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RE: Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
(12-09-2017 11:53 AM)Sellular1 Wrote: (12-09-2017 11:29 AM)GE and MTS Wrote: (12-05-2017 10:24 AM)Once a Knight... Wrote: To me the most obvious adds for the Big 12 are clear, not in any particular order but expanding to 14 teams (puts them on par with other eastern power conferences).
To get WVU off an island Cincinnati is a must, household name, very competitive during short Big East tenure, former "Power conference" school as member of Big East, not mention investing heavily in athletics and excellent basketball in addition to usually strong football.
UCF AND USF. No brainer... huge markets, recruiting, travel partners that are already HUGE rivals (did you see the War on I-4 TV ratings this yr??), two top ten universities in enrollment. Also gets West Virginia back connected for their Florida recruiting ties.
Lastly to help bridge the now 4 eastern teams you would want a bridge team somewhere in the middle. Memphis fits this spot PERFECTLY!! No pro sports, Power Conference sized stadium that keeps getting upgraded. Historically good basketball and now football continues playing at a high level across multiple coaches. Traditional rival with Cincy from Metro/C-USA/AAC, also on the verge of a rivalry with UCF (UCF at Memphis next yr should be telling). The perfect bridge from east to west.
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I agree with almost all of this. I think the Big 12's biggest problems are that West Virginia is on an island and that the conference has the smallest footprint (in a bad way).
Cincinnati makes the best travel partner for WVU. I think Ohio would be interesting if only for their name. If Cincinnati was "Ohio University" instead, they'd be a much sexier choice (not that they aren't appealing already) instead of a dreaded stigma of a city school.
Adding USF and UCF takes pressure off the state of Texas for providing the conference with so many recruits. They have more students than just about any other available schools and would be a long-term play to expand the Big 12 brand.
The last spot is tricky. I don't think Memphis is a candidate. UConn or Temple would add another island and they aren't particularly strong enough to add as a pair either. BYU all sports would be hard to approval and would create another island but they are the best brand available. Adding them football-only would be good but they have good non-football sports. The Big 12 members may worry about losing ground in Texas by adding so many non-Texas schools so they could look to add Houston or Rice. Colorado State is interesting but a long-term play. Maybe how you split the divisions determines who gets the last spot.
Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Texas, TCU, Baylor, Texas Tech, BYU/Houston/Rice
Iowa State, Kansas, Kansas State, West Virginia, USF, UCF, Cincinnati
That looks cleaner than adding an eastern school and pushing someone (Iowa State?) to the other division.
I'm not convinced the non land grant name thing is an issue for the B12. They already have Baylor, TCU, etc. Cincy is in.
USF and UCF each have more students than every team currently in the B12 and continue to grow. They are both in.
Agree the 4th spot is tough. Needs to be Houston.
I agree with all that have taken my four team suggestion of Cincy, UCF, USF, and Memphis and analyzed it. I agree, I don't think the state-name/land-grant thing is that big of an issue for the Big 12 (but what do I know really). Not sure what the stigma of city name teams either as many have been successful over the years, public and private (Miami, Boston College, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Louisville, Houston, Boise, Fresno, San Diego St, etc. just to name a few). I don't believe it hampers their ability to recruit outside of their city and in some-ways city name schools have had more success than directional state school. Aside from USC, have there really been any directional state schools that have had a high level of success, hard to compare as none of them have been in power conferences, again, aside from USC. UCF, USF, NIU, ECU all had success in their respective conferences and on a national stage (to some degree). I think not being on a power conference has hampered them far more than their directional status has. If you're SE Oklahoma St, or Western Wyoming, then yeah... probably no help, but being a directional school in a major population state (and city ie. Orlando, Tampa, etc.) is probably better than being a flagship of a state with no people (Montana, Wyoming, etc.).
With that all said... I don't understand the hatred/dislike towards Memphis from the Big 12. Supposedly they weren't high on the list last round (probably viewed more as a basketball school from the Metro/C-USA than as a legitimate football contender with large fanbase). Is that starting to change as their football has rose to prominence under two different head coaches and sustained over 3 seasons? Can they keep it going? They are doing this while in a non-power conference in the heart of SEC country mind you. Basketball just needs to recover and they are at least as sexy as Cincinnati as an add if not more-so. Is it academics potentially? I don't know where Memphis ranks nationally or in comparison to the rest of the B12, but I could see that maybe being a factor. Athletically Memphis is invested with a basketball program that can get right back up to the top with a large following despite the Memphis Grizzlies also in town. There is no NFL in any direction for 3-4 hours, even less now that St. Louis Rams have moved to LA. Save for two bad weather games this yr, Memphis would have averaged 42-45k, this playing a non-power conf schedule. Their football stadium is continuing to be updated/improved and already sits in the middle of the pack (6th) for B12 stadium size (no expansion needed).
BYU obviously is the top add on most people's list and them being on an island wouldn't be a huge issue as they have the money and are used to playing a national schedule (at least in football anyway). It would be more of a strain on the Big 12 members to have to not only go far east but also far to the west. Divisions would be a challenge with BYU in the conf. I honestly think BYU will maintain independence for a long time, much like Notre Dame has does in the east.
The B12 already committed to expanding eastward when they added West Virginia and that is where the bulk of eyeballs and talent seems to be as well. At what point does the B12 realize that they are on borrowed time currently and more members will defect if something isn't done to broaden the reach of the conference and create long term stability. I honestly don't see Texas (UT) EVER joining another conference as they are the cornerstone of the Southwest conf and a major cornerstone (with OU) of the Big 12. Even if OU were to leave, Texas would stay and probably add back another former SWC team to replace them (SMU, Houston, Rice). Texas is Texas, they march to the beat of their own drum. The Big 12 was more viable together than the Big 8 and SWC were separately but that dream is falling apart unless they do something to change that. Does OU and/or OSU want to go to the SEC vs staying in their own conference, no, probably not. They have NOTHING in common with PAC-12 schools, nor does anyone in the B12. The Big 12, anchored by Texas and Oklahoma needs to continue. I just don't see OU/OSU happy in another conf, and which one? Their 3 former Big 8 mates (Mizzou, Colorado, and Nebraska) are split equally between 3 different conferences, so any move wouldn't even be to really reunite with many long lost friends. Do they fit in well with the Big Ten... maybe, but probably not. The SEC? Competitively sure, but culturally? PAC-12... I already went over that one. They fit in with the other plains states. Hate to say it but the Big 12 is one big old happy dysfunctional family. Of course I'm advocating for some others who don't fit into the mix to join, but I feel it's easier to add a few misfits than to be a misfit outsider yourself of another conf. Memphis, Cincinnati, UCF, and USF are relative newcomers and have already adapted through 2-3 conference changes already over the past 15-20 yrs and are accustomed and adept at doing so. Outside of WVU and TCU, ALL of the current Big 12 members have only changed conferences ONCE in recent history (the Big 8 / SWC merging to form the Big 12), before that, the bulk of those schools were together for many decades, some now for over 100 yrs.
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Rank the AAC schools the BIG XII would want
