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We All Knew It Was Coming
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panama Offline
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Post: #121
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-24-2017 04:05 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 02:48 PM)asuwon Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 01:23 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  How do people shut out from State athletics benefit for their almost 1 grand per student per year subsidy of millions of dollars in football coaching salaries, or from tens of millions in football scholarships ,from which they are effectively excluded?

How do people benefit from having the military use taxpayer money to pay for gender reassignment surgeries for members of our military?

In the US, we are ALL often forced to pay for things which do not benefit us.

That's the way our country works.

Get used to it, or get out.

There's a difference between size and scope here. First of all, healthcare is considered part of the deal for our Veterans. And a military is considered essential spending. Our military veterans EARNED that payment through their contributions to our defense, which is shared by us all. We all share in that benefit.

FBS football is a luxury and its benefits don't ever trickle down to the international students, LGBT kids, and to the overwhelming majority of non-Christians. You'd be wise to remember that. There's absolutely no reason why someone should be forced to pay up to 12% extra for a completely superfluous activity in order to attend their public state university. The only way you'll keep that subsidy long term is to respect those who are paying it and make it relevant to the people paying it. There is no benefit to FBS football for many of your students. They aren't being hired as coaches and they're locked out of the scholarships too. Why fund it at all, much less at 4 grand per undergraduate degree.

I think your Athletic Department gets it better than most in the conference.

The only students that benefit from FBS football are the football players themselves. I'm a straight Christian and FBS football doesn't benefit me at all. It's entertainment. Do I gain from it? No. Do I whine about it. No.

I guess I should be outraged though right?
Talk to your Admissions Dept and President about how it benefits the university as a marketing tool and as a byproduct increases the value of your degree.

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12-25-2017 12:16 PM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #122
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-24-2017 11:04 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 10:05 AM)fjblair Wrote:  
(12-22-2017 12:52 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  
(12-22-2017 12:10 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  LOL at all the hate for Liberty. It's a football opponent, one that's at least decent.

I find it comical too. The hate isn't because of the talent of their football team or athletics, but because the school has a specific belief and moral standard that they stand by.

Well there is also the academic thing, you know, the diploma mill and admissions issues.

There as much of a diploma mill as App State is.
Lol. It's spelled "they're".

App is top 3 academics in the belt behind GaSt and UTA. I think you're full of crap.

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(This post was last modified: 12-25-2017 01:22 PM by Yosef Himself.)
12-25-2017 01:20 PM
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panama Offline
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Post: #123
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-25-2017 01:20 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 11:04 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 10:05 AM)fjblair Wrote:  
(12-22-2017 12:52 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  
(12-22-2017 12:10 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  LOL at all the hate for Liberty. It's a football opponent, one that's at least decent.

I find it comical too. The hate isn't because of the talent of their football team or athletics, but because the school has a specific belief and moral standard that they stand by.

Well there is also the academic thing, you know, the diploma mill and admissions issues.

There as much of a diploma mill as App State is.
Lol. It's spelled "they're".

App is top 3 academics in the belt behind GaSt and UTA. I think you're full of crap.

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And Liberty is Devry

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12-25-2017 01:37 PM
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TrueBlueDrew Offline
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Post: #124
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-25-2017 01:20 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 11:04 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 10:05 AM)fjblair Wrote:  
(12-22-2017 12:52 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  
(12-22-2017 12:10 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  LOL at all the hate for Liberty. It's a football opponent, one that's at least decent.

I find it comical too. The hate isn't because of the talent of their football team or athletics, but because the school has a specific belief and moral standard that they stand by.

Well there is also the academic thing, you know, the diploma mill and admissions issues.

There as much of a diploma mill as App State is.
Lol. It's spelled "they're".

App is top 4 academics in the belt behind GaSt, GS, and UTA. I think you're full of crap.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using CSNbbs mobile app

FIFY 07-coffee3

http://universitybenchmarks.com/Sun_Belt...kings.html
12-25-2017 02:39 PM
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HappyAppy Offline
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Post: #125
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-25-2017 02:39 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  
(12-25-2017 01:20 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 11:04 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 10:05 AM)fjblair Wrote:  
(12-22-2017 12:52 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  I find it comical too. The hate isn't because of the talent of their football team or athletics, but because the school has a specific belief and moral standard that they stand by.

Well there is also the academic thing, you know, the diploma mill and admissions issues.

There as much of a diploma mill as App State is.
Lol. It's spelled "they're".

App is top 4 academics in the belt behind GaSt, GS, and UTA. I think you're full of crap.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using CSNbbs mobile app

FIFY 07-coffee3

http://universitybenchmarks.com/Sun_Belt...kings.html

LOL
12-25-2017 03:47 PM
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Yosef Himself Offline
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Post: #126
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
dammit
12-25-2017 04:06 PM
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AppfanInCAAland Offline
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Post: #127
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
I've got nothing to add here except to congratulate Tom. In numerous extended posts relating to the LGBTQ community, Xe seems to have avoided the usual pitiful of incorrectly identifying the word "gay" as a proper noun through improper capitalization. Baby steps.
(This post was last modified: 12-25-2017 04:10 PM by AppfanInCAAland.)
12-25-2017 04:09 PM
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CardinalBlackTrojan Offline
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Post: #128
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-25-2017 01:20 PM)Yosef Himself Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 11:04 AM)CardinalBlackTrojan Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 10:05 AM)fjblair Wrote:  
(12-22-2017 12:52 PM)CoachWillRob Wrote:  
(12-22-2017 12:10 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  LOL at all the hate for Liberty. It's a football opponent, one that's at least decent.

I find it comical too. The hate isn't because of the talent of their football team or athletics, but because the school has a specific belief and moral standard that they stand by.

Well there is also the academic thing, you know, the diploma mill and admissions issues.

There as much of a diploma mill as App State is.
Lol. It's spelled "they're".

App is top 3 academics in the belt behind GaSt and UTA. I think you're full of crap.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using CSNbbs mobile app

I was wondering when an App fan was going to reply... took a while.

That's exactly my point. App State isn't a diploma mill. Liberty isn't a diploma mill. To call any legit university a diploma mill just shows someone has a personal issue about said university they can't get over.
12-25-2017 07:58 PM
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ark30inf Offline
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Post: #129
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-24-2017 04:05 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 02:48 PM)asuwon Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 01:23 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  How do people shut out from State athletics benefit for their almost 1 grand per student per year subsidy of millions of dollars in football coaching salaries, or from tens of millions in football scholarships ,from which they are effectively excluded?

How do people benefit from having the military use taxpayer money to pay for gender reassignment surgeries for members of our military?

In the US, we are ALL often forced to pay for things which do not benefit us.

That's the way our country works.

Get used to it, or get out.

There's a difference between size and scope here. First of all, healthcare is considered part of the deal for our Veterans. And a military is considered essential spending. Our military veterans EARNED that payment through their contributions to our defense, which is shared by us all. We all share in that benefit.

FBS football is a luxury and its benefits don't ever trickle down to the international students, LGBT kids, and to the overwhelming majority of non-Christians. You'd be wise to remember that. There's absolutely no reason why someone should be forced to pay up to 12% extra for a completely superfluous activity in order to attend their public state university. The only way you'll keep that subsidy long term is to respect those who are paying it and make it relevant to the people paying it. There is no benefit to FBS football for many of your students. They aren't being hired as coaches and they're locked out of the scholarships too. Why fund it at all, much less at 4 grand per undergraduate degree.

I think your Athletic Department gets it better than most in the conference.

The only students that benefit from FBS football are the football players themselves. I'm a straight Christian and FBS football doesn't benefit me at all. It's entertainment. Do I gain from it? No. Do I whine about it. No.

I guess I should be outraged though right?

Incorrect.

FBS Football is a marketing godsend for universities. Arkansas State gets immense benefits in-state being mentioned each night on state sports broadcasts...SAU, for example, does not get that benefit and the difference shows. Many in-state A-State students would not have even looked into A-State without that name recognition.

FBS gameday has a huge economic benefit to the City of Jonesboro. Hotels, shopping, restaurants, fuel purchases, etc. A lot of those are the main providers of student jobs during their college years.

At Arkansas State the indoor practice facility is used by any student organization that needs a large indoor area for a variety of purposes. Marching band, intramurals, student organizations, clubs, etc. This facility would not exist without FBS football.

FBS football provides lots of opportunities for local businesses to advertise through the university. This creates a relationship between local businesses that advertise and the university that would not otherwise exist. For example the sports advertising relationship between Centennial Bank and A-State led directly to Centennial Bank funding the construction of the Campus Welcome Center. Something that probably would not have happened without the the relationship already established through sports sponsorship.

I have 3 vehicles with Arkansas State tags. The revenue from those plates goes directly to A-State scholarships. I have those plates to support the football program. I most likely would not have them if not for the football program, and I suspect that applies to others.

There are a host of benefits associated with having an FBS football program. There are less than 150 of them in the entire nation and there are many universities and cities that would die to have one.
12-25-2017 08:43 PM
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OsageJ Offline
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Post: #130
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
It's not just Jonesboro but other places in NEA. Paragould gets hotel rooms used. So does Truman. My daughter's boyfriend has an apartment in Truman he uses for fans on game weekend.
12-26-2017 08:33 AM
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Bobcat2013 Offline
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Post: #131
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-25-2017 08:43 PM)ark30inf Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 04:05 PM)Bobcat2013 Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 03:46 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 02:48 PM)asuwon Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 01:23 AM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote:  How do people shut out from State athletics benefit for their almost 1 grand per student per year subsidy of millions of dollars in football coaching salaries, or from tens of millions in football scholarships ,from which they are effectively excluded?

How do people benefit from having the military use taxpayer money to pay for gender reassignment surgeries for members of our military?

In the US, we are ALL often forced to pay for things which do not benefit us.

That's the way our country works.

Get used to it, or get out.

There's a difference between size and scope here. First of all, healthcare is considered part of the deal for our Veterans. And a military is considered essential spending. Our military veterans EARNED that payment through their contributions to our defense, which is shared by us all. We all share in that benefit.

FBS football is a luxury and its benefits don't ever trickle down to the international students, LGBT kids, and to the overwhelming majority of non-Christians. You'd be wise to remember that. There's absolutely no reason why someone should be forced to pay up to 12% extra for a completely superfluous activity in order to attend their public state university. The only way you'll keep that subsidy long term is to respect those who are paying it and make it relevant to the people paying it. There is no benefit to FBS football for many of your students. They aren't being hired as coaches and they're locked out of the scholarships too. Why fund it at all, much less at 4 grand per undergraduate degree.

I think your Athletic Department gets it better than most in the conference.

The only students that benefit from FBS football are the football players themselves. I'm a straight Christian and FBS football doesn't benefit me at all. It's entertainment. Do I gain from it? No. Do I whine about it. No.

I guess I should be outraged though right?

Incorrect.

FBS Football is a marketing godsend for universities. Arkansas State gets immense benefits in-state being mentioned each night on state sports broadcasts...SAU, for example, does not get that benefit and the difference shows. Many in-state A-State students would not have even looked into A-State without that name recognition.

FBS gameday has a huge economic benefit to the City of Jonesboro. Hotels, shopping, restaurants, fuel purchases, etc. A lot of those are the main providers of student jobs during their college years.

At Arkansas State the indoor practice facility is used by any student organization that needs a large indoor area for a variety of purposes. Marching band, intramurals, student organizations, clubs, etc. This facility would not exist without FBS football.

FBS football provides lots of opportunities for local businesses to advertise through the university. This creates a relationship between local businesses that advertise and the university that would not otherwise exist. For example the sports advertising relationship between Centennial Bank and A-State led directly to Centennial Bank funding the construction of the Campus Welcome Center. Something that probably would not have happened without the the relationship already established through sports sponsorship.

I have 3 vehicles with Arkansas State tags. The revenue from those plates goes directly to A-State scholarships. I have those plates to support the football program. I most likely would not have them if not for the football program, and I suspect that applies to others.

There are a host of benefits associated with having an FBS football program. There are less than 150 of them in the entire nation and there are many universities and cities that would die to have one.

Look I'm not saying it doesn't benefit the University. Panamas reply at least hit the broad point of increasing diploma value through visibility. None of your points even touched how it benefits me personally. That's fine. It's not supposed to. It's provides me entertainment and a connection to my school after graduating, and like Panama said it might increase the value of my diploma.

My main point was that straight, gay, Christian, Muslim, etc. The impact is the same on all students and alumni except for the football players themselves.
12-26-2017 10:09 AM
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Pounce FTW Offline
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Post: #132
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
1. I wish we’d see a rigorous study performed that would attempt to quantify the impact of FBS football on our schools. It’s really easy right now for those on either side of the value argument to hand wave their points. Personally, I think it’s worth the investment, but I’m also a pretty big football fan.

2. Depending on what you’re looking for in a school, I think App has a solid argument to say they have the strongest academics in the Belt. Their consistently high regional USNWR ranking is admirable.

3. It’s hard to take politics and whatnot out of any Liberty discussion because the school itself is so political. It’s difficult to have an organization with such a focused social mission and then expect others to forget about all that when it comes time to field a football team. Besides, when veterans or doctors or firefighters or whoever are recognized at a sporting event, no one’s like, “Boo! I’m just here for football!” It’s just that Liberty’s issues are more uncomfortable to talk about.
12-26-2017 10:13 AM
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SBEagle Offline
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Post: #133
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-24-2017 10:28 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 09:57 PM)Fanof49ASU Wrote:  I see my definition of elective is somewhat different than yours. Back surgery can become a necessary surgery. Gender reassignment is elective, or chosen....which is unnecessary.

The elective surgeries that I’m aware of are mostly cosmetic, and aren’t necessary to maintain a normal, healthy lifestyle.

Depends on the country. In some countries, any surgery that is not medically required can be considered "elective"

That's the danger of such a law. Health insurers can in theory pick and choose which surgeries are "elective" and which are not. In the case of medicare, you could essentially put a person's livelihood in the hands of whether or not the government thinks their surgery is "necessary"

I mean, I guess we could hope that insurance companies would do the right thing, but does anyone honestly want their health put into the hands of someone else?
I agree. I certainly don't want my health care put into the hands of anyone else, especially the federal govt.

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12-26-2017 08:38 PM
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eaglewraith Offline
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Post: #134
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-26-2017 08:38 PM)SBEagle Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 10:28 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 09:57 PM)Fanof49ASU Wrote:  I see my definition of elective is somewhat different than yours. Back surgery can become a necessary surgery. Gender reassignment is elective, or chosen....which is unnecessary.

The elective surgeries that I’m aware of are mostly cosmetic, and aren’t necessary to maintain a normal, healthy lifestyle.

Depends on the country. In some countries, any surgery that is not medically required can be considered "elective"

That's the danger of such a law. Health insurers can in theory pick and choose which surgeries are "elective" and which are not. In the case of medicare, you could essentially put a person's livelihood in the hands of whether or not the government thinks their surgery is "necessary"

I mean, I guess we could hope that insurance companies would do the right thing, but does anyone honestly want their health put into the hands of someone else?
I agree. I certainly don't want my health care put into the hands of anyone else, especially the federal govt.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

The inverse of that is to trust someone that values their profit margin over your health/quality of life.

Either way is no more ideal than the other.

What I'd prefer is a massive member pool that could hold higher negotiation power for the price of services and medication so that people wouldn't get bent over a barrel. You won't get that with a privately run insurance company.
12-27-2017 01:57 PM
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Golota Offline
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Post: #135
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/12/liber...schedules/

Like I stated before being announced we would play Kentucky, LSU, UGA, I also mentioned we would play home and home with Liberty.
12-28-2017 10:15 PM
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Ewglenn Offline
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Post: #136
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-28-2017 10:15 PM)Golota Wrote:  http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/12/liber...schedules/

Like I stated before being announced we would play Kentucky, LSU, UGA, I also mentioned we would play home and home with Liberty.

So are you okay with it or against it? Most people have strong opinions about LU lol.
12-28-2017 10:25 PM
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InjunJohn86 Offline
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Post: #137
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-28-2017 10:25 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(12-28-2017 10:15 PM)Golota Wrote:  http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/12/liber...schedules/

Like I stated before being announced we would play Kentucky, LSU, UGA, I also mentioned we would play home and home with Liberty.

So are you okay with it or against it? Most people have strong opinions about LU lol.

I have zero issue with it. They are a Christian university. Oh well. Supposedly so is Baylor, TCU, SMU and Notre Dame. Most folks don't like them because of that. However, this is football and they are moving up and will be a FBS opponent. We get a home and home with a beatable opponent and probably get some good cash out of it. If their students want to go to a place that limits what video games they can play, how long they can hug a member of the opposite sex and movies they can watch, good for them. Doesn't have an impact on my life and shouldn't on anyone else. Just play football.
12-28-2017 10:58 PM
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Golota Offline
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Post: #138
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-28-2017 10:25 PM)Ewglenn Wrote:  
(12-28-2017 10:15 PM)Golota Wrote:  http://www.fbschedules.com/2017/12/liber...schedules/

Like I stated before being announced we would play Kentucky, LSU, UGA, I also mentioned we would play home and home with Liberty.

So are you okay with it or against it? Most people have strong opinions about LU lol.

I am good with it. They’re paying schools money for home and homes. And it’s winnable.
12-28-2017 11:09 PM
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trueeagle98 Offline
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Post: #139
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-27-2017 01:57 PM)eaglewraith Wrote:  
(12-26-2017 08:38 PM)SBEagle Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 10:28 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  
(12-24-2017 09:57 PM)Fanof49ASU Wrote:  I see my definition of elective is somewhat different than yours. Back surgery can become a necessary surgery. Gender reassignment is elective, or chosen....which is unnecessary.

The elective surgeries that I’m aware of are mostly cosmetic, and aren’t necessary to maintain a normal, healthy lifestyle.

Depends on the country. In some countries, any surgery that is not medically required can be considered "elective"

That's the danger of such a law. Health insurers can in theory pick and choose which surgeries are "elective" and which are not. In the case of medicare, you could essentially put a person's livelihood in the hands of whether or not the government thinks their surgery is "necessary"

I mean, I guess we could hope that insurance companies would do the right thing, but does anyone honestly want their health put into the hands of someone else?
I agree. I certainly don't want my health care put into the hands of anyone else, especially the federal govt.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

The inverse of that is to trust someone that values their profit margin over your health/quality of life.

Either way is no more ideal than the other.

What I'd prefer is a massive member pool that could hold higher negotiation power for the price of services and medication so that people wouldn't get bent over a barrel. You won't get that with a privately run insurance company.

Yes you can. You just have to allow sales over state lines. You would also have to eliminate the exemption insurers get that allow them to monopolize hospitals. There are also other more affordable methods that allow you to pay a doctor monthly (like retaining a lawyer)for basic services and discounted drugs. Also, making costs more transparent and billing more streamlined and understandable would greatly help people see which clinics/hospitals cost the least (there can be a great difference in cost for services in just a city). Also, it needs to be clear what insurance will pay, what they won't pay for, and how much the patient has to cover. Working at a hospital and using their facilities myself it is a very confusing and expensive process. The hospitals lose a lot of money of lab testing and other services and hope they can make up the costs in other areas.

There are several ways to help reduce costs and make healthcare more available, but people also need to prioritize their spending. Don't tell me you can't afford insurance and then go buy rims for your car or a new cellphone, etc... Some can't and thats fine, but they also shouldn't rely on ER care. Go to smaller clinics and save everyone money.
12-29-2017 09:12 AM
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THUNDERStruck73 Offline
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Post: #140
RE: We All Knew It Was Coming
(12-22-2017 12:21 PM)TrueBlueDrew Wrote:  
(12-22-2017 12:10 PM)TroyFootball05 Wrote:  LOL at all the hate for Liberty. It's a football opponent, one that's at least decent.

They went 5-7 with an FCS schedule this year

You should see the massive delusion of their fanbase over on the "Independent" board. Some say that they'll be in the AAC within a few years and then be able to move to a P5 conference. Pure comedy gold.
12-29-2017 09:52 AM
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