The unofficial online home for fans of the University of Cincinnati Bearcats. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(11-18-2017 04:42 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 02:39 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 01:52 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 12:16 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  Btw it’s still not out of the question that everyone gets what they want. Maybe the lindners get called in the Newport bluff and pay for it all and still build in Oakley and Order is restored in the world.

That would be a minor miracle.

The city is going to give them what they want. I don't pay taxes in the city limits so I really don't have a real dog in that fight.

I mean...how many people INSIDE the city limits do anyways?

Dayum! Burn!

Knocking the City of Cincinnati is fun sport, but if you see where things are happening, it’s not NKY, Butler County, Clermont County. It’s in the city.

I’m guessing the people buying $900,000 townhomes in OTR are paying someone a ton of taxes.

(11-19-2017 03:33 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 04:42 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 02:39 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 01:52 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 12:16 PM)BeerCat Wrote:  Btw it’s still not out of the question that everyone gets what they want. Maybe the lindners get called in the Newport bluff and pay for it all and still build in Oakley and Order is restored in the world.

That would be a minor miracle.

The city is going to give them what they want. I don't pay taxes in the city limits so I really don't have a real dog in that fight.

I mean...how many people INSIDE the city limits do anyways?

Dayum! Burn!

Knocking the City of Cincinnati is fun sport, but if you see where things are happening, it’s not NKY, Butler County, Clermont County. It’s in the city.

I’m guessing the people buying $900,000 townhomes in OTR are paying someone a ton of taxes.

The City deserves to be knocked...The city gave all of those wealthy OTR property owners big tax abatements to entice them to move to OTR.

Many property owners in newer pricey OTR builds and renos pay zero property taxes for the first 10-15 years of ownership...due to property tax abatements of 10-15 years.

They would be paying income taxes but regardless of where someone lives they are paying income taxes to the feds, state and likely a municipality.

"In Cincinnati property owners get 10 years of tax abatements on non-LEED Certified projects and 15 years for LEED certified projects."

http://www.fox19.com/story/22820558/fox1...ay-at-10pm

In addition to generous tax abatements, city council also spent a ton of public funds to build the choo choo. No one else really benefits from the choo choo but OTR residents. The choo choo was sold as self-supporting. It isn't. I doubt it ever will be.

The City of Cincinnati is 200+Million in debt. City Council shouldn't be giving abatements to people of wealth...they shouldn't be building street cars nor expanding it — not when the viaduct is falling apart, bridges are falling apart, and the MSD needs a complete overhaul.

When the left talks about the right giving tax breaks to the rich...they speak out of both sides of their mouths because both parties do it to suit their pet projects. Both parties screw the middle class.

As a tax payer very much in city proper.. I can assure you many in the city limits pay taxes.. and not a humble brag, but I know I make on the high end of my neighborhood, so there are some of us who will move out and the loss of a couple grand per year will be felt. If there are just a couple hundred people like me who leave because I am paying for a couple hundred million dollar streetcar but we can't afford to actually fix streets and or other projects.. then I can promise you they will miss our 1/2-1$ mil a year in taxes.. I am in favor of the stadium bc of the amount of payment on both sides, I think it is a very healthy private/public allocation, but I understand people who are against it because of how we have done soo poorly in the past with ANY major public financing

Enquire PX article today states Cranley buried this gem in his plan...tried to slip in that Port Authority would have to own this stadium...Port Authority which is jointly run with Hamilton County. Lol. They got caught trying to trick the County into having to maintain this thing after all. What a swampy mess.

(11-19-2017 10:31 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-19-2017 03:33 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 04:42 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 02:39 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 01:52 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  The city is going to give them what they want. I don't pay taxes in the city limits so I really don't have a real dog in that fight.

I mean...how many people INSIDE the city limits do anyways?

Dayum! Burn!

Knocking the City of Cincinnati is fun sport, but if you see where things are happening, it’s not NKY, Butler County, Clermont County. It’s in the city.

I’m guessing the people buying $900,000 townhomes in OTR are paying someone a ton of taxes.

The City deserves to be knocked...The city gave all of those wealthy OTR property owners big tax abatements to entice them to move to OTR.

Many property owners in newer pricey OTR builds and renos pay zero property taxes for the first 10-15 years of ownership...due to property tax abatements of 10-15 years.

They would be paying income taxes but regardless of where someone lives they are paying income taxes to the feds, state and likely a municipality.

"In Cincinnati property owners get 10 years of tax abatements on non-LEED Certified projects and 15 years for LEED certified projects."

http://www.fox19.com/story/22820558/fox1...ay-at-10pm

In addition to generous tax abatements, city council also spent a ton of public funds to build the choo choo. No one else really benefits from the choo choo but OTR residents. The choo choo was sold as self-supporting. It isn't. I doubt it ever will be.

The City of Cincinnati is 200+Million in debt. City Council shouldn't be giving abatements to people of wealth...they shouldn't be building street cars nor expanding it — not when the viaduct is falling apart, bridges are falling apart, and the MSD needs a complete overhaul.

When the left talks about the right giving tax breaks to the rich...they speak out of both sides of their mouths because both parties do it to suit their pet projects. Both parties screw the middle class.

If by “wealthy property owners” you mean developers, that would be correct. Property tax abatements are assets handed by government to developers in order to lure them to build in areas they would not normally develop. This “gift” to developers is a way for them to lower risk and pad margins. Since the abatement has quantifiable value, it is up to the developer to decide how to price the abatement into the sale of the property.

I always chuckle when I hear people talk about giving wealthy home buyers tax abatements. No, they BOUGHT that abatement. Chances are they took a loan out against that expensive home, and part of that loan is to pay hidden costs up front for the right to pay no taxes for up to 15 years.

I had a debate about this years ago with a realtor friend of mine. Frustrated that he he didn’t understand, I actually consulted a real estate professor at UC who agreed with my position.

(11-21-2017 10:06 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-19-2017 10:31 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-19-2017 03:33 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 04:42 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 02:39 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  I mean...how many people INSIDE the city limits do anyways?

Dayum! Burn!

Knocking the City of Cincinnati is fun sport, but if you see where things are happening, it’s not NKY, Butler County, Clermont County. It’s in the city.

I’m guessing the people buying $900,000 townhomes in OTR are paying someone a ton of taxes.

The City deserves to be knocked...The city gave all of those wealthy OTR property owners big tax abatements to entice them to move to OTR.

Many property owners in newer pricey OTR builds and renos pay zero property taxes for the first 10-15 years of ownership...due to property tax abatements of 10-15 years.

They would be paying income taxes but regardless of where someone lives they are paying income taxes to the feds, state and likely a municipality.

"In Cincinnati property owners get 10 years of tax abatements on non-LEED Certified projects and 15 years for LEED certified projects."

http://www.fox19.com/story/22820558/fox1...ay-at-10pm

In addition to generous tax abatements, city council also spent a ton of public funds to build the choo choo. No one else really benefits from the choo choo but OTR residents. The choo choo was sold as self-supporting. It isn't. I doubt it ever will be.

The City of Cincinnati is 200+Million in debt. City Council shouldn't be giving abatements to people of wealth...they shouldn't be building street cars nor expanding it — not when the viaduct is falling apart, bridges are falling apart, and the MSD needs a complete overhaul.

When the left talks about the right giving tax breaks to the rich...they speak out of both sides of their mouths because both parties do it to suit their pet projects. Both parties screw the middle class.

If by “wealthy property owners” you mean developers, that would be correct. Property tax abatements are assets handed by government to developers in order to lure them to build in areas they would not normally develop. This “gift” to developers is a way for them to lower risk and pad margins. Since the abatement has quantifiable value, it is up to the developer to decide how to price the abatement into the sale of the property.

I always chuckle when I hear people talk about giving wealthy home buyers tax abatements. No, they BOUGHT that abatement. Chances are they took a loan out against that expensive home, and part of that loan is to pay up front for the right to pay for the hidden cost to pay no taxes for up to 15 years.

I had a debate about this years ago with a realtor friend of mine. Frustrated that he he didn’t understand, I actually consulted a real estate professor at UC who agreed with my position.

He is a professor for a reason. Those who can’t do teach. If they don’t have skin in the game chances are they don’t fully understand the issue either.

(11-21-2017 10:12 AM)@ES Trader Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 10:06 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-19-2017 10:31 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-19-2017 03:33 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 04:42 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  Dayum! Burn!

Knocking the City of Cincinnati is fun sport, but if you see where things are happening, it’s not NKY, Butler County, Clermont County. It’s in the city.

I’m guessing the people buying $900,000 townhomes in OTR are paying someone a ton of taxes.

The City deserves to be knocked...The city gave all of those wealthy OTR property owners big tax abatements to entice them to move to OTR.

Many property owners in newer pricey OTR builds and renos pay zero property taxes for the first 10-15 years of ownership...due to property tax abatements of 10-15 years.

They would be paying income taxes but regardless of where someone lives they are paying income taxes to the feds, state and likely a municipality.

"In Cincinnati property owners get 10 years of tax abatements on non-LEED Certified projects and 15 years for LEED certified projects."

http://www.fox19.com/story/22820558/fox1...ay-at-10pm

In addition to generous tax abatements, city council also spent a ton of public funds to build the choo choo. No one else really benefits from the choo choo but OTR residents. The choo choo was sold as self-supporting. It isn't. I doubt it ever will be.

The City of Cincinnati is 200+Million in debt. City Council shouldn't be giving abatements to people of wealth...they shouldn't be building street cars nor expanding it — not when the viaduct is falling apart, bridges are falling apart, and the MSD needs a complete overhaul.

When the left talks about the right giving tax breaks to the rich...they speak out of both sides of their mouths because both parties do it to suit their pet projects. Both parties screw the middle class.

If by “wealthy property owners” you mean developers, that would be correct. Property tax abatements are assets handed by government to developers in order to lure them to build in areas they would not normally develop. This “gift” to developers is a way for them to lower risk and pad margins. Since the abatement has quantifiable value, it is up to the developer to decide how to price the abatement into the sale of the property.

I always chuckle when I hear people talk about giving wealthy home buyers tax abatements. No, they BOUGHT that abatement. Chances are they took a loan out against that expensive home, and part of that loan is to pay up front for the right to pay for the hidden cost to pay no taxes for up to 15 years.

I had a debate about this years ago with a realtor friend of mine. Frustrated that he he didn’t understand, I actually consulted a real estate professor at UC who agreed with my position.

He is a professor for a reason. Those who can’t do teach. If they don’t have skin in the game chances are they don’t fully understand the issue either.

Please explain your point.

(11-19-2017 10:31 AM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  

(11-19-2017 03:33 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 04:42 PM)Billy_Bearcat Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 02:39 PM)BearcatMan Wrote:  

(11-18-2017 01:52 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  The city is going to give them what they want. I don't pay taxes in the city limits so I really don't have a real dog in that fight.

I mean...how many people INSIDE the city limits do anyways?

Dayum! Burn!

Knocking the City of Cincinnati is fun sport, but if you see where things are happening, it’s not NKY, Butler County, Clermont County. It’s in the city.

I’m guessing the people buying $900,000 townhomes in OTR are paying someone a ton of taxes.

The City deserves to be knocked...The city gave all of those wealthy OTR property owners big tax abatements to entice them to move to OTR.

Many property owners in newer pricey OTR builds and renos pay zero property taxes for the first 10-15 years of ownership...due to property tax abatements of 10-15 years.

They would be paying income taxes but regardless of where someone lives they are paying income taxes to the feds, state and likely a municipality.

"In Cincinnati property owners get 10 years of tax abatements on non-LEED Certified projects and 15 years for LEED certified projects."

http://www.fox19.com/story/22820558/fox1...ay-at-10pm

In addition to generous tax abatements, city council also spent a ton of public funds to build the choo choo. No one else really benefits from the choo choo but OTR residents. The choo choo was sold as self-supporting. It isn't. I doubt it ever will be.

The City of Cincinnati is 200+Million in debt. City Council shouldn't be giving abatements to people of wealth...they shouldn't be building street cars nor expanding it — not when the viaduct is falling apart, bridges are falling apart, and the MSD needs a complete overhaul.

When the left talks about the right giving tax breaks to the rich...they speak out of both sides of their mouths because both parties do it to suit their pet projects. Both parties screw the middle class.

Ouch. By the choo choo to nowhere logic it is evident we should stop funding interstates entirely, unless we can make them self sufficient. Maybe heavily toll them. But interstates are certainly money losers as they are very expensive to build and maintain. I suppose there might be a slight economic advantage to having the interstate highway system though. That logic might be applicable to other infrastructure projects elsewhere, come to think of it.

Interstate highways = massive subsidy for the trucking industry.

Interstate highways = Making voters who drive a car (~90%) happy.

(11-21-2017 12:06 PM)Bruce Monnin Wrote:  Interstate highways = Making voters who drive a car (~90%) happy.

And whose gas tax pays for the roads.

Every honest thinking person knew the train was an economic disaster.

I laughed out loud when they released their projected monthly ridership numbers and income. Hysterical. It's been an unmitigated disaster. I watch them run empty all week long. Hardly anyone pays when they do actually ride it. The consultants who provided the initial numbers should be sued for negligence. We are approaching 30% of ridership projections and even less when it comes to operating income. It goes do n monthly.

Each month it falls deeper and deeper into the labrea tarpit of more and more lost taxpayer millions.

Only people this was good for were the LLC's of people around local government and their benefactors who knew the route ahead of time and purchased up dilapidated properties for cheap.

(11-21-2017 01:39 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I laughed out loud when they released their projected monthly ridership numbers and income. Hysterical. It's been an unmitigated disaster. I watch them run empty all week long. Hardly anyone pays when they do actually ride it. The consultants who provided the initial numbers should be sued for negligence. We are approaching 30% of ridership projections and even less when it comes to operating income. It goes do n monthly.

Each month it falls deeper and deeper into the labrea tarpit of more and more lost taxpayer millions.

Only people this was good for were the LLC's of people around local government and their benefactors who knew the route ahead of time and purchased up dilapidated properties for cheap.

I have road Street Cars in SF and NO. They go someplace and they look charming.

Our "Street Cars" go virtually nowhere and are not charming.

(11-21-2017 02:02 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 01:39 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I laughed out loud when they released their projected monthly ridership numbers and income. Hysterical. It's been an unmitigated disaster. I watch them run empty all week long. Hardly anyone pays when they do actually ride it. The consultants who provided the initial numbers should be sued for negligence. We are approaching 30% of ridership projections and even less when it comes to operating income. It goes do n monthly.

Each month it falls deeper and deeper into the labrea tarpit of more and more lost taxpayer millions.

Only people this was good for were the LLC's of people around local government and their benefactors who knew the route ahead of time and purchased up dilapidated properties for cheap.

I have road Street Cars in SF and NO. They go someplace and they look charming.

Our "Street Cars" go virtually nowhere and are not charming.

That’s because after it was voted on twice Republicans cut the funding and half the route. It was supposed to go all the way up
The hill to UC.

(11-21-2017 04:12 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 02:02 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 01:39 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I laughed out loud when they released their projected monthly ridership numbers and income. Hysterical. It's been an unmitigated disaster. I watch them run empty all week long. Hardly anyone pays when they do actually ride it. The consultants who provided the initial numbers should be sued for negligence. We are approaching 30% of ridership projections and even less when it comes to operating income. It goes do n monthly.

Each month it falls deeper and deeper into the labrea tarpit of more and more lost taxpayer millions.

Only people this was good for were the LLC's of people around local government and their benefactors who knew the route ahead of time and purchased up dilapidated properties for cheap.

I have road Street Cars in SF and NO. They go someplace and they look charming.

Our "Street Cars" go virtually nowhere and are not charming.

That’s because after it was voted on twice Republicans cut the funding and half the route. It was supposed to go all the way up
The hill to UC.

Going uptown was not in any of the original official plans. Lots of talk about it though.

(11-21-2017 01:39 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I laughed out loud when they released their projected monthly ridership numbers and income. Hysterical. It's been an unmitigated disaster. I watch them run empty all week long. Hardly anyone pays when they do actually ride it. The consultants who provided the initial numbers should be sued for negligence. We are approaching 30% of ridership projections and even less when it comes to operating income. It goes do n monthly.

Each month it falls deeper and deeper into the labrea tarpit of more and more lost taxpayer millions.

Only people this was good for were the LLC's of people around local government and their benefactors who knew the route ahead of time and purchased up dilapidated properties for cheap.

They ironic sales pitch about the streetcar is that downtown/otr workers and residents would be on it all of the time, and suburban dwellers would not. On weekends, warmer weather, suburban folks drive down to the banks and hop on it they tend to pack more so than the urban folks.

How in the hell can ride it and not pay? That is

(11-21-2017 04:14 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 04:12 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 02:02 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 01:39 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I laughed out loud when they released their projected monthly ridership numbers and income. Hysterical. It's been an unmitigated disaster. I watch them run empty all week long. Hardly anyone pays when they do actually ride it. The consultants who provided the initial numbers should be sued for negligence. We are approaching 30% of ridership projections and even less when it comes to operating income. It goes do n monthly.

Each month it falls deeper and deeper into the labrea tarpit of more and more lost taxpayer millions.

Only people this was good for were the LLC's of people around local government and their benefactors who knew the route ahead of time and purchased up dilapidated properties for cheap.

I have road Street Cars in SF and NO. They go someplace and they look charming.

Our "Street Cars" go virtually nowhere and are not charming.

That’s because after it was voted on twice Republicans cut the funding and half the route. It was supposed to go all the way up
The hill to UC.

Going uptown was not in any of the original official plans. Lots of talk about it though.

The plan was to run it up the hill until Kasich pulled federal money that had already been allocated to it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinn...p/90126302

(11-21-2017 05:23 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 04:14 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 04:12 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 02:02 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 01:39 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I laughed out loud when they released their projected monthly ridership numbers and income. Hysterical. It's been an unmitigated disaster. I watch them run empty all week long. Hardly anyone pays when they do actually ride it. The consultants who provided the initial numbers should be sued for negligence. We are approaching 30% of ridership projections and even less when it comes to operating income. It goes do n monthly.

Each month it falls deeper and deeper into the labrea tarpit of more and more lost taxpayer millions.

Only people this was good for were the LLC's of people around local government and their benefactors who knew the route ahead of time and purchased up dilapidated properties for cheap.

I have road Street Cars in SF and NO. They go someplace and they look charming.

Our "Street Cars" go virtually nowhere and are not charming.

That’s because after it was voted on twice Republicans cut the funding and half the route. It was supposed to go all the way up
The hill to UC.

Going uptown was not in any of the original official plans. Lots of talk about it though.

The plan was to run it up the hill until Kasich pulled federal money that had already been allocated to it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinn...p/90126302

And really how much would that have added?

Instead a unmitigated loss it would just be a big loss.

(11-21-2017 05:23 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 04:14 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 04:12 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 02:02 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 01:39 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  I laughed out loud when they released their projected monthly ridership numbers and income. Hysterical. It's been an unmitigated disaster. I watch them run empty all week long. Hardly anyone pays when they do actually ride it. The consultants who provided the initial numbers should be sued for negligence. We are approaching 30% of ridership projections and even less when it comes to operating income. It goes do n monthly.

Each month it falls deeper and deeper into the labrea tarpit of more and more lost taxpayer millions.

Only people this was good for were the LLC's of people around local government and their benefactors who knew the route ahead of time and purchased up dilapidated properties for cheap.

I have road Street Cars in SF and NO. They go someplace and they look charming.

Our "Street Cars" go virtually nowhere and are not charming.

That’s because after it was voted on twice Republicans cut the funding and half the route. It was supposed to go all the way up
The hill to UC.

Going uptown was not in any of the original official plans. Lots of talk about it though.

The plan was to run it up the hill until Kasich pulled federal money that had already been allocated to it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinn...p/90126302

Maybe Kasich could see what a loser it was going to be and pulled the plug on those additional funds before more money was wasted on it.

(11-21-2017 06:06 PM)doss2 Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 05:23 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 04:14 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 04:12 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(11-21-2017 02:02 PM)doss2 Wrote:  I have road Street Cars in SF and NO. They go someplace and they look charming.

Our "Street Cars" go virtually nowhere and are not charming.

That’s because after it was voted on twice Republicans cut the funding and half the route. It was supposed to go all the way up
The hill to UC.

Going uptown was not in any of the original official plans. Lots of talk about it though.

The plan was to run it up the hill until Kasich pulled federal money that had already been allocated to it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinn...p/90126302

And really how much would that have added?

Instead a unmitigated loss it would just be a big loss.

It would have connected the two major employment centers of the city...and eliminated the complaint that it goes nowhere.