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(02-02-2018 02:06 PM)757ODU Wrote:  What I am getting at is that the time adds up over the year.

I understand that argument, but I just don't know. These are young men, playing two games per week. I'm just not sure on a Thursday night game after not playing since Saturday, that it is a physical tiredness that is the issue. If anything, I'd be more apt to believe that Ahmad is mentally exhausted from having to run the team for 40 minutes per night all season and he loses focus down the stretch of tight, physical games.

(02-02-2018 11:34 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 11:23 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 11:00 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  FWIW, MTSU is a top 40 team. They have won tourney games in back to back years. Claiming any of our teams would win might be a stretch(probably had 1-2 that were on the same level). Claiming they would run through the conference is ridiculous.

That team was Final 4 capable. Lost on a tip in at the buzzer to the national runner up after running through a 3-bid conference and blowing out an eventual Final 4 team in their backyard. MTSU is not on that level. First win was a 15/2 fluke and last year they got a good 1st round draw. I have no doubt we would have run through this conference. Maybe not undefeated, but we certainly would have held serve at home and won the big ones and the tournament. I also like this team, but maybe you aren't old enough to remember how good those other teams were and how they stepped up every single time.

We were a 9 seed with 4 CAA losses (7 losses overall). KenPom had us as the 48th team. MTSU is ranked as the 41st best team this year.

Claiming that team is was a final four caliber team through transitive properties is a stretch.

There is no way to accurately use KenPom rankings for an ODU team having a ranking of #48 back 7 years ago and say that it has any relevance what so ever in using it as evidence against a current team graded out as being #41. That is far more of a stretch than saying that ODU was a Final Four caliber team.

It isn't a transitive property to say that VCU and Butler made up half of that season's Final Four. It also isn't a transitive property to say that ODU defeated VCU 2 out of 3 games that season, or that it lost on a buzzer beater shot off a rebound to Butler. It isn't a transitive property to say that ODU played half the Final Four field that season a total of 4 times and held their own with a 2-2 record in them. The total point differential for the 4 games combined was a +8 for ODU.

Yes, some things would have had to have gone right along the way for ODU to have reached the Final Four that season, much like it had to go right for both Butler and VCU to reach it. However, it is clear by the games played and actual results that occurred that ODU was a Final Four caliber team that season. Personally I think that team would be the best team in CUSA if they were playing for ODU today, and it might not even be close. I've got a strong feeling that Mr. Bazemore could do a very nice job defensively on Potts, and probably Finney would have matched up well with King. If not then they could have put someone taller like Cooper or Carter on him.

Some additional facts -

1). At the time of the CAA Tournament, ODU was leading the nation in rebounding margin. They may also have ended the season as the nation's leader, (not sure). At any rate, it is highly unlikely that starters 6'-9" Hassell, 6'-9" Cooper, 6'-5" Finney, and 6'-5" Bazemore, along with 6'-9" Carter coming off the bench would have gotten beaten so badly on the boards like ODU did last night. In all likelihood it would have been the other way around.

2). Seniors James, Hassell, Carter, and Finney won a total of 97 games in their ODU careers, including beating VCU a total of 4 times in the city of Richmond - twice in the Siegel Center, and twice at the Richmond Coliseum in the CAA Tournament. Amazing how that used to be a rather routine occurrence having an ODU team win over a VCU team.

(02-02-2018 01:41 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 01:37 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 01:07 PM)odu83alumni Wrote:  Every really good team needs a finisher when it comes to crunch time when you are playing a very good team. This is something we miss. Someone like Bazemore or Freeman. Nobody can nail it when coming down the stretch.

If you don't have that guy, it helps to have a coach that can design something to get a good shot late in games. Jones crumbles in crunch time.

Then you must consider open 3 point opportunities by Caver and Haynes to be bad shots?

Do you? You have stated several times before that in your view teams should only shoot 3 pointer and layups.

As far as Caver goes and his shooting. I don’t buy the whole He’s tired stuff. I was commenting the whole game that Cavers shot is so flat he’s lucky to make any. It’s always been that way, hell even in warm ups. These kids grow up in the AAU culture where they play several games a day over multiple days. They are used to playing a lot. The guy just isn’t a prolific shooter. Wish he could get to the hole or inside the lane a lot more, he’s so quick.

(02-02-2018 02:34 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 01:41 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 01:37 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 01:07 PM)odu83alumni Wrote:  Every really good team needs a finisher when it comes to crunch time when you are playing a very good team. This is something we miss. Someone like Bazemore or Freeman. Nobody can nail it when coming down the stretch.

If you don't have that guy, it helps to have a coach that can design something to get a good shot late in games. Jones crumbles in crunch time.

Then you must consider open 3 point opportunities by Caver and Haynes to be bad shots?

Do you? You have stated several times before that in your view teams should only shoot 3 pointer and layups.

FWIW, 3s, layups, and drives/play that create fouls.

I don't think either shot by Caver or Haynes were bad shots considering the stinginess of MTSU's defense (under .9 points per possession). So, a wide open 3 point shot by a 30% shooter is probably a decent-to-good look against them.

(02-02-2018 02:32 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 11:34 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 11:23 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 11:00 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  FWIW, MTSU is a top 40 team. They have won tourney games in back to back years. Claiming any of our teams would win might be a stretch(probably had 1-2 that were on the same level). Claiming they would run through the conference is ridiculous.

That team was Final 4 capable. Lost on a tip in at the buzzer to the national runner up after running through a 3-bid conference and blowing out an eventual Final 4 team in their backyard. MTSU is not on that level. First win was a 15/2 fluke and last year they got a good 1st round draw. I have no doubt we would have run through this conference. Maybe not undefeated, but we certainly would have held serve at home and won the big ones and the tournament. I also like this team, but maybe you aren't old enough to remember how good those other teams were and how they stepped up every single time.

We were a 9 seed with 4 CAA losses (7 losses overall). KenPom had us as the 48th team. MTSU is ranked as the 41st best team this year.

Claiming that team is was a final four caliber team through transitive properties is a stretch.

There is no way to accurately use KenPom rankings for an ODU team having a ranking of #48 back 7 years ago and say that it has any relevance what so ever in using it as evidence against a current team graded out as being #41. That is far more of a stretch than saying that ODU was a Final Four caliber team.

It isn't a transitive property to say that VCU and Butler made up half of that season's Final Four. It also isn't a transitive property to say that ODU defeated VCU 2 out of 3 games that season, or that it lost on a buzzer beater shot off a rebound to Butler. It isn't a transitive property to say that ODU played half the Final Four field that season a total of 4 times and held their own with a 2-2 record in them. The total point differential for the 4 games combined was a +8 for ODU.

Yes, some things would have had to have gone right along the way for ODU to have reached the Final Four that season, much like it had to go right for both Butler and VCU to reach it. However, it is clear by the games played and actual results that occurred that ODU was a Final Four caliber team that season. Personally I think that team would be the best team in CUSA if they were playing for ODU today, and it might not even be close. I've got a strong feeling that Mr. Bazemore could do a very nice job defensively on Potts, and probably Finney would have matched up well with King. If not then they could have put someone taller like Cooper or Carter on him.

Some additional facts -

1). At the time of the CAA Tournament, ODU was leading the nation in rebounding margin. They may also have ended the season as the nation's leader, (not sure). At any rate, it is highly unlikely that starters 6'-9" Hassell, 6'-9" Cooper, 6'-5" Finney, and 6'-5" Bazemore, along with 6'-9" Carter coming off the bench would have gotten beaten so badly on the boards like ODU did last night. In all likelihood it would have been the other way around.

2). Seniors James, Hassell, Carter, and Finney won a total of 97 games in their ODU careers, including beating VCU a total of 4 times in the city of Richmond - twice in the Siegel Center, and twice at the Richmond Coliseum in the CAA Tournament. Amazing how that used to be a rather routine occurrence having an ODU team win over a VCU team.

As I said, claiming ODU would blow through the conference is a stretch. Claiming they would beat MTSU is a decent argument.

What Butler or VCU did was meaningless. Neither were top 15 teams in the country, but circumstances/luck/hot streak helped them get to the final 4. Just because Butler went on to beat Pittsburgh doesn't mean ODU would have.

The better team didn't play well in these 2 critical games. Lost shooting confidence down the stretch in both games.

Hopefully, it relieves some pressure going into the tournament. I think they'll finally win it.

Antwain Johnson was throwing up a lot of prayers and making them.

Uncharacteristic fan participation last night. What happened to the white out? These games against WK and MT deserved sellouts. Should have been played on Saturday.

Those LED ad boards are out of control.

(02-02-2018 02:52 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 02:32 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 11:34 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 11:23 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 11:00 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  FWIW, MTSU is a top 40 team. They have won tourney games in back to back years. Claiming any of our teams would win might be a stretch(probably had 1-2 that were on the same level). Claiming they would run through the conference is ridiculous.

That team was Final 4 capable. Lost on a tip in at the buzzer to the national runner up after running through a 3-bid conference and blowing out an eventual Final 4 team in their backyard. MTSU is not on that level. First win was a 15/2 fluke and last year they got a good 1st round draw. I have no doubt we would have run through this conference. Maybe not undefeated, but we certainly would have held serve at home and won the big ones and the tournament. I also like this team, but maybe you aren't old enough to remember how good those other teams were and how they stepped up every single time.

We were a 9 seed with 4 CAA losses (7 losses overall). KenPom had us as the 48th team. MTSU is ranked as the 41st best team this year.

Claiming that team is was a final four caliber team through transitive properties is a stretch.

There is no way to accurately use KenPom rankings for an ODU team having a ranking of #48 back 7 years ago and say that it has any relevance what so ever in using it as evidence against a current team graded out as being #41. That is far more of a stretch than saying that ODU was a Final Four caliber team.

It isn't a transitive property to say that VCU and Butler made up half of that season's Final Four. It also isn't a transitive property to say that ODU defeated VCU 2 out of 3 games that season, or that it lost on a buzzer beater shot off a rebound to Butler. It isn't a transitive property to say that ODU played half the Final Four field that season a total of 4 times and held their own with a 2-2 record in them. The total point differential for the 4 games combined was a +8 for ODU.

Yes, some things would have had to have gone right along the way for ODU to have reached the Final Four that season, much like it had to go right for both Butler and VCU to reach it. However, it is clear by the games played and actual results that occurred that ODU was a Final Four caliber team that season. Personally I think that team would be the best team in CUSA if they were playing for ODU today, and it might not even be close. I've got a strong feeling that Mr. Bazemore could do a very nice job defensively on Potts, and probably Finney would have matched up well with King. If not then they could have put someone taller like Cooper or Carter on him.

Some additional facts -

1). At the time of the CAA Tournament, ODU was leading the nation in rebounding margin. They may also have ended the season as the nation's leader, (not sure). At any rate, it is highly unlikely that starters 6'-9" Hassell, 6'-9" Cooper, 6'-5" Finney, and 6'-5" Bazemore, along with 6'-9" Carter coming off the bench would have gotten beaten so badly on the boards like ODU did last night. In all likelihood it would have been the other way around.

2). Seniors James, Hassell, Carter, and Finney won a total of 97 games in their ODU careers, including beating VCU a total of 4 times in the city of Richmond - twice in the Siegel Center, and twice at the Richmond Coliseum in the CAA Tournament. Amazing how that used to be a rather routine occurrence having an ODU team win over a VCU team.

What Butler or VCU did was meaningless. Neither were top 15 teams in the country, but circumstances/luck/hot streak helped them get to the final 4. Just because Butler went on to beat Pittsburgh doesn't mean ODU would have.

Giles, don't lose track of the fact that I was only saying that ODU was a Final Four caliber team based upon the fact that VCU and Butler actually were Final Four teams and ODU had significant (and positive) history with those teams that season. In making those assessments, what Butler or VCU did is anything but meaningless to the conversation.

I made it pretty clear that ODU would have had to have had some things go their way during the games for them to have also made it to the Final Four such as Butler and VCU did. That would have included in the game against Pittsburgh had ODU not lost at the buzzer to Butler.

(02-02-2018 03:17 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 02:52 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 02:32 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 11:34 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 11:23 AM)EverRespect Wrote:  That team was Final 4 capable. Lost on a tip in at the buzzer to the national runner up after running through a 3-bid conference and blowing out an eventual Final 4 team in their backyard. MTSU is not on that level. First win was a 15/2 fluke and last year they got a good 1st round draw. I have no doubt we would have run through this conference. Maybe not undefeated, but we certainly would have held serve at home and won the big ones and the tournament. I also like this team, but maybe you aren't old enough to remember how good those other teams were and how they stepped up every single time.

We were a 9 seed with 4 CAA losses (7 losses overall). KenPom had us as the 48th team. MTSU is ranked as the 41st best team this year.

Claiming that team is was a final four caliber team through transitive properties is a stretch.

There is no way to accurately use KenPom rankings for an ODU team having a ranking of #48 back 7 years ago and say that it has any relevance what so ever in using it as evidence against a current team graded out as being #41. That is far more of a stretch than saying that ODU was a Final Four caliber team.

It isn't a transitive property to say that VCU and Butler made up half of that season's Final Four. It also isn't a transitive property to say that ODU defeated VCU 2 out of 3 games that season, or that it lost on a buzzer beater shot off a rebound to Butler. It isn't a transitive property to say that ODU played half the Final Four field that season a total of 4 times and held their own with a 2-2 record in them. The total point differential for the 4 games combined was a +8 for ODU.

Yes, some things would have had to have gone right along the way for ODU to have reached the Final Four that season, much like it had to go right for both Butler and VCU to reach it. However, it is clear by the games played and actual results that occurred that ODU was a Final Four caliber team that season. Personally I think that team would be the best team in CUSA if they were playing for ODU today, and it might not even be close. I've got a strong feeling that Mr. Bazemore could do a very nice job defensively on Potts, and probably Finney would have matched up well with King. If not then they could have put someone taller like Cooper or Carter on him.

Some additional facts -

1). At the time of the CAA Tournament, ODU was leading the nation in rebounding margin. They may also have ended the season as the nation's leader, (not sure). At any rate, it is highly unlikely that starters 6'-9" Hassell, 6'-9" Cooper, 6'-5" Finney, and 6'-5" Bazemore, along with 6'-9" Carter coming off the bench would have gotten beaten so badly on the boards like ODU did last night. In all likelihood it would have been the other way around.

2). Seniors James, Hassell, Carter, and Finney won a total of 97 games in their ODU careers, including beating VCU a total of 4 times in the city of Richmond - twice in the Siegel Center, and twice at the Richmond Coliseum in the CAA Tournament. Amazing how that used to be a rather routine occurrence having an ODU team win over a VCU team.

What Butler or VCU did was meaningless. Neither were top 15 teams in the country, but circumstances/luck/hot streak helped them get to the final 4. Just because Butler went on to beat Pittsburgh doesn't mean ODU would have.

Giles, don't lose track of the fact that I was only saying that ODU was a Final Four caliber team based upon the fact that VCU and Butler actually were Final Four teams and ODU had significant (and positive) history with those teams that season. In making those assessments, what Butler or VCU did is anything but meaningless to the conversation.

I made it pretty clear that ODU would have had to have had some things go their way during the games for them to have also made it to the Final Four such as Butler and VCU did. That would have included in the game against Pittsburgh had ODU not lost at the buzzer to Butler.

Just pointing out its strange to call a 40ish ranked team (and 9 seed) a final four caliber team. If thats the case, there are a ton of final four caliber team and the term becomes meaningless.

(02-02-2018 03:30 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 03:17 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 02:52 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 02:32 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 11:34 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  We were a 9 seed with 4 CAA losses (7 losses overall). KenPom had us as the 48th team. MTSU is ranked as the 41st best team this year.

Claiming that team is was a final four caliber team through transitive properties is a stretch.

There is no way to accurately use KenPom rankings for an ODU team having a ranking of #48 back 7 years ago and say that it has any relevance what so ever in using it as evidence against a current team graded out as being #41. That is far more of a stretch than saying that ODU was a Final Four caliber team.

It isn't a transitive property to say that VCU and Butler made up half of that season's Final Four. It also isn't a transitive property to say that ODU defeated VCU 2 out of 3 games that season, or that it lost on a buzzer beater shot off a rebound to Butler. It isn't a transitive property to say that ODU played half the Final Four field that season a total of 4 times and held their own with a 2-2 record in them. The total point differential for the 4 games combined was a +8 for ODU.

Yes, some things would have had to have gone right along the way for ODU to have reached the Final Four that season, much like it had to go right for both Butler and VCU to reach it. However, it is clear by the games played and actual results that occurred that ODU was a Final Four caliber team that season. Personally I think that team would be the best team in CUSA if they were playing for ODU today, and it might not even be close. I've got a strong feeling that Mr. Bazemore could do a very nice job defensively on Potts, and probably Finney would have matched up well with King. If not then they could have put someone taller like Cooper or Carter on him.

Some additional facts -

1). At the time of the CAA Tournament, ODU was leading the nation in rebounding margin. They may also have ended the season as the nation's leader, (not sure). At any rate, it is highly unlikely that starters 6'-9" Hassell, 6'-9" Cooper, 6'-5" Finney, and 6'-5" Bazemore, along with 6'-9" Carter coming off the bench would have gotten beaten so badly on the boards like ODU did last night. In all likelihood it would have been the other way around.

2). Seniors James, Hassell, Carter, and Finney won a total of 97 games in their ODU careers, including beating VCU a total of 4 times in the city of Richmond - twice in the Siegel Center, and twice at the Richmond Coliseum in the CAA Tournament. Amazing how that used to be a rather routine occurrence having an ODU team win over a VCU team.

What Butler or VCU did was meaningless. Neither were top 15 teams in the country, but circumstances/luck/hot streak helped them get to the final 4. Just because Butler went on to beat Pittsburgh doesn't mean ODU would have.

Giles, don't lose track of the fact that I was only saying that ODU was a Final Four caliber team based upon the fact that VCU and Butler actually were Final Four teams and ODU had significant (and positive) history with those teams that season. In making those assessments, what Butler or VCU did is anything but meaningless to the conversation.

I made it pretty clear that ODU would have had to have had some things go their way during the games for them to have also made it to the Final Four such as Butler and VCU did. That would have included in the game against Pittsburgh had ODU not lost at the buzzer to Butler.

Just pointing out its strange to call a 40ish ranked team (and 9 seed) a final four caliber team. If thats the case, there are a ton of final four caliber team and the term becomes meaningless.

Were VCU and Butler Final Four caliber teams? What were they seeded? Can't just always justify your position by strictly going by the numbers. And yes, in any NCAA Tournament there are numerous Final Four caliber teams if they get a break or two along the way.

I just can’t think of a time in jj’s tenure where we were able to win a big game. That continues to hold true this year.

(02-02-2018 06:00 PM)ODU2011 Wrote:  I just can’t think of a time in jj’s tenure where we were able to win a big game. That continues to hold true this year.

Only potential games that I can think of as being possibilities for being a 'big game win' would all be from the 2014-2015 season:

VCU at home when Baycote went off on them for about 30 points I believe.

Win over LSU at the Paradise Jam.

Win over Murray State at home to send ODU to the NIT Final Four.

Didn't bet on this game because i honestly don't know how good mtsu is either, they've played a tough schedule but like us, don't have many huge wins.

In our case, we have none. Dayton, who has a losing record, is our best and only top 100 win (they are 99).

Words cannot express how pathetic this schedule has been, how much of a joke our inflated record actually is nor how outmatched jones is against Kermit Davis EVERY SINGLE YEAR.

No significant wins this........no signature program defining wins in Jeff's entire career at odu nor at American.

It's been well over a decade since he's defeated a single noteworthy coach in a big game. Year 5, 3 quarterfinal cusa tourney exists, no regular season championships, no tourney championships and no NCAA tourney births (and no real end in sight to out extended fun of slightly better than mediocre basketball). All or this in a conference that has been MUCH WORSE, from a statistical standpoint, than the old CAA we used to play in which was one of the best mid major conferences in basketball, a conference that produced multiple final 4 teams, multiple first round upsets from multiple programs.........a conference we used to be a top dog in year after year.

Now we are middle tenn's b-tch and no one else in the conference is worth a damn.

Wku is better but they aren't an NCAA tourney team either.

Another 100+ rpi season, another Also ran season, no nit, no NCAA

WHY ARE YOU CLOWNS OK WITH THIS!??

We are capable of so much better. Look what stansbury has done for wku. Look what keatts did in 2-3 years at uncw. It should never take 5 years (now most likely 6 at a minimum) to "turn around" a program like ours.

Aim high for Christ sake.

(01-28-2018 10:36 PM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  Some of our posters just crack me up. Some fans want to make everything about themselves. They will get on board when this or that happens. When the team finally gets the win they think will make it OK to root for or get enthused about. Playing it safe, not wanting to get too invested in the team until they think it might pay off.

That is a bunch of weak sauce, bull****! Every season there are threads about how we can bring the excitement back to ODU Basketball. Get the students more involved, better halftime entertainment, better pep band, fire the coach, etc., etc. How about just be excited about getting loud for our Monarchs. Quit living in the past and wallowing in disappointments. Enjoy the games.

GO MONARCHS!!!

Yeah don't I feel silly.

Should have just enjoyed watching us sh.t the bed on an internet feed lol.

(02-02-2018 07:05 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(02-02-2018 06:00 PM)ODU2011 Wrote:  I just can’t think of a time in jj’s tenure where we were able to win a big game. That continues to hold true this year.

Only potential games that I can think of as being possibilities for being a 'big game win' would all be from the 2014-2015 season:

VCU at home when Baycote went off on them for about 30 points I believe.

Win over LSU at the Paradise Jam.

Win over Murray State at home to send ODU to the NIT Final Four.

Lsu was the best win jones has ever had. They were 22-11 and a 9 seed that lost in the first round. I think vcu is the only other win he has against a tourney team in 5 years.

We need to enjoy watching this team as much as possible now, because we sure won't be enjoying much in March.

hold up let me get a post in on this account too, since we're all the same people

I wonder what is better for Planters Bowl staying a thing: should we keep losing or finally win one? I feel like we have to finally take one for it to morph into an actual rivalry, but the losing streak kinda has a vaudeville feel to it. Right now its just me and the Planters/Rhombus crew making self-deprecating jokes every full moon

**Edit: And if anyone asks, the password is "swordfish"

(02-02-2018 09:03 PM)CameramanJ Wrote:  I wonder what is better for Planters Bowl staying a thing: should we keep losing or finally win one? I feel like we have to finally take one for it to morph into an actual rivalry, but the losing streak kinda has a vaudeville feel to it. Right now its just me and the Planters/Rhombus crew making self-deprecating jokes every full moon

**Edit: And if anyone asks, the password is "swordfish"

There were two students last night, one was dressed as cake (cupcake really) and an ice cream cone. When I first spotted them, I only saw the ice cream cone and thought it was a peanut. I was slightly disappointed it wasn't.

Middle is the new Memphis of CUSA. And I thought it was going to be us when we joined the league. So disappointing.