of course you break the tie at #1 first. It has always been that way and I doubt that anyone could point to a league that would do it any other way.

(02-23-2018 03:25 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 12:47 PM)WMTRIBE75 Wrote:  No one is questioning the Charleston/Northeastern tie breaker. The bone of contention here is if the W&M/Hofstra tie breaker treats Charleston and Northeastern as being tied, or does the Charleston/Northeastern tie get broken first.

I didn't realize that aspect was the bone of contention --- because (and I say this with all due respect) but of course you break the tie at #1 first. It has always been that way and I doubt that anyone could point to a league that would do it any other way.

And that was my feeling also.

Thanks for going to the actual rule, Billymac. It's what I get for only reading the first part of the 2016 seeding news article I looked at. I'll go back in my hole now.

Would much rather grab that #3 seed.

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(02-23-2018 03:25 PM)Zorch Wrote:  

(02-23-2018 12:47 PM)WMTRIBE75 Wrote:  No one is questioning the Charleston/Northeastern tie breaker. The bone of contention here is if the W&M/Hofstra tie breaker treats Charleston and Northeastern as being tied, or does the Charleston/Northeastern tie get broken first.

I didn't realize that aspect was the bone of contention --- because (and I say this with all due respect) but of course you break the tie at #1 first. It has always been that way and I doubt that anyone could point to a league that would do it any other way.

Tied teams were treated as groups two seasons ago. http://caasports.com/news/2016/2/26/MBB_...ath=mbball says:

"If there is a 3-way tie for third at 11-7 between James Madison, Towson and William & Mary and Northeastern finishes in sixth at 9-9, Hofstra is the #1 seed. Both teams have 4-2 records against the teams tied for third place, but Hofstra has a better record (2-0) than UNCW (1-1) vs. Northeastern.

Evan, you need to read further in that article and the additional examples. As the rules stated, they are treated as a group when deciding the seeding of a group above them in the ladder. Once the seeding of a group is decided, they are no longer treated as a group for tie breaker purposes of groups below them as you work your way down.

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