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(11-15-2017 09:30 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  This thread is stupid. Bunch of guys who never played college ball arguing about if a guy is good enough to play at ODU.

Fact: Haynes can shoot the ball. When he takes good in rhythm shots, he knocks them down. Last year he took a ton of bad shots. This year (in an extremely small sample) he has been taking good shots. If this continues he will be fine.

Fact: Talley is a 3. People may not like It, but that’s his position. Would he have played the 4 this year? Most likely. Lack of depth and the fact that BJ has played there tells you JJ doesn’t have an issue putting another ball handler in that position.

Last i checked Talley is at Iowa State & will most likely be successful. Either wish the guy luck and move on OR don’t wish him luck and move on...... but either way move the f**k on

You do realize that understanding a sport and playing at the highest collegiate level have absolutely nothing to do with each other, right. Just ask Brad Stevens and Shaka Smart if you disagree.

(11-15-2017 09:46 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  You do realize that understanding a sport and playing at the highest collegiate level have absolutely nothing to do with each other, right. Just ask Brad Stevens and Shaka Smart if you disagree.

And I DEFINITELY know as much about basketball as they do.

(11-15-2017 10:02 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 09:46 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  You do realize that understanding a sport and playing at the highest collegiate level have absolutely nothing to do with each other, right. Just ask Brad Stevens and Shaka Smart if you disagree.

And I DEFINITELY know as much about basketball as they do.

I have forgotten more than you, and the two of them know combined.

(11-15-2017 09:21 AM)ODUCoach Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 09:20 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 06:52 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I disagree. He's streaky but Haynes can shoot it. He didn't convert on all of them but he definitely put it up more than Talley did, even on a foreign court. So just the threat of taking the shot is worth something.

This is the key. Haynes may not be a great shooter, but he is good enough, and willing enough to attempt, that defenders have to guard him. Nobody even guarded Talley outside of 16 feet.

If I'm scouting Haynes, though, I'm not closing out on him until he improves his percentage. If I'm an opposing coach, I'm letting a 25% shooter take all the jump shots he wants.

Do you think he continues to shoot 25% on uncontested 3s?

(11-15-2017 10:28 AM)T-Mac Wrote:  Do you think he continues to shoot 25% on uncontested 3s?

As a fan, I certainly hope not. But, until he proves it, why would you guard him? JMU was only the 3rd game in his career that he made two 3's in a game. It took him 7 attempts to do it. As an opposing coach, I'd live with that all day.

Eh. Regardless of our collective knowledge and basketball minutes played, I still enjoy "useless" threads like these. This has turned more into a detail about Haynes, which I think is a good discussion. Sometimes the thread just needs 30 posts before the real talk starts

(11-15-2017 09:46 AM)Monarchblue Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 09:30 AM)Justanodufan Wrote:  This thread is stupid. Bunch of guys who never played college ball arguing about if a guy is good enough to play at ODU.

Fact: Haynes can shoot the ball. When he takes good in rhythm shots, he knocks them down. Last year he took a ton of bad shots. This year (in an extremely small sample) he has been taking good shots. If this continues he will be fine.

Fact: Talley is a 3. People may not like It, but that’s his position. Would he have played the 4 this year? Most likely. Lack of depth and the fact that BJ has played there tells you JJ doesn’t have an issue putting another ball handler in that position.

Last i checked Talley is at Iowa State & will most likely be successful. Either wish the guy luck and move on OR don’t wish him luck and move on...... but either way move the f**k on

You do realize that understanding a sport and playing at the highest collegiate level have absolutely nothing to do with each other, right. Just ask Brad Stevens and Shaka Smart if you disagree.

I said collegiate ball. Both Smart and Stevens played collegiate ball. Something you did not do. Nice attempt at changing what i said

I'd rather talk about Randy Haynes, but FWIW, Mick Cronin, Buzz Williams, Tom Crean, Scott Drew, Rick Majerus, Mark Few are among the many really good basketball coaches who never played college ball.

I think if teams continue to leave Haynes open he will shoot in the 33% range over the course of the season. Nothing to get super excited about, but enough to warrant guarding him. His shot doesn't look bad at all, and thus far he seems to be stepping into jumpers with confidence. As long as he keeps getting the green light and keeps taking what's given to him, I am hopeful that improved numbers will come... Also, he is averaging only 3 fewer points than Talley, a touch more rebounds and 3 times the assists. Talley's extra scoring can largely be attributed to the emphasis that was put on getting him shots.

(11-15-2017 08:42 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 07:01 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 06:58 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I'm certainly not basing it on practice as I live about 4 hours further from ODU than you do. But I know you have to respect a shooter and Haynes will take the shot. That has always been a part of the problem. ODU needs players that make defenders respect the shot and my frustration is when a player is afraid to give themselves a chance for success.

Im not sure if I was playing defense that I would guard Haynes out to the 3 point line if I was defending him. What is his percentage, 25%?

Stop living off numbers and open your eyes. Randy can and will shoot well.

Also, Talley would have impacted Xavier's minutes. With that being the case, I wish Talley the best but I am happy he found a new home.

So, how can Haynes shoot? If you don't make shots, how can you be considered a good shooter? There is hope that he can become a good shooter, but has shown to not be at this point.

By some peoples logic, if Talley would have just shot more, he'd be a better player. No matter if he makes.

(11-15-2017 12:46 PM)ODUCoach Wrote:  I'd rather talk about Randy Haynes, but FWIW, Mick Cronin, Buzz Williams, Tom Crean, Scott Drew, Rick Majerus, Mark Few are among the many really good basketball coaches who never played college ball.

Nice point there Coach.

I'm sure that a bunch of current and former college basketball coaches could also be named that did play college ball, but were not very good coaches. Just goes to show that like most things in life, it's what you do when you get there, not how you arrived.

(11-15-2017 01:19 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 08:42 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 07:01 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 06:58 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I'm certainly not basing it on practice as I live about 4 hours further from ODU than you do. But I know you have to respect a shooter and Haynes will take the shot. That has always been a part of the problem. ODU needs players that make defenders respect the shot and my frustration is when a player is afraid to give themselves a chance for success.

Im not sure if I was playing defense that I would guard Haynes out to the 3 point line if I was defending him. What is his percentage, 25%?

Stop living off numbers and open your eyes. Randy can and will shoot well.

Also, Talley would have impacted Xavier's minutes. With that being the case, I wish Talley the best but I am happy he found a new home.

So, how can Haynes shoot? If you don't make shots, how can you be considered a good shooter? There is hope that he can become a good shooter, but has shown to not be at this point.

By some peoples logic, if Talley would have just shot more, he'd be a better player. No matter if he makes.

What is your sample size?

Was it last year when Jones would take him off the floor if he took a bad shot? How do you expect someone to shoot well when you do that?

Is your argument based off of two games this year?

Whatever it is...it is not enough to say Randy can't shoot.

Edit: In the scrimmage Randy went 5-9 from 3. Granted, it was against a D3 team, but your argument is that you can just leave him wide open.

(11-15-2017 01:28 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 01:19 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 08:42 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 07:01 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 06:58 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I'm certainly not basing it on practice as I live about 4 hours further from ODU than you do. But I know you have to respect a shooter and Haynes will take the shot. That has always been a part of the problem. ODU needs players that make defenders respect the shot and my frustration is when a player is afraid to give themselves a chance for success.

Im not sure if I was playing defense that I would guard Haynes out to the 3 point line if I was defending him. What is his percentage, 25%?

Stop living off numbers and open your eyes. Randy can and will shoot well.

Also, Talley would have impacted Xavier's minutes. With that being the case, I wish Talley the best but I am happy he found a new home.

So, how can Haynes shoot? If you don't make shots, how can you be considered a good shooter? There is hope that he can become a good shooter, but has shown to not be at this point.

By some peoples logic, if Talley would have just shot more, he'd be a better player. No matter if he makes.

What is your sample size?

Was it last year when Jones would take him off the floor if he took a bad shot? How do you expect someone to shoot well when you do that?

Is your argument based off of two games this year?

Whatever it is...it is not enough to say Randy can't shoot.

It certainly is not based off his ENTIRE body of work we have seen this year because he was 5-9 in the exhibition game. That puts him at 38%. #samplesizes

Edit: Oops I see you went back and added this before I finished typing.

(11-14-2017 07:01 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 06:58 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I'm certainly not basing it on practice as I live about 4 hours further from ODU than you do. But I know you have to respect a shooter and Haynes will take the shot. That has always been a part of the problem. ODU needs players that make defenders respect the shot and my frustration is when a player is afraid to give themselves a chance for success.

Im not sure if I was playing defense that I would guard Haynes out to the 3 point line if I was defending him. What is his percentage, 25%?

Either your coach would probably end up putting you on the bench, or you would change your coverage. If you were giving him open looks from 3 by not covering him out there, I'm pretty sure he would be shooting much higher than 25% against you.

Besides that, ... you have stated on the boards several times, (I'm paraphrasing here) "people act as if players can't or don't improve from year to year". Two games into this season is much too small of a sample size to make shooting judgements yet regarding how a player will perform this season. They are still learning their own roles as well as how to work together with their teammates. Caver for example missed most of the shots he took from both the field and the line against Towson. Is he going to be a 20% shooter this year? Also, how poorly did B.J. shoot in the first 5 - 10 games last season before he got things figured out?

(11-15-2017 09:12 AM)FearTheLion Wrote:  Agreed. Haynes definitely needs to be more accurate this year. But he pulled up on almost every open shot at JMU on a foreign court and I think that will bode well when he connects on a few.

As far as Talley, I also wish him the best. That train is unfortunately gone and ODU still has a season to play. But I like some of what I saw the other night (switching to some zone with X up high, Jeff pushing guys to push pace, BJ and Haynes attempting shots with confidence, and our ability to grind on a foreign court without a big game from Caver).

I worry about our lack of frontcourt depth much more than Randy Haynes's performance at the twoo.

You and me both. I would add our depth at point guard as well.

(11-15-2017 01:28 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 01:19 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 08:42 AM)757ODU Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 07:01 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 06:58 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I'm certainly not basing it on practice as I live about 4 hours further from ODU than you do. But I know you have to respect a shooter and Haynes will take the shot. That has always been a part of the problem. ODU needs players that make defenders respect the shot and my frustration is when a player is afraid to give themselves a chance for success.

Im not sure if I was playing defense that I would guard Haynes out to the 3 point line if I was defending him. What is his percentage, 25%?

Stop living off numbers and open your eyes. Randy can and will shoot well.

Also, Talley would have impacted Xavier's minutes. With that being the case, I wish Talley the best but I am happy he found a new home.

So, how can Haynes shoot? If you don't make shots, how can you be considered a good shooter? There is hope that he can become a good shooter, but has shown to not be at this point.

By some peoples logic, if Talley would have just shot more, he'd be a better player. No matter if he makes.

What is your sample size?

Was it last year when Jones would take him off the floor if he took a bad shot? How do you expect someone to shoot well when you do that?

Is your argument based off of two games this year?

Whatever it is...it is not enough to say Randy can't shoot.

Edit: In the scrimmage Randy went 5-9 from 3. Granted, it was against a D3 team, but your argument is that you can just leave him wide open.

Sample size is the 1 year plus 2 games at ODU.

(11-15-2017 02:07 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 07:01 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 06:58 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I'm certainly not basing it on practice as I live about 4 hours further from ODU than you do. But I know you have to respect a shooter and Haynes will take the shot. That has always been a part of the problem. ODU needs players that make defenders respect the shot and my frustration is when a player is afraid to give themselves a chance for success.

Im not sure if I was playing defense that I would guard Haynes out to the 3 point line if I was defending him. What is his percentage, 25%?

Either your coach would probably end up putting you on the bench, or you would change your coverage. If you were giving him open looks from 3 by not covering him out there, I'm pretty sure he would be shooting much higher than 25% against you.

Besides that, ... you have stated on the boards several times, (I'm paraphrasing here) "people act as if players can't or don't improve from year to year". Two games into this season is much too small of a sample size to make shooting judgements yet regarding how a player will perform this season. They are still learning their own roles as well as how to work together with their teammates. Caver for example missed most of the shots he took from both the field and the line against Towson. Is he going to be a 20% shooter this year? Also, how poorly did B.J. shoot in the first 5 - 10 games last season before he got things figured out?

Not basing off two games but the number of games at ODU. Could he have the potential to be a good shooter? Possibly. Does that me he is a good shooter?

(11-15-2017 02:25 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 02:07 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 07:01 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 06:58 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I'm certainly not basing it on practice as I live about 4 hours further from ODU than you do. But I know you have to respect a shooter and Haynes will take the shot. That has always been a part of the problem. ODU needs players that make defenders respect the shot and my frustration is when a player is afraid to give themselves a chance for success.

Im not sure if I was playing defense that I would guard Haynes out to the 3 point line if I was defending him. What is his percentage, 25%?

Either your coach would probably end up putting you on the bench, or you would change your coverage. If you were giving him open looks from 3 by not covering him out there, I'm pretty sure he would be shooting much higher than 25% against you.

Besides that, ... you have stated on the boards several times, (I'm paraphrasing here) "people act as if players can't or don't improve from year to year". Two games into this season is much too small of a sample size to make shooting judgements yet regarding how a player will perform this season. They are still learning their own roles as well as how to work together with their teammates. Caver for example missed most of the shots he took from both the field and the line against Towson. Is he going to be a 20% shooter this year? Also, how poorly did B.J. shoot in the first 5 - 10 games last season before he got things figured out?

Not basing off two games but the number of games at ODU. Could he have the potential to be a good shooter? Possibly. Does that me he is a good shooter?

If you are basing off of the total number of games he has played at ODU instead of the 2 games thus far this season then you are including yourself among those that you have called out in the past for "not believing that players can improve".

If you are asking me if that (whatever 'that' is) means he is a good shooter, then I would answer that it is too soon this season to tell. I suspect that he will be at or above 30% from 3 by the end of the season, and most likely above.

As someone pointed out, Randy hit 5 of 9 from the 3 point line in the recent exhibition game. In any league, and at any level, that is very strong 3 point shooting in one of only about 4 or 5 games against outside competition that he has played in thus far this season with ODU even if it didn't count in the standings.

(11-15-2017 02:57 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 02:25 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 02:07 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 07:01 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 06:58 PM)FearTheLion Wrote:  I'm certainly not basing it on practice as I live about 4 hours further from ODU than you do. But I know you have to respect a shooter and Haynes will take the shot. That has always been a part of the problem. ODU needs players that make defenders respect the shot and my frustration is when a player is afraid to give themselves a chance for success.

Im not sure if I was playing defense that I would guard Haynes out to the 3 point line if I was defending him. What is his percentage, 25%?

Either your coach would probably end up putting you on the bench, or you would change your coverage. If you were giving him open looks from 3 by not covering him out there, I'm pretty sure he would be shooting much higher than 25% against you.

Besides that, ... you have stated on the boards several times, (I'm paraphrasing here) "people act as if players can't or don't improve from year to year". Two games into this season is much too small of a sample size to make shooting judgements yet regarding how a player will perform this season. They are still learning their own roles as well as how to work together with their teammates. Caver for example missed most of the shots he took from both the field and the line against Towson. Is he going to be a 20% shooter this year? Also, how poorly did B.J. shoot in the first 5 - 10 games last season before he got things figured out?

Not basing off two games but the number of games at ODU. Could he have the potential to be a good shooter? Possibly. Does that me he is a good shooter?

If you are basing off of the total number of games he has played at ODU instead of the 2 games thus far this season then you are including yourself among those that you have called out in the past for "not believing that players can improve".

If you are asking me if that (whatever 'that' is) means he is a good shooter, then I would answer that it is too soon this season to tell. I suspect that he will be at or above 30% from 3 by the end of the season, and most likely above.

As someone pointed out, Randy hit 5 of 9 from the 3 point line in the recent exhibition game. In any league, and at any level, that is very strong 3 point shooting in one of only about 4 or 5 games against outside competition that he has played in thus far this season with ODU even if it didn't count in the standings.

Ive never said he cannot improve. Im saying there is no evidence he has so far.

(11-15-2017 03:08 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 02:57 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 02:25 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  

(11-15-2017 02:07 PM)ODU BBALL Wrote:  

(11-14-2017 07:01 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Im not sure if I was playing defense that I would guard Haynes out to the 3 point line if I was defending him. What is his percentage, 25%?

Either your coach would probably end up putting you on the bench, or you would change your coverage. If you were giving him open looks from 3 by not covering him out there, I'm pretty sure he would be shooting much higher than 25% against you.

Besides that, ... you have stated on the boards several times, (I'm paraphrasing here) "people act as if players can't or don't improve from year to year". Two games into this season is much too small of a sample size to make shooting judgements yet regarding how a player will perform this season. They are still learning their own roles as well as how to work together with their teammates. Caver for example missed most of the shots he took from both the field and the line against Towson. Is he going to be a 20% shooter this year? Also, how poorly did B.J. shoot in the first 5 - 10 games last season before he got things figured out?

Not basing off two games but the number of games at ODU. Could he have the potential to be a good shooter? Possibly. Does that me he is a good shooter?

If you are basing off of the total number of games he has played at ODU instead of the 2 games thus far this season then you are including yourself among those that you have called out in the past for "not believing that players can improve".

If you are asking me if that (whatever 'that' is) means he is a good shooter, then I would answer that it is too soon this season to tell. I suspect that he will be at or above 30% from 3 by the end of the season, and most likely above.

As someone pointed out, Randy hit 5 of 9 from the 3 point line in the recent exhibition game. In any league, and at any level, that is very strong 3 point shooting in one of only about 4 or 5 games against outside competition that he has played in thus far this season with ODU even if it didn't count in the standings.

Ive never said he cannot improve. Im saying there is no evidence he has so far.

What about the fact that he is shooting 38% through 3 games?