Rice was on the peripheral in the 90's. The city was ready to get behind them but they always came up just a little short in their WAC-16 years.

(01-18-2018 06:00 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 11:08 PM)exowlswimmer Wrote:  

(01-17-2018 09:06 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Rice has barely even played in any bowl since 1961. Houston has played top 25 teams or very close like Syracuse, Notre Dame, South Carolina, Washington State, etc...

Houston’s bowl record is even more impressive given the numerous times they were ineligible for the post season due to NCAA infractions. Rice should have followed Arkansas out of Conference Probation when we had the chance!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/s...f5d6cdf05a

I guess the Post has been distributing “fake news “ for years.

That's a broad stroke you're only applying to UH. Everyone that was in the SWC (yes save Rice and if you can believe Baylor) has been guilty. Looking at years while member of the SWC this is how it played out. Of course all schools save Rice have been on probation at some point either pre or post SWC. Also violations did occur at some of the schools but time was served outside the SWC.

http://www.footballgeography.com/college...probation/

Arkansas: 1 year, 1964
Houston: 4 years, 1977, 1989-1991
SMU: 15 years, 1964-1965, 1974-1976, 1981-1982, 1985-1990
TCU: 3 years, 1986-1988
Texas: 3 years, 1964, 1982, 1987
Texas A&M: 7 years, 1956, 1966, 1988-1990, 1994-1996
Texas Tech: 1 year, 1987

Basically the point is unless you're calling everyone out you have no business calling anyone out.

Sore subject Cougar? This discussion was on the Houston market and save Rice and my grad school alma mater UH, none of the other schools you want to indict are in Houston!

Rice will be p5 ready when ESPN thinks so...
Enough said

(01-19-2018 06:11 AM)exowlswimmer Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 06:00 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  That's a broad stroke you're only applying to UH. Everyone that was in the SWC (yes save Rice and if you can believe Baylor) has been guilty. Looking at years while member of the SWC this is how it played out. Of course all schools save Rice have been on probation at some point either pre or post SWC. Also violations did occur at some of the schools but time was served outside the SWC.

http://www.footballgeography.com/college...probation/

Arkansas: 1 year, 1964
Houston: 4 years, 1977, 1989-1991
SMU: 15 years, 1964-1965, 1974-1976, 1981-1982, 1985-1990
TCU: 3 years, 1986-1988
Texas: 3 years, 1964, 1982, 1987
Texas A&M: 7 years, 1956, 1966, 1988-1990, 1994-1996
Texas Tech: 1 year, 1987

Basically the point is unless you're calling everyone out you have no business calling anyone out.

Sore subject Cougar? This discussion was on the Houston market and save Rice and my grad school alma mater UH, none of the other schools you want to indict are in Houston!

Nope not sore, it is what it is. Our history (as does nearly every other FBS school) has its highs and lows.

Just pointing out it wasn't an isolated case at UH. It was a problem league wide and I would argue nationwide both then and now.

The real argument should be why some schools got away with the same stuff that some of us got charged with (cough...... Texas) and didn't get probation. In fact if I recall correctly Texas was the school that turned us in but thanks to an Alum on the board it both got the attention it deserved (UH) and what it should have deserved errrr ignored (UT)........

But as I said that's a whole other conversation not really relevant to this discussion.

I respect Rice just think major college football has passed them by. There is a window as some have mentioned but it's narrow and getting smaller so unless Rice steps up its game yesterday/right now time will have officially passed them by when it comes to football.

The same can be said for any non P5 school to be honest but the the chopping block starts at the bottom of the G5 and then at the bottom (in terms of value) in each league and moves up from there.

(01-18-2018 07:36 PM)PK_UToledo Wrote:  If Rice cares greatly about its athletic programs, it uses its resources to build them.

Not the university's resources. TCU and Stanford, for example, are not draining their university endowments to pay for football. They have alumni and other boosters who have donated huge sums of money to the athletic department or to football specifically. At some schools, donors approach the school on their own initiative offering to give a lot of money for a certain purpose. Other times the school has an athletic director (like the former Louisville AD) or a university president (like the current Boise State president) who devotes time and energy to persuade wealthy supporters to give a lot of money to athletics.

(12-10-2017 03:49 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-10-2017 09:47 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  I understand it is Rice that retains the name and the dormant charter of the old Southwest Conference. If the B12 has more defections in a few years, revive the Southwest Conference with Rice being a part of it.

Alot of people are predicting (especially on the CUSA board) that the next AAC deal with collapse to CUSA levels in the next deal. In that kind of AAC worst case scenario I could see Houston and SMU grabbing Rice and creating a Texas based regional G5 that revives the SWC name. The base would be something like Houston, Rice, SMU, UTSA, Texas St, LaTech, Memphis, and ArkySt. Then, depending on how large you want to be, you fill in the edges with teams like Tulsa, S Miss, Tulane, ULL, Memphis, Tulane, and maybe Cincy.

This would be a nice regional SWC:

South Division

Houston, Rice, Texas State, UTSA, Louisiana, S. Miss, Tulane

North Division

Tulsa, SMU, Memphis, Cincy, N. Texas, LA Tech, Ark State

Might as well join the Sun Belt.

(01-25-2018 12:05 PM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(12-10-2017 03:49 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(12-10-2017 09:47 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  I understand it is Rice that retains the name and the dormant charter of the old Southwest Conference. If the B12 has more defections in a few years, revive the Southwest Conference with Rice being a part of it.

Alot of people are predicting (especially on the CUSA board) that the next AAC deal with collapse to CUSA levels in the next deal. In that kind of AAC worst case scenario I could see Houston and SMU grabbing Rice and creating a Texas based regional G5 that revives the SWC name. The base would be something like Houston, Rice, SMU, UTSA, Texas St, LaTech, Memphis, and ArkySt. Then, depending on how large you want to be, you fill in the edges with teams like Tulsa, S Miss, Tulane, ULL, Memphis, Tulane, and maybe Cincy.

This would be a nice regional SWC:

South Division

Houston, Rice, Texas State, UTSA, Louisiana, S. Miss, Tulane

North Division

Tulsa, SMU, Memphis, Cincy, N. Texas, LA Tech, Ark State

Why not East/West?

East: Ark State, Cincy, LA Tech, Memphis, Tulane, ULL, USM
West: Houston, North Texas, Rice, SMU, Texas State, Tulsa, UTSA

Maybe trade Cincy for UAB? Cincinnati is more valuable, but a bit outside the intended region.

Might
As
Well
Join
The
Sun
Belt

(01-25-2018 04:24 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Might
As
Well
Join
The
Sun
Belt

Why would you say that?

AAC - 6 teams - Houston, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU. Memphis, Cincy
CUSA - 5 teams - Rice, LA Tech, N. Texas, UTSA, S. Miss
SBC - 3 teams - Louisiana, Ark State, Texas State

Because that would be a significant step back.

Not to get all high and mighty or anything but you don't see Pac-12 members clamoring to join the MWC.

(01-19-2018 02:49 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(01-19-2018 06:11 AM)exowlswimmer Wrote:  

(01-18-2018 06:00 PM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  That's a broad stroke you're only applying to UH. Everyone that was in the SWC (yes save Rice and if you can believe Baylor) has been guilty. Looking at years while member of the SWC this is how it played out. Of course all schools save Rice have been on probation at some point either pre or post SWC. Also violations did occur at some of the schools but time was served outside the SWC.

http://www.footballgeography.com/college...probation/

Arkansas: 1 year, 1964
Houston: 4 years, 1977, 1989-1991
SMU: 15 years, 1964-1965, 1974-1976, 1981-1982, 1985-1990
TCU: 3 years, 1986-1988
Texas: 3 years, 1964, 1982, 1987
Texas A&M: 7 years, 1956, 1966, 1988-1990, 1994-1996
Texas Tech: 1 year, 1987

Basically the point is unless you're calling everyone out you have no business calling anyone out.

Sore subject Cougar? This discussion was on the Houston market and save Rice and my grad school alma mater UH, none of the other schools you want to indict are in Houston!

Nope not sore, it is what it is. Our history (as does nearly every other FBS school) has its highs and lows.

Just pointing out it wasn't an isolated case at UH. It was a problem league wide and I would argue nationwide both then and now.

The real argument should be why some schools got away with the same stuff that some of us got charged with (cough...... Texas) and didn't get probation. In fact if I recall correctly Texas was the school that turned us in but thanks to an Alum on the board it both got the attention it deserved (UH) and what it should have deserved errrr ignored (UT)........

But as I said that's a whole other conversation not really relevant to this discussion.

I respect Rice just think major college football has passed them by. There is a window as some have mentioned but it's narrow and getting smaller so unless Rice steps up its game yesterday/right now time will have officially passed them by when it comes to football.

The same can be said for any non P5 school to be honest but the the chopping block starts at the bottom of the G5 and then at the bottom (in terms of value) in each league and moves up from there.

The facts are that the stuff SMU, TCU, A&M and UH did was outrageous. UT's was very trivial. The normal claim by those who get on probation is that Enormous State University (fill in the name) didn't get looked at closely. What you did was just tell a lie. The things they got charged with were very different.

(01-25-2018 05:54 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Because that would be a significant step back.

Not to get all high and mighty or anything but you don't see Pac-12 members clamoring to join the MWC.

Understood. But, the AAC is not a P5 conference any more than the MWC or other G5 conference are. I don't see a new SWC conference being formed in the immediate future, but when TV contracts expire and the money is reduced, a move to a more regional conference may take place. If it does, this is a strong realignment. It has half of the AAC in it. The 2 Florida schools are missing who happen to have had a great year this year. But, these come and go along with their coaches who are poached by the P5. Who's to say a member of this new SWC couldn't step up and do what UCF did this year? What kind of rivalry does UH have with ECU or Navy or USF/UCF? Do they travel well to away games? Do UH fans travel well to a game in Greenville, North Carolina? The MWC covers the far west. The MAC covers the mid-west. The other 3 G5 conferences, AAC, CUSA and SBC are all over the country. CUSA is from El Paso to Miami to Huntington, WV. The SBC is from San Marcos to Boone, NC. The AAC is from Houston to Cincy to Annapolis to Tampa. G5 schools don't have $90M + athletic budgets. Travel is ridiculous, especially for spring sports, attendance is down because teams don't travel well, and revenue is down as a result. We all want to be a member of a P5 conference. If the invites aren't there, when TV contracts expire, finances may really get ugly. Just think about an effective realignment when they do.

(01-25-2018 05:24 PM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(01-25-2018 04:24 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Might
As
Well
Join
The
Sun
Belt

Why would you say that?

AAC - 6 teams - Houston, Tulane, Tulsa, SMU. Memphis, Cincy
CUSA - 5 teams - Rice, LA Tech, N. Texas, UTSA, S. Miss
SBC - 3 teams - Louisiana, Ark State, Texas State

Call it the SWC and I'd be a very happy camper. I'd actually prefer something like this to P5, given the current semi-pro condition of the big-money college sports (FB & BB).

(01-25-2018 06:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  The facts are that the stuff SMU, TCU, A&M and UH did was outrageous. UT's was very trivial. The normal claim by those who get on probation is that Enormous State University (fill in the name) didn't get looked at closely. What you did was just tell a lie. The things they got charged with were very different.

Wow if anyone is sore it seems like you are..... I own our transgressions but to believe that UT was innocent in an environment that created a culture that required people to cheat to compete is being a bit naive.

When there is systematic cheating league wide in a conference I would say equal scrutiny is warranted.

In fact the allegations against UT look very familiar (and in the same time frame) as UH..........

https://books.google.com/books?id=ddYDAA...ns&f=false

It's water under the bridge for me I was just pointing out that UH was far from the only one who crossed a line or two. The Rice poster seemed to either want to or inadvertently implied that this was only a UH problem to pump up Rice's value.

(01-26-2018 10:50 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(01-25-2018 06:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  The facts are that the stuff SMU, TCU, A&M and UH did was outrageous. UT's was very trivial. The normal claim by those who get on probation is that Enormous State University (fill in the name) didn't get looked at closely. What you did was just tell a lie. The things they got charged with were very different.

Wow if anyone is sore it seems like you are..... I own our transgressions but to believe that UT was innocent in an environment that created a culture that required people to cheat to compete is being a bit naive.

When there is systematic cheating league wide in a conference I would say equal scrutiny is warranted.

In fact the allegations against UT look very familiar (and in the same time frame) as UH..........

https://books.google.com/books?id=ddYDAA...ns&f=false

It's water under the bridge for me I was just pointing out that UH was far from the only one who crossed a line or two. The Rice poster seemed to either want to or inadvertently implied that this was only a UH problem to pump up Rice's value.

The poster claimed UT was charged with the same things. That was a flat out lie. You can claim UT did the same things and didn't get caught. That can't be proven or unproven. But to claim UT got charged with the same things is just dishonest and I'm not going to let him get away with spreading that lie unchallenged.

We all know what SMU did. A&M did the same things but didn't keep doing them after getting caught (at least not with the same players). TCU got caught paying a huge amount of money for players and changed their ways. I hadn't really remembered UH being on the same scale of cheating, but the article posted here said they were put on probation for paying dozens of players (maybe they just didn't pay as much as TCU, SMU and A&M).

Everybody got on probation during that era but Arkansas and Rice, but the things UT got charged with were relatively minor and limited in scale. Baylor and Tech didn't make huge headlines with their problems either.

(01-26-2018 11:12 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-26-2018 10:50 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(01-25-2018 06:45 PM)bullet Wrote:  The facts are that the stuff SMU, TCU, A&M and UH did was outrageous. UT's was very trivial. The normal claim by those who get on probation is that Enormous State University (fill in the name) didn't get looked at closely. What you did was just tell a lie. The things they got charged with were very different.

Wow if anyone is sore it seems like you are..... I own our transgressions but to believe that UT was innocent in an environment that created a culture that required people to cheat to compete is being a bit naive.

When there is systematic cheating league wide in a conference I would say equal scrutiny is warranted.

In fact the allegations against UT look very familiar (and in the same time frame) as UH..........

https://books.google.com/books?id=ddYDAA...ns&f=false

It's water under the bridge for me I was just pointing out that UH was far from the only one who crossed a line or two. The Rice poster seemed to either want to or inadvertently implied that this was only a UH problem to pump up Rice's value.

The poster claimed UT was charged with the same things. That was a flat out lie. You can claim UT did the same things and didn't get caught. That can't be proven or unproven. But to claim UT got charged with the same things is just dishonest and I'm not going to let him get away with spreading that lie unchallenged.

We all know what SMU did. A&M did the same things but didn't keep doing them after getting caught (at least not with the same players). TCU got caught paying a huge amount of money for players and changed their ways. I hadn't really remembered UH being on the same scale of cheating, but the article posted here said they were put on probation for paying dozens of players (maybe they just didn't pay as much as TCU, SMU and A&M).

Everybody got on probation during that era but Arkansas and Rice, but the things UT got charged with were relatively minor and limited in scale. Baylor and Tech didn't make huge headlines with their problems either.

I can re-dig up the findings on UH for you to compare but click on the link I provided detailing the allegations in 1987 brought against UT concerning the years 1980-1986.

We can debate who paid off more players or who threw around more cash but its academic at that point. Texas was being accused (in detail) of the same thing everyone else was guilty of (yes we were guilty not going to dent it) but didn't get the same level of punishment.

Coincidence? Vindication? Who really knows but it just looks shady.

Oh well on to other debates.....

Oh why not just spell it out so all the cards are the table for comparison......

https://web3.ncaa.org/lsdbi/search/miCas...?id=102093

https://books.google.com/books?id=ddYDAA...ns&f=false

UH: "On numerous occasions during the period 1978 to 1984, members of the university's football coaching staff provided student-athletes with cash payments ranging from $5 to $500."

UT: "On 15 different occasions, UT student-athletes received loans and gifts of cash totaling $670"

UH: "A representative of the university's athletics interests lent his automobile to a student-athlete in order for the young man to travel round-trip between Houston and his home town."

UT: "The coaching staff, including McWilliams, loaned athletes automobiles for lengths of time ranging from 20 minutes to a weekend."

UH: "football coaching staff and representatives of the university's athletics interests violated fundamental NCAA restrictions regarding the recruitment of prospective student-athletes, including rules on the number of recruiting contacts"

UT: " Various coaches made impermissible off-campus contacts with recruits"

UH: " a representative of the institution's athletics interests purchased a one-way airline ticket"

UT: "One-way transportation by private plane was provided to an athlete"

I can go on and on and into more detail but I think the point is proven. Everyone (save Rice and hard to believe Baylor) was guilty.

Yup, looks like UT got the “ Clinton “ treatment

(01-26-2018 09:43 AM)HoustonCajun Wrote:  

(01-25-2018 05:54 PM)_C2_ Wrote:  Because that would be a significant step back.

Not to get all high and mighty or anything but you don't see Pac-12 members clamoring to join the MWC.

Understood. But, the AAC is not a P5 conference any more than the MWC or other G5 conference are. I don't see a new SWC conference being formed in the immediate future, but when TV contracts expire and the money is reduced, a move to a more regional conference may take place. If it does, this is a strong realignment. It has half of the AAC in it. The 2 Florida schools are missing who happen to have had a great year this year. But, these come and go along with their coaches who are poached by the P5. Who's to say a member of this new SWC couldn't step up and do what UCF did this year? What kind of rivalry does UH have with ECU or Navy or USF/UCF? Do they travel well to away games? Do UH fans travel well to a game in Greenville, North Carolina? The MWC covers the far west. The MAC covers the mid-west. The other 3 G5 conferences, AAC, CUSA and SBC are all over the country. CUSA is from El Paso to Miami to Huntington, WV. The SBC is from San Marcos to Boone, NC. The AAC is from Houston to Cincy to Annapolis to Tampa. G5 schools don't have $90M + athletic budgets. Travel is ridiculous, especially for spring sports, attendance is down because teams don't travel well, and revenue is down as a result. We all want to be a member of a P5 conference. If the invites aren't there, when TV contracts expire, finances may really get ugly. Just think about an effective realignment when they do.

Half of those AAC teams are teams UH doesn't or barely wants to associate with. Houston sees itself more with Cincinnati, Memphis, Temple and UCF than Tulsa, Tulane and even SMU.

Which is why that "it has half the AAC" argument doesn't hold much water. A regional conference may work better but not to the point UH is lowering itself to play with schools not on its level.